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    • Which would require a hearing....so the fee would be £255.00
    • When providing a copy of an executed agreement in response to a request under section 78(1) of the Act:   a.     must a creditor provide a photocopy (or other form of complete copy) of the original agreement that was signed by the debtor or at least provide a copy which is derived directly from the original agreement or complete copy thereof? or b.     can a creditor provide a document which is a reconstitution of the original agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself?   It was held that a creditor can satisfy its duty under section 78 by providing a reconstituted version of the executed agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself.   The judge accepted that as a matter of law, section 78 does not itself require any particular explanation as to how the copy was made. However, as a matter of good practice and so as not to mislead the debtor, it is desirable that the creditor should explain that it is providing a reconstituted as opposed to a physical copy of the executed agreement. This will also explain why the copy might otherwise look a little odd. The creditor can also explain in the letter that this procedure is satisfactory under the Act. The judge also provided that the following information needs to be included in the reconstituted copy agreement (assuming of course that it was present in the original):   1.     Heading: Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 2.     Name and address of the debtor 3.     Name and address of the creditor 4.     Cancellation clause applicable to the executed agreement.   All of the above may be provided on a sheet which is separate from the full statement of terms and conditions which also forms part of the reconstituted agreement. The creditor may, however, decide to reconstitute the agreement in a different way so that, for example, the information above is populated electronically onto the same sheet as that which sets out the terms and conditions, or some of them. The judge stated that he did not intend to prescribe the precise form of the reconstituted agreement. The key point is what information it should contain, subject to the point that its format should not be such as to mislead the debtor as to what he agreed to.   The judge also considered whether a statement like the one appearing in the reconstructed application form in Carey referring to the agreement to the terms and conditions "attached" needs to be included in the reconstituted copy. Alternatively if the application form had said "I agree to the terms overleaf", should that statement be included. The judge held that this aspect of the form is not necessary for the purpose of the section 78 copy, although there is nothing to stop a bank from putting it in or indeed from furnishing a copy of the type of application form or signature page that the debtor would have signed, as some banks have done. The statement referring to terms and conditions is not itself prescribed information and the supply of the terms and conditions which were applicable at the time will tell the debtor what he needs to know in terms of the content of what he signed up to, including the presence (or otherwise) of the prescribed terms.   In practical terms what this is likely to mean is that if the creditor chooses to use as the section 78 copy the section 63 copy, which would have been provided to that particular debtor at the time following execution of the agreement, this will be sufficient provided that the information referred to above is supplied. This exercise is not a mere formality. The creditor will need to check carefully that the details of the debtor at the time are correct and that those are the particular terms (including prescribed terms) that he/she agreed to. This is to ensure that it is an honest and accurate copy.   Must a creditor provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (Regulations) as to form, as at the date the agreement was made in order to comply with section 78?   A creditor need not, in complying with section 78, provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Regulations as to form, as at the date the agreement was made.   Must the copy provided under section 78 include the debtor's name and address as at the date when the agreement was made, and if so in what form? The section 78 copy must contain the name and address of the debtor as it was at the time of the execution of the agreement. But the creditor can provide the name and address from whatever source it has of those details. It does not have to take them from the executed agreement itself.     If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, is a copy of the executed agreement as varied, a sufficient copy for the purposes of section 78(1), or must the creditor provide a copy of the original agreement as well?   If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms.     As your agreement is post April 2007  Section 61(1)(a) and 127(3)   Consumer Credit Act 1974 would not apply.   Andy
    • well start a new thread for the court claim.   as for this one i'd await the letter of claim  
    • Useful information...   And....   https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part55
    • nice and ofcourse totally unlawful.   £349.50 is the usual sum RLP try and fleece out of people under some silly civil threats none of goes to the store it all goes in RLP's pocket for their next staff holiday paid for by mugs that fall for their twaddle ignore!!
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Scared2710

Help - Debit Issue

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Hi Im new to this so please forgive me if I have done something wrong. In a nutshell, I had a very bitter marital split 2 years ago and ex wife (who lives with our 3 children) has stayed in the marital home (which is in joint names). We had a joint loan with Sainsburys Bank which has 13k outstanding and a Bank Account with HSBC which is £800 overdrawn. I have always had a good credit history before but HSBC have transferred their debt to Moorcroft (ex-wife didnt tell me about arrears letters - my fault as well as didnt change address) and have been chased by 2 different debt collection agencies for Sainsburys loan. Monthly repayments on that are £270 per month and with maintenance and a historic car loan for her car which I am still paying at £230 per month, I cant afford to meet Sainsburys loan on my own. Ex wife refuses to communicate with me and wont take any responsibility. I know we are both liable but do I have any other options as cant afford to clear all this on my own? Thank you so much for reading and giving advice.

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Hello and welcome to CAG. I'm sorry to hear about your problems and hope we can help you.

 

I'll move your thread to the debt collection forum and leave you a short term link here. The guys there should be able to give you some pointers.

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Car loan for her - her car but loan in your name? Sainsbury's loan and overdraft in both names?

 

Firstly, you two really must get a dialogue going - can you use a trusted third party? In-laws?

 

Joint liability means that they can go for either and/or both of you.

 

The OD is not subject to a CCA process but others presumably are. So:

 

Are the two loans unsecured or secured?

How old are they?

Have the either of the debts been assigned to the DCAs or do they claim to "act on behalf of" the original lender?

Were the two DCAs chasing at the same time?

Who are the DCAs?

Have you corresponded with the DCAs? How?

 

In the meantime: Do not talk to any DCA; communicate in writing only (if you must) and do not sign any letter or document. Remember that a DCA has no authority unless it has bought the debt and even then it cannot act against you upon a whim.

Edited by smouk
Added

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Thank you. Car loan - For her car but in my name (she was self employed at the time). Sainsburys and HSBC Overdraft in both names. Loans are unsecured. Both date back to 2008 - her car loan will be cleared 2013 (up tp date). Sainsburys is 2015 expiry. Wescot and their solicitors are acting on behalf of Sainsburys with an outstanding balance of £13500 (they have offered a reduction already). I asked for copy loan agreements etc from them which they said, in their letter dated 18 October 2012 that they had requested from Sainsburys. To date I havent received (dont they hve to do within a certain time)HSBC have told me (as we have mortgage and I have a credit card with them - both up to date) that they have sold debt to Moorcroft. Moorcroft have sent a letter to ex and myself at my address trying to contact me (first I have heard from them). I have replied in letter (not signed) advising that ex doesnt live there and asking for copies of all correspondence and proof that I owe them anything. I used to work for HSBC and had an excellent credit history but ended up renting due to break up. ex is still not communicating - wont with anyone. She is burying her head in the sand as she (and the children) have a house. Her view is it doesnt matter to her if she gets a CCJ as she already has somewhere to live and wont need credit. Very short sighted I know but she just wont discuss I am 42, never had debt in the past but feel like world is falling in (apologies if that seems an over reaction).

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Well, a CCJ would stop her having a mobile phone on contract and the rate things are going could soon see her paying more for insurance etc.

 

No dialogue with her parents then?

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Her father has passed away. have no dialogue with her mother at all and ex just flatly refuses to communcicate. She takes contracts etc out in current partmers name so quite clever at playing the system (as he has a different address so phone is in his name etc). None of which helps me!

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I honestly don't know how the joint liability would play out amongst the DCAs but if she's not acknowledging anything then they will harass you - if you let them.

 

Insofar as the actual creditors are concerned then their conduct will most likely be determined by their prospects in court were it to come to that. Hopefully one of CAGs legal minds will be able to shed a little light on that.

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Thank you. Is there anything I should do now then? One other thing, presume my credit hisotiry is destroyed now as HSBC have 'defaulted' overdraft.Thank you.

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Would be worth getting a copy of it. Try Noddle.

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