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    • Thanks Andy!!!    Will get it completed and posted out👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
    • Hi,   Having had a PM exchange with Shamrocker (thank you) I've been advised to upload the General Order/Judgement that was sent to me at the end of September.  Can someone (possibly Andy) clarify that I need to complete a WS for my "side of the bargain".   Obviously, I have just received and uploaded the claimant's WS so I suspect I do, but the actual order was "vague".    Many thanks B   General Order & Direction Oct19.pdf
    • Hmm, so.. basically have to rely on the default notice not containing all that it should and the claimant misleading the court for the reason for the application.. and judge lottery : /
    • Which would require a hearing....so the fee would be £255.00
    • When providing a copy of an executed agreement in response to a request under section 78(1) of the Act:   a.     must a creditor provide a photocopy (or other form of complete copy) of the original agreement that was signed by the debtor or at least provide a copy which is derived directly from the original agreement or complete copy thereof? or b.     can a creditor provide a document which is a reconstitution of the original agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself?   It was held that a creditor can satisfy its duty under section 78 by providing a reconstituted version of the executed agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself.   The judge accepted that as a matter of law, section 78 does not itself require any particular explanation as to how the copy was made. However, as a matter of good practice and so as not to mislead the debtor, it is desirable that the creditor should explain that it is providing a reconstituted as opposed to a physical copy of the executed agreement. This will also explain why the copy might otherwise look a little odd. The creditor can also explain in the letter that this procedure is satisfactory under the Act. The judge also provided that the following information needs to be included in the reconstituted copy agreement (assuming of course that it was present in the original):   1.     Heading: Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 2.     Name and address of the debtor 3.     Name and address of the creditor 4.     Cancellation clause applicable to the executed agreement.   All of the above may be provided on a sheet which is separate from the full statement of terms and conditions which also forms part of the reconstituted agreement. The creditor may, however, decide to reconstitute the agreement in a different way so that, for example, the information above is populated electronically onto the same sheet as that which sets out the terms and conditions, or some of them. The judge stated that he did not intend to prescribe the precise form of the reconstituted agreement. The key point is what information it should contain, subject to the point that its format should not be such as to mislead the debtor as to what he agreed to.   The judge also considered whether a statement like the one appearing in the reconstructed application form in Carey referring to the agreement to the terms and conditions "attached" needs to be included in the reconstituted copy. Alternatively if the application form had said "I agree to the terms overleaf", should that statement be included. The judge held that this aspect of the form is not necessary for the purpose of the section 78 copy, although there is nothing to stop a bank from putting it in or indeed from furnishing a copy of the type of application form or signature page that the debtor would have signed, as some banks have done. The statement referring to terms and conditions is not itself prescribed information and the supply of the terms and conditions which were applicable at the time will tell the debtor what he needs to know in terms of the content of what he signed up to, including the presence (or otherwise) of the prescribed terms.   In practical terms what this is likely to mean is that if the creditor chooses to use as the section 78 copy the section 63 copy, which would have been provided to that particular debtor at the time following execution of the agreement, this will be sufficient provided that the information referred to above is supplied. This exercise is not a mere formality. The creditor will need to check carefully that the details of the debtor at the time are correct and that those are the particular terms (including prescribed terms) that he/she agreed to. This is to ensure that it is an honest and accurate copy.   Must a creditor provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (Regulations) as to form, as at the date the agreement was made in order to comply with section 78?   A creditor need not, in complying with section 78, provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Regulations as to form, as at the date the agreement was made.   Must the copy provided under section 78 include the debtor's name and address as at the date when the agreement was made, and if so in what form? The section 78 copy must contain the name and address of the debtor as it was at the time of the execution of the agreement. But the creditor can provide the name and address from whatever source it has of those details. It does not have to take them from the executed agreement itself.     If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, is a copy of the executed agreement as varied, a sufficient copy for the purposes of section 78(1), or must the creditor provide a copy of the original agreement as well?   If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms.     As your agreement is post April 2007  Section 61(1)(a) and 127(3)   Consumer Credit Act 1974 would not apply.   Andy
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MBNA PPI claim rejected, now on to OFT?

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Good afternoon,

 

I'm after a bit of advice regarding a PPI claim with MBNA.

 

I took out a credit card with BT back in 2008, which was later bought by MBNA, I was sold PPI at the time having no idea what I was in for and being constantly reassured by the sales woman that it wouldn't cost my anything and was just in case.

I was self employed at the time and as such was not even eligible for it.

The saleswoman was very persistent and pushy.

 

I contacted MBNA and submitted a PPI claims enquiry they pointed me to. Yesterday I received a letter from them to say I'd been unsuccessful in my claim and they cited what sound like quite a few bogus reasoning's.

 

I've included an excerpt from the letter below.

" - you took the credit card on 30 April 2008;

- you were sold PPI over the telephone on 10 May 2008;

- at the time of the sale, you stated that you had been employed as a self employed IT Consultant.

 

Unfortunately we do not have a recording of the sales call. However, we have been able to review the information that our associates where required to give you at the time, from which it is clear that your sale was made on a non advised basis. In other words, it was not personally recommended to you.

 

You have said that the policy was not suitable for your needs. Since no advice was given our associates were not required to ask whether you had any existing insurance in place, collate any information about your demands, needs and circumstances and nor did we have a duty to ensure that the policy was suitable for you. However, we were required to give you information which was adequate for you to make an informed decision about whether or not you wished to purchase the policy.

 

The information that our associates were required to give you at the time of the sale required them to set out the terms and conditions of the policy, eligibility details, the main exclusions and details of the 30 day cancellation period. In addition, you were sent a Policy Summary and full Policy terms and conditions after the call. The Policy Summary set out the eligibility for the policy, the benefits of the policy, the main exclusions and the cancellation terms. The full Policy Document provide further comprehensive information.

As such, I consider it more likely than not that your information needs were met.

 

You have also said that you felt pressured to purchase PPI. However, at the time of the sale, our associates were required to inform you that the policy was optional tand to gain your consent. they were required to as you "Can I confirm that you are happy for me to add this to your account today and that you agree...". I therefore take the view that our associate would have made you aware that the policy was optional and was being added to the account.

 

you have made allegations about weakness in our disclosures about key features of the policy, including details relating to the cost and benefits of the policy. In making a decision on your complaint, I have considered whether, had all the key features been fully explained, your decision to take out the policy would have been affected, based on your circumstances at the time.

 

After considering all of the information I have about your complaint, I note that you would still have received significant benefit from this policy in the event of disability or unemployment, as the benefit more than covered your minimum payments each month. Furthermore your sick pay and other benefits would not have prevented you from making a claim under the policy and there were no other terms, limitations or exclusions which were likely to have prevented you from making a claim.

 

...

 

This is our final response to your complaint. If you remain dissatisfied, you now have the right to refer your complaint to the financial ombudsman service, which you must do within six months of the date of this letter..."

 

Where to from here, OFT? Do I have a case?

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Standard drivel from them.

 

You are perfectly entitled to challenge the yourself....if you can put up a decent challenge they may capitulate and there will be no need to go to fos.

 

Have a read of Appendix 1 of the FSA handbook here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?305682-FSA-Handbook

 

There will be some useful information in there to help you with your challenge letter.


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