Car deal gone bad...! claim form received - help

[Help_!]

Hello Everyone,

 

Last weekend we purchased a new car,

all was going fine until the dealer rang up requesting more money for an issue he has found with the car we had part exchanged.

 

We were totally unaware of any issues and had the car checked out before taking it to him (as you will see in the emails below).

 

He's now started to turn the screws cc'ing his solicitor in emails.

 

I would really appreciate some views on this case, am I right to push back and where do I stand.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

The first communication was a phone call, so no evidence of that,

 

however email number one is the response from us to the dealer, email two is his response this evening to that email.

 

Emails below;....

 

 

EMAIL 1

Dear XXXX,

 

I am writing following our telephone conversation yesterday when you asked me to pay £500 towards the cost of repairs to the gear box of the Honda Jazz

that you took as part exchange for the Audi that I purchased from you on Saturday 24 November.

 

My position on this matter is;

I had no awareness of an issue at the time of part exchange.

I took reasonable steps to ensure that the vehicle was delivered in a clean and roadworthy condition for your viewing and testing, prior to completing the paperwork and transaction.

 

As you had a good look around the car, started it and manoeuvred it, I had reason to believe this was your standard process

and you were happy with the car, as we went ahead and completed the paperwork.

 

I took the decision to part exchange the car with a professional tradesman to avoid this kind of confusion, as I believed that a lower, but fair price would be offered for the car as it is seen and tested. I agreed to purchase the Audi on the basis of achieving £2,000 in part exchange value for the Honda.

 

I hope you understand that I am unable to take responsibility for any issues you feel have now arisen with the car. Therefore I will not be making any further payment beyond that which is stated and settled in our contract dated 24th November 2012.

 

During our conversation yesterday, you stated that you haven't sent off the warranty documentation

and wouldn't until you had heard from me as to whether I would agree to pay the £500 for the repairs to the Honda.

 

Should you choose not to purchase the warranty, I believe that this would be a breach of the contract that we entered into on Saturday 24th November

and any warranty claims will become your responsibility under that contract which states the car is supplied with 12 months warranty.

 

I trust that this puts an end to this matter. I would like to thank you for otherwise making the purchase of a new car a less stressful experience. I believe you are a good man operating a good business and I will not hesitate in recommending you to friends and family looking to purchase Audi's in the future.

 

All the best for you and your family.

Kind regards,

XXXXXXXX

 

 

 

 

EMAIL 2;

 

Dear XXXXXXXX

 

Without Prejudice

 

Thank you for your email dated the 27th of November 2012.

I am extremely disappointed with your stance on the matter and wish to put on the record the following as I believe you have been dishonest in your dealing with me for the following reasons:

 

1. You never brought the part exchange car for me to see on Thursday the 22nd of November 2012, so I had no chance of seeing and testing the vehicle.

2. When you decided to purchase the Audi A4 from me you said you had part exchange vehicle which was in good condition and no mention was made of any mechanical problems.

3. When you came to pick up the Audi on Saturday, you wanted to test drive the Audi and you were happy with the way it performed.

4. The only experience I had with driving your vehicle was maneuvering about 12 inches in my driveway in order to get the vehicle you have purchased out for you.

5. The reason I did not take your Honda Jazz for a full test drive was that you gave me your word that it was in good mechanical order and no mention was made about the gearbox at any time.

6. When you left, about 10 minutes later I moved your car to my compound and found that it was not running as it should have been. I called you immediately to discuss and you denied any knowledge of a problem.

7. I said I would contact you on the Monday the 26th of November 2012 after I had a chance for my mechanic to see it.

8. After my mechanic checked it, he said the 1st and 2nd tooth in the gearbox had broken off and that is why there was a noise. He also said to me that even the most inexperienced motorist would have noticed there was a problem.

9. You also told me that you had the car checked by a mechanic before you took it to me, which I find unbelievable as if there was not any problem why would you want a mechanic to check it over, especially as you were going to part exchange it. You also said to me that he did not test drive your vehicle, and again in my opinion if you were checking it for safety reasons he would have test driven it and told you there was a problem.

 

In my opinion you were fully aware there was a problem, especially after a long drive from Cornwall, you would have noticed the noise from the gearbox. I am disgusted that you have not been honest with me and have instructed my solicitor to deal with the matter. Furthermore the repairs have come to £700.00, which is higher than the £500.00 originally quoted.

 

I have put a hold on the warranty until this dispute is resolved. Also my solicitor will also be requiring the details of your mechanic if we need to obtain obtain any clarification from him.

 

I am an honest motor trader and pride my business on principles and do good by my customers, however if people are unfair with me, I will pursue my rights and will be prepared to go to court in order to get a resolution.

 

Please advise within the next 24 hours on how you wish to proceed as my solicitor is awaiting my instructions.

 

Yours sincerely

 

XXXXXXXXXX

[AndyOrch]

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

Thread moved to General Motoring Issues forum.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Crapstone]

Hello Everyone,

 

Last weekend we purchased a new car, all was going fine until the dealer rang up requesting more money for an issue he has found with the car we had part exchanged. We were totally unaware of any issues and had the car checked out before taking it to him (as you will see in the emails below). He's now started to turn the screws cc'ing his solicitor in emails.

 

I would really appreciate some views on this case, am I right to push back and where do I stand.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

The first communication was a phone call, so no evidence of that, however email number one is the response from us to the dealer, email two is his response this evening to that email.

 

Emails below;....

 

 

EMAIL 1

Dear XXXX,

 

I am writing following our telephone conversation yesterday when you asked me to pay £500 towards the cost of repairs to the gear box of the Honda Jazz that you took as part exchange for the Audi that I purchased from you on Saturday 24 November.

 

My position on this matter is; I had no awareness of an issue at the time of part exchange. I took reasonable steps to ensure that the vehicle was delivered in a clean and roadworthy condition for your viewing and testing, prior to completing the paperwork and transaction. As you had a good look around the car, started it and manoeuvred it, I had reason to believe this was your standard process and you were happy with the car, as we went ahead and completed the paperwork.

 

I took the decision to part exchange the car with a professional tradesman to avoid this kind of confusion, as I believed that a lower, but fair price would be offered for the car as it is seen and tested. I agreed to purchase the Audi on the basis of achieving £2,000 in part exchange value for the Honda.

 

I hope you understand that I am unable to take responsibility for any issues you feel have now arisen with the car. Therefore I will not be making any further payment beyond that which is stated and settled in our contract dated 24th November 2012.

 

During our conversation yesterday, you stated that you haven't sent off the warranty documentation and wouldn't until you had heard from me as to whether I would agree to pay the £500 for the repairs to the Honda. Should you choose not to purchase the warranty, I believe that this would be a breach of the contract that we entered into on Saturday 24th November and any warranty claims will become your responsibility under that contract which states the car is supplied with 12 months warranty.

 

I trust that this puts an end to this matter. I would like to thank you for otherwise making the purchase of a new car a less stressful experience. I believe you are a good man operating a good business and I will not hesitate in recommending you to friends and family looking to purchase Audi's in the future.

 

All the best for you and your family.

Kind regards,

XXXXXXXX

 

 

 

 

EMAIL 2;

 

Dear XXXXXXXX

 

Without Prejudice

 

Thank you for your email dated the 27th of November 2012.

I am extremely disappointed with your stance on the matter and wish to put on the record the following as I believe you have been dishonest in your dealing with me for the following reasons:

 

1. You never brought the part exchange car for me to see on Thursday the 22nd of November 2012, so I had no chance of seeing and testing the vehicle.

2. When you decided to purchase the Audi A4 from me you said you had part exchange vehicle which was in good condition and no mention was made of any mechanical problems.

3. When you came to pick up the Audi on Saturday, you wanted to test drive the Audi and you were happy with the way it performed.

4. The only experience I had with driving your vehicle was maneuvering about 12 inches in my driveway in order to get the vehicle you have purchased out for you.

5. The reason I did not take your Honda Jazz for a full test drive was that you gave me your word that it was in good mechanical order and no mention was made about the gearbox at any time.

6. When you left, about 10 minutes later I moved your car to my compound and found that it was not running as it should have been. I called you immediately to discuss and you denied any knowledge of a problem.

7. I said I would contact you on the Monday the 26th of November 2012 after I had a chance for my mechanic to see it.

8. After my mechanic checked it, he said the 1st and 2nd tooth in the gearbox had broken off and that is why there was a noise. He also said to me that even the most inexperienced motorist would have noticed there was a problem.

9. You also told me that you had the car checked by a mechanic before you took it to me, which I find unbelievable as if there was not any problem why would you want a mechanic to check it over, especially as you were going to part exchange it. You also said to me that he did not test drive your vehicle, and again in my opinion if you were checking it for safety reasons he would have test driven it and told you there was a problem.

 

In my opinion you were fully aware there was a problem, especially after a long drive from Cornwall, you would have noticed the noise from the gearbox. I am disgusted that you have not been honest with me and have instructed my solicitor to deal with the matter. Furthermore the repairs have come to £700.00, which is higher than the £500.00 originally quoted.

 

I have put a hold on the warranty until this dispute is resolved. Also my solicitor will also be requiring the details of your mechanic if we need to obtain obtain any clarification from him.

 

I am an honest motor trader and pride my business on principles and do good by my customers, however if people are unfair with me, I will pursue my rights and will be prepared to go to court in order to get a resolution.

 

Please advise within the next 24 hours on how you wish to proceed as my solicitor is awaiting my instructions.

 

Yours sincerely

 

XXXXXXXXXX

 

 

It's up to them to to check the trade-in as you are a consumer and not a trader. It's a case of buyer beware and they are the ones that have the experience for that regardless of if you had it checked. They are a trader and despite any excuse they are in a higher position to check the car you gave them before releasing the one you purchased. It's up to them to check it before giving a px price.

 

If you purchased the car with a warranty they still have to honour it dispute or no dispute. I'd have a word with your local Trading Standards. The way their letter is phrased, without being there, it seems as though they are dealing away from premises.

 

You've driven the car a seemingly long way and you couldn't / wouldn't do that with a serious fault and one that could develop at any time. I'd write back and say they had ample opportunity to test the car before agreeing to release the A4. What they schedule with their mechanics is of no concern to you and neither is the acceptance of your vehicle as a px in good faith and as seen. They are talking rubbish so treat it as such.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Crapstone

[dx100uk]

agreed

 

little fleecers

 

dx

[Help_!]

Thanks for the feedback. Now I just need to formulate a reply and look forward to the solicitors letter.

 

Anyone with further advise on tackling the issue would be much appreciated.

[sailor sam]

Thanks for the feedback. Now I just need to formulate a reply and look forward to the solicitors letter.

 

Anyone with further advise on tackling the issue would be much appreciated.

 

I wouldn't bother. Wait to see what the solicitor's letter states. They have no case to pursue although you may if the warranty isn't applied for and you have any problems with the Audi.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Crapstone]

I'd just put:

 

Dear Sir,

 

I am quite aware of my consumer rights and of trading regulations. My stance remains the same and I have informed Trading Standards, who will pass it to their Home Authority in your area.

 

Any further communication should be put in writing to my address and not via email.

[raydetinu]

Agree, they have no case, deal done.

they could of tested it before signing and accepting yours.

[Help_!]

UPDATE

 

Hello Again,

 

It appears he is very persistent and following some communication back and forth, we have just received court papers. this has spooked the mrs somewhat as it states he want's £900 plus costs.

 

We both have legal advise through work and i'm not sure how accurate this is, but they suggest he may win the case. It seems very conflicting with nobody saying either way if we stand a good chance of winning this.

 

Further development comes in the fact we made an offer for 50% of the final cost (£700) at £350, however he said no, but would accept £500. we agreed the £500 just to get rid of the issue, but then , upon checking we he still wasn't going to honour the 12 months warranty he gave us when we purchased the car. He said he wanted £600 to reinstate the warranty. I'm sick to the back teeth of this cowboy and have said no to my mrs making anymore offers.

 

Please help guide us on this.

 

Thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

If the car is as bad as the dealer says it was and on the balance of probablity it is thought that you knew of the problem, then I suspect that you would lose.

 

It is just a case of what the £900 is based on. They will need to provide to the court and yourself, how they have arrived at this amount.

[steampowered]

What do the court papers say? I assume you have received a claim form? What is the basis of his claim?

 

In the email, the trader suggests (1) you told him the car was in good mechanical order and (2) you knew there was a problem with the gearbox. If he can convince the court of these two facts then you would lose - telling someone a car is in good mechanical condition if you know there is a problem would be a 'fraudulent misrepresentation' entitling the trader to all his losses. Is this the route he has gone down in the court papers? If so, did you know or suspect there was a problem with the gearbox? Why did you get the car checked out by a mechanic before the sale and did the mechanic provide you with a written report?

[Surfer01]

The dealer specifically deals and trades in motor vehicles and it is expected that they would have a reasonable knowledge of the trade and do the necessary checks before agreeing a trade in price. If you traded in a vehicle and the dealer then discovered in was in far better condition than you described, would they phone you and offer you a higher price? I think the dealer would come off second best in a court case as they had the opportunity to examine the car prior to do the exchange. The fact that they did not is of no consequence to the OP.

[steampowered]

The dealer specifically deals and trades in motor vehicles and it is expected that they would have a reasonable knowledge of the trade and do the necessary checks before agreeing a trade in price. If you traded in a vehicle and the dealer then discovered in was in far better condition than you described, would they phone you and offer you a higher price? I think the dealer would come off second best in a court case as they had the opportunity to examine the car prior to do the exchange. The fact that they did not is of no consequence to the OP.

 

Unfortunately, there is some case law on this point which is not helpful to the Op. I don't mean to sound negative Op just needs to be aware of the risks if the trader can convince a court that the Op said the car was in good mechanical condition when he knew it was not. Wikipedia says as follows:

 

In the leading case, Redgrave v Hurd[25] Mr Hurd was told by the elderly Mr Redgrave that the solicitor practice earned £300 pa. Mr Redgrave told Mr Hurd he could check some documents in the office to prove it. Mr Hurd did not check, and subsequently signed a contract to join Mr Redgrave as a partner. Then Mr Hurd found out the practice only generated £200 pa, and the documents in the office had never said otherwise. Lord Jessel MR held that the contract could be rescinded for misrepresentation, because Mr Redgrave had still made a misrepresentation. Furthmore it would be inferred that Mr Hurd relied on the statement from the fact that it was untrue. Edgington v Fitzmaurice[26] confirmed further that a misrepresentation need not be the sole cause of entering a contract, for a remedy to be available, so long as it is an influence.

 

Redgrave v Hurd raises another question, about contributory negligence under the Law Reform (Contributory Negligence) Act 1945. In the case, Mr Redgrave's mistake was referred to as innocent misrepresentation, though it is very arguable that it was at least negligent.[27] Was it negligent of Mr Hurd to not check the papers as well? Had Mr Redgrave been fraudulent, it is clear that any negligence on Mr Hurd's part could not affect his right to compensation.[28] However damages for negligent misrepresentation and damages under the Misrepresentation Act 1967 s 2(1) can.[29]

Edited February 4, 2013 by steampowered

[raydetinu]

there could be a case for a fraudulent statement!

However he would have to prove it was fraudulent and his own mechanics word for the so called problem he found would be suspect!

An independant engineers report would be required just as it would if you were challenging a dealer.

It seeems a judge will have to decide and who to believe.

If you could produce any recent service history documents that would help or any body that has also driven it recently as a witness.

You need to file a defence along those lines.

Good luck.

[sailor sam]

I agree with Surfer. Providing the OP was sincere in his description of the trade in vehicle, then I don't see where this can go. Judge will regard the seller to be 'not the expert' here.