What happens after a Court Liability order?

[larold]

Just seeking some information regarding a court liability order that six of us have against our name dating to an unpaid council tax bill in 2005.

 

A bailiffs has all of our names but at the moment is only trying to find me,

(and not particularly successfully, so I'm not worried there)

 

but I had heard that the time you want to start worrying is when the Bailiffs pass it back to the council and then the council take it on to the next step.

 

Can this involve criminal charges being brought?

 

Any advice gratefully received...

 

L.

[ploddertom]

If the LO has the 6 different names on it then they may enforce against any person on that list either as a whole or individually

- in other words they can make 1 person pay for the whole debt.

 

If they are chancing their arm against yourself it may mean they have not been able to track the others down or they see you as the most likely target.

 

If for some reason they fail to elicit any of the hard earned from you and the others are still out of it they may return it to the Council for further action.

 

This may take several courses including but not limited to Attachment of Earnings/Benefits, Charging Order, Bankruptcy

or a Committal Hearing where you will be ordered to appear to explain why the debt has gone unpaid

- the ultimate sanction for this is to be imprisoned.

 

Please be aware the debt will never be statute barred.

[letsmakeamark]

I would have thought it is barred.

[dx100uk]

CTAX debts sadly cannot be SB'ed.

 

 

the key here is the date of the LO.

 

the OP needs to contact the council and ask:

 

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - ask them if they permit their agents to subcontract as it appears that the bailiff is a self-employed bailiff

 

 

the LO may well have 'expired'

 

dx

[larold]

Good advice thanks, will make that call... Can you elaborate on 'expired'? What that means exactly and what implications it has... I take it it doesn't actually expire just by the fact you've placed it in '...'!

[ploddertom]

Providing the Council obtain a Liability Order within 6 years of the CTAX being due then it can never be Statute Barred. Even if they have let 6 years or more elapse then although it is still not SB'd it is not expected for them to enforce against you for it.

[larold]

Right, so if left unpaid then we can guarantee that at some point all of us will be charged in court and receive a conviction? Sorry just clarifying but it's pretty handy to know.

[brassnecked]

Right, so if left unpaid then we can guarantee that at some point all of us will be charged in court and receive a conviction? Sorry just clarifying but it's pretty handy to know.

It is NOT a conviction, it is a Liability Order. and is a strange animal as it is dealt with in a civil manner, but in a criminal jurisdiction.

[larold]

Ah right, I understand we all have Liability Orders against us and these don't ever expire.

 

But what will happen down the line if this debt goes unpaid - will it result in a criminal conviction further down the line?

 

Does anyone have any information on previous cases?

 

Appreciating all the information.

[dx100uk]

no its a civel debt.

 

nothing at all criminal about it.

 

debtors prison ceased to exist in the 19th cent.

 

dx

[brassnecked]

Despite what a skanky bailiff may claim, prison for council tax is at the end of a long road of wilful non payment, you could go to prison much quicker for non payment of a of TV Licence, fine as that is criminal. In fact TV Licence fines were the biggest reason women especially single mothers were sent to prison in the 1980's and 1990's (CAB data)

[letsmakeamark]

Right, so if left unpaid then we can guarantee that at some point all of us will be charged in court and receive a conviction? Sorry just clarifying but it's pretty handy to know.

 

 

Funny thing is the council usually in hire a court room at the maggies court and all that happens is that the maggies are presented with a wad of paper with peoples names on it and they just stamp it and sign it. Liability orders gained. I was at one hearing watching this and in a space of 10 minutes the council had liability order to the tune of 290k.

[brassnecked]

Funny thing is the council usually in hire a court room at the maggies court and all that happens is that the maggies are presented with a wad of paper with peoples names on it and they just stamp it and sign it. Liability orders gained. I was at one hearing watching this and in a space of 10 minutes the council had liability order to the tune of 290k.

Exactly, if the truth be known the liability order is a Kangaroo system with the magistrates a rubber stamp operation the whole procedure from the automated council referral for LO, to the magistrates most likely a breach of parts of Articles 5, 6, 7 and 8 in how it operates. of course a Nelson's i

s turned to the iniquity of the whole charade.

[Old Cogger]

Magistrate for Hire that is, like the whole system = fraudulent.

[brassnecked]

Magistrate for Hire that is, like the whole system = fraudulent.

 

Exactly, and don't get me started on the Northampton Bulk Kangaroo County Court Clearing Centre, or the Kangaroo TEC, another con :censored::censored:

[Old Cogger]

No: - as is I would go on about the Northampton crook sorry (Bulk) court whereby( garbage centre) where a company does not have to submit the documents to rely on for their so called cases in the hope that peeps will be too scared or not know what to do, as if I would even mention the subject of them>?????????

[outlawla]

Have you got what it takes to become a Magistrate?

 

Questions & Answers

 

Q1. I've been told I can become a Magistrate without any qualifications or legal training, is this true?

 

A. Absolutely! As a Magistrate you'll not be required to involve yourself in any aspect of the law.

 

 

Q2. I'm worried that my lack of legal knowledge will cause me to make a wrong decision, how can I be reassured that I won't?

 

A. You will not make wrong decisions. You will be given clear instructions of how you are to determine the case in advance of the hearing. Your job is to appear like you're considering the evidence. You will be effectively playing a role in a theatre production.

 

 

Q3. I'm concerned that I may be required to deliver a guilty verdict when the defendant is so obviously innocent. How would I convince attendees in the courtroom that the process is fair and just.

 

A. As a trainee Magistrate you would have plenty of opportunities to gain experience in this area. You would be assigned a mentor who would accompany you on many cases before you were allowed to go solo.

 

 

Q4. I would love to become a Magistrate just to have the JP suffix after my name. But I consider having to sit on serious cases far too big a price to pay for this privilege. What is the most serious trial a Magistrate gets involved in?

 

A. You will normally only get involved with minor offences which entail bulk processing like TV licences, Council Tax liability orders or in instances where motorists forget to submit details to the DVLA.

 

 

Q5. I understand that in all Magistrate court cases the verdict has all ready been determined before the hearing. Why is the charade necessary (the court's involvement) when there is no decision to be made?

 

A. You are quite correct. It is all a charade, but there are procedures laid down in law which need to be followed. As a Magistrate your function will normally be to attend for "conveyor style" prosecutions, where secondary legislation has been devised for the purpose of processing defendants in bulk – guaranteeing a healthy revenue source from the process.

[Old Cogger]

About sums it up. the Clerk of the Court issues what you must do, oopppssss advises you!

[larold]

So I guess no one actually knows what might happen? It's strange as I'm guessing it must have happened a number of times over the years.

[ploddertom]

So I guess no one actually knows what might happen? It's strange as I'm guessing it must have happened a number of times over the years.

 

It's not strange at all. Council Tax is one of the anomalies to the Magistrates Court in being a civil case & not criminal, at the same time no record is made on your Credit History about the debt. The Council have a range of measures they can use against you and/or any other listed on the Liability Order - it's called joint & several liabilty. If you or any of the others have been tracked down and refuse to pay anything towards the debt you may eventually be summonsed to the Magistrates again for a Committal Hearing for you to explain why it has gone unpaid. If the Magistrates believe you are wilfully refusing to pay then a term of imprisonment will be inevitable - search Google for examples. Your best bet is to make regular payments in the interim and if you know where the others are I would recommend contacting them to make a contribution. The debt will never go away.

[larold]

That's great, thank you. Exactly the post I was after. I guess the only real unknown is the timescale that the council wil take further and more serious action. Thanks for all the advice.

[brassnecked]

That ploddertom is the best advice for this situation, pay something and try to track the others down, and contact them to get them contributing also.