From 3/12/12, ESA WRAG claimants can be mandated to the Work Programme...

[rainbo]

...or face sanctions.

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/work-programme-memo-082.pdf

 

This is not good news. Too ill to work means you're too ill to work. Being made to work for your benefits WILL tip people over the edge.

 

 

More news here as well...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9683811/Prepare-for-work-or-lose-your-benefits-long-term-sick-are-told.html

[estellyn]

Don't you just love the way they call it an 'opportunity'.

[Carole111]

National Insurance was a CONTRACT between the people and government. It covers living, housing and health needs. Like car insurance they cannot add on later 'amendments' without people's individual CONSENT. Government are breaking this contract. Therefore it is not only illegal it is UNLAWFUL. Refuse. Don't sign ANYTHING. This will be considered as consent. Government are our elected servants not our in house tyrants.

[livvyp]

National Insurance was a CONTRACT between the people and government. It covers living, housing and health needs. Like car insurance they cannot add on later 'amendments' without people's individual CONSENT. Government are breaking this contract. Therefore it is not only illegal it is UNLAWFUL. Refuse. Don't sign ANYTHING. This will be considered as consent. Government are our elected servants not our in house tyrants.

If you refuse to sign, what about the benefits that will certainly be stopped?

[estellyn]

My advice would be get a copy of the ATOS assessment and your scores. You cannot be made to do anything you have scored points on. Use the report to deflect any inappropriate placements.

[Nystagmite]

I wonder what would happen to people like me - part of the reason why I'm on ESA is because of how inaccessible the work programme has been for me...

[fightingback99]

With the Work Programme success rate bing a miserly 3.5%, can't see what they hope to achieve here other than cause a lot of problems and stress for all concerned.

 

Unless it's just to enable them to find a way to stop paying WRAG ESA through thousands of sanctions, as they're now doing with the JSA ?

[Dilizjo]

Found this this morning:(

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/work-programme-memo-082.pdf

 

"It is worth noting that there is a greater emphasis throughout guidance is on ensuring that the activity identified is appropriate for the participants health condition or disability and being aware of their barriers to work, including ill health/disability and any reasonable adjustment requirements when organising an activity with an employer."

 

The activities identified as appropriate and reasonable adjustment requirements who are they kidding:?::?:, will they have full knowledge of all the physical, mental and fluctuating health problems that they are are going to deem curable via this new "let's get them all off benefits" idea:mad2:

[Zonker]

' This will mean if a Work Programme provider identifies a suitable participant and ensures the work placement is of community benefit '

rough translation anyone who can breathe can be mandated into a work placement that we couldnt care less about. I can see that in the future that because they have forced into slave labour ESA is gonna get denied.

[Zonker]

Sanctions, pure and simple imho

 

Work Programe Providers decide who and what job. Hate to think how an advisor can with no medical qualifications wil tackle a competent risk assessment.

[pastanutty]

what about people who receive the care element of esa wrag ?

would I as my wifes carer have to go with her to a slave(work) placement ?

I can't see the provider being too happy with that...

[eskimoman]

It's a very nasty catch 22 situation.

 

If people take the work programmes they prove they can look for work.

If they refuse because they are sick they lose money.

This is an awful thing to happen and should never have been allowed to happen.

 

In my own case I have MS, I can barely walk far without needing help or some sort of motorized mobility (which I don't have) on top of this I have hypertension and mental health issues and cannot deal with pressure or crowds which can trigger panic attacks and in most cases takes my blood pressure to dangerous levels.

 

I really hope that this gets sorted out, it's bad enough worrying about assessments, now we have this as well. Are they just trying to make people more sick with worry than they already are?

[debt4get]

this as usual is about the simple distribution of money...the providers will be paid a large amount of money for taking wrag claimants, and then farming them out to big business for slave labour.....on the off chance that you or they manage to get you into a nice 'unsuitable' job they will then be given more huge handouts of public money...only real problem is the public done realise what is actually going on...they just believe the propaganda that we are all lazy useless layabouts fiddling the system....if only!!

[osdset]

I received the official letter outlining the new sanctions from the DWP on Monday, this is all about the government responding to lobbying by the pimps, they went cap in hand to the DWP complaining that they weren't getting enough referrals of ESA claimants, (the £13.000 they would get for a successful sustained placement has nothing to do with this of course) so the government made the WP mandatory, now they have added punitive sanctions for non compliance.

 

This is punishment for claiming ESA, for being long term sick or disabled, it's all well and good stating that work activity will be within a persons capabilities, but who decides? A jumped up ex used car dealer? Someone who's last job was selling double glazing? It won't be long before the ambulance chasing law firms are on to this, and rightly so, the pimps may well take a different view when they are having to pay out compensation claims left right and centre.

[osdset]

' This will mean if a Work Programme provider identifies a suitable participant and ensures the work placement is of community benefit '

rough translation anyone who can breathe can be mandated into a work placement that we couldnt care less about. I can see that in the future that because they have forced into slave labour ESA is gonna get denied.

 

This is a worry, it's the perfect excuse to deny a claim following a reassessment on the grounds that a claimant managed to sustain 30 hours per week in a charity shop, forgetting of course that due to punitive sanctions the claimant had no real choice in the matter, ESA claimants will be between a rock and a hard place with no way out, it's disgraceful.

[honeybee13]

Thank you to rainbo and dilizjo for posting this worrying development. I've merged two threads on the same topic, to make things simpler.

 

My best, HB

[Zonker]

equalities act 2010 section 55 / 56 i think is a worthwhile study. section 56 (2) :

 

(2)The provision of an employment service includes

 

(a)the provision of vocational training;

 

(b)the provision of vocational guidance;

 

©making arrangements for the provision of vocational training or vocational guidance;

 

(d)the provision of a service for finding employment for persons;

 

(e)the provision of a service for supplying employers with persons to do work ;

 

(f)the provision of a service in pursuance of arrangements made under section 2 of the Employment and Training Act 1973 (functions of the Secretary of State relating to employment);

 

(g)the provision of a service in pursuance of arrangements made or a direction given under section 10 of that Act (careers services);

 

(h)the exercise of a function in pursuance of arrangements made under section 2(3) of the Enterprise and New Towns (Scotland) Act 1990 (functions of Scottish Enterprise, etc. relating to employment);

 

(i)an assessment related to the conferment of a relevant qualification within the meaning of section 53 above (except in so far as the assessment is by the qualifications body which confers the qualification).

 

I think that section covers Work programme providers , the provision of a service for supplying employers with persons to do work and section 55 covers what they cant do. 55(4)(b):

 

An employment service-provider (A) must not victimise a person (B)

as to the terms on which A offers to provide the service to B

 

victimise being section 27. In essence doing a protected act, which in terms of this section is refusing to do a placement because of its unsuitability (reasonable adjustments could be a reason) and the Work programme provider says we will recommend a sanction.

 

Sorry for this lengthy quoting, but i think its all relevant.

[down'n'out]

...or face sanctions.

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/work-programme-memo-082.pdf

 

This is not good news. Too ill to work means you're too ill to work. Being made to work for your benefits WILL tip people over the edge.

I have not seen any change (yet) as to those on ESA WRAG who can be mandated to the Work programme. You can only currently be mandated to work programme if you are on ESA WRAG(ir) with prognosis of 3-6 months. Has anyone seen a change to that policy?

 

 

 

More news here as well...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9683811/Prepare-for-work-or-lose-your-benefits-long-term-sick-are-told.html

Those are not yet on ESA, they are in wait period for WCA.

They will be expected to maintain regular contact with Jobcentres and to look for employment opportunities while awaiting the assessment of their fitness for work.

 

 

From the info I have seen, I see that they want to push those who have been classed as able to return to work in

I am wondering if there is a way to appeal the WCA prognosis?

 

Those applying for ESA are going to have to attend JC, as it appears the government believes many are applying for ESA simply to avoid JC for possibly 13 weeks or more, then dropping that claim before WCA. We already see those on ESA WRAG have to attend WFI, but it is at the discretion of advisor if the appointments need to continue.

Edited November 29, 2012 by down'n'out

[Zonker]

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/supplying-dwp/what-we-buy/welfare-to-work-services/provider-guidance/work-programme-provider.shtml

 

notice the update 26/11/2012 on the claiment groups, which then goes to show from annex A that esa (ir) 12 months mandatory.

 

Mandatory ESA participants

15.

Mandatory ESA participants will fall into one of the following groups:

•

WP ESA (IR) WRAG 3/6 Mth Mandatory – Required entry from the point at which the outcome of the claimant’s Work Capability Assessment (WCA) is known: ESA Income Related (IR) WRAG participants who as a result of their WCA have been given a prognosis of either 3 or 6 months. Participants with a 3 month prognosis will be required to enter the WP from their WCA result

•

WP ESA (IR) WRAG 3 to 6 Mth Mandatory ExIB – Required entry from the point at which the outcome of the claimant’s WCA is known: ESA Income Related (IR) WRAG participants who have previously received incapacity benefits and as a result of their WCA have been given a prognosis of 3/6 months will be required to enter the WP from their WCA result

•

WP ESA (IR) WRAG 3/6Mth Stock – Mandatory entry entry: Existing WRAG ESA claimants (Where the date of a participant’s initial WCA decision was prior to the end date for referrals to Pathways to Work) who receive Income Related (IR) ESA, have been given a prognosis of either 3 or 6 months.

 

• WP ESA Mandatory (IR) WRAG 12Mth – Required entry from the point at which the outcome of the claimant’s WCA is known: ESA Income Related (IR) WRAG participants who as a result of their WCA have been given a prognosis of 12 months will be required to enter the WP from their WCA result.

 

• WP ESA (IR) WRAG 12 Mth Mandatory ExIB – Required entry from the point at which the outcome of the claimant’s WCA is known: ESA Income Related (IR) WRAG participants who have previously received incapacity benefits and as a result of their WCA have been given a prognosis of 12 months will be required to enter the WP from their WCA result.

 

pages 8/9 from chapter 2

Sorry for weird formatting, i cant seem to sort it

 

I think from what i can see, those on ESA (ir) with 12month or less can be mandated

 

chapter 6:

Do not ask the participant for a good reason to determine whether or not to raise a WP08. You have no option but to raise a doubt once the participant has failed to participate in a mandated activity, irrespective of whether or not they have offered an explanation afterwards. The LM DM will consider the reasons given and must make the good reason decision

Reconsideration of mandated activity for ESA participants ESA participants may request a reconsideration of any activity they have been mandated to undertake. Where they do so you must look again at the activity and take into account why the participant does not feel the activity is appropriate, reconsider if the activity remains reasonable and appropriate in the participant’s circumstances.

Requests for a reconsideration should be considered as soon as possible with your decision being notified to the participant in writing. There is no specific form/template for this process.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Zonker

[worried33]

My advice would be get a copy of the ATOS assessment and your scores. You cannot be made to do anything you have scored points on. Use the report to deflect any inappropriate placements.

 

been waiting for this now for weeks.

 

Looks like I need to do one of those thingys again where they have to send everything on file, thats the only way I have ever managed to get hold of ATOS reports.

 

“Individuals who are too ill to work will not be forced into a job, but for the first time, we will work with them to help them get a job when they are ready.”

 

Yet when they are not assessed yet how do they know what category they fall into ridicolous.

 

And for WRAG it makes a mockery, so now WRAG is officialy the same as JSA just a bit more money.

Edited November 29, 2012 by worried33

[Zonker]

worried33 its called a subject access request.

[worried33]

yeah thats what I will probably have to send.

[Zonker]

http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_organisations/data_protection/the_guide/principle_6/access_to_personal_data.aspx

 

ico information on SAR

[down'n'out]

notice the update 26/11/2012 on the claiment groups,

 

Yes I found that update. (I normally only check at the end of each week.)

 

So, due to the WP complaining, and the WCA not finding enough to (possibly)return to work within 6 months, the government change the entry point for ESA WRAG(ir) to

[Zonker]

down it also says that there WILL be an update on 3/12/2012 which is the date sanctions for ESA are brought into 'line' with JSA. Who knows what else they will decide to reword.