Problem with Bailiff and police taking opposition - (Marston)

[developer]

Hi All,

This is my first post, please be patient with me as I am not very good at explaining things but I'll give it my best shot.

 

My girlfriend had a knock at the door this morning (6:50am) from (later to find out who was) Mr X of Marston Group Limited who asked to see me. I was woken and went down immediately to see what was going on.

 

I was informed that my vehicle was clamped/seized and it was going to have it removed in the next 20 minutes if I didn't pay a charge of £556/£557 or something (can't remember the exact figure) or so immediately. (Was unsure if this was legal as it was off the road/private property/driveway)

 

Obviously I was curious to the authenticity of the claim as I haven't been made aware of owning anyone anything so I asked him to explain himself. He said it was a two parking tickets dated 6 or so months ago and that he had two court issued warrants to reclaim the money. I was surprised as I never heard about them.

 

I asked to see the warrants but he refused/failed to produce them. Further I asked him to contact the company which the instruction was given from but he also refused. I told him I won't be paying anything as I know nothing about this, but he started to raise his voice (she lives in a very private residential area) trying to bring attention to our conversation (this was happening outside as I wouldn't let him in my girlfriends house). Obviously the usual aggressive and rude behavior you would expect from a bailiff but I expected that and I am not undermined easily.

 

Needless to say I suggested to him that he has no right to affix the clamp and that I will be outside to remove it (without damaging it) in a few minutes (quite handy with cars). He insisted that he would call the police if I done so, well naturally I ignored him, got my tool box and got to work. My girlfriend came outside watching, with no involvement.

 

After jacking up the car (by the way he stands in the way and kicks his feet on the jack a few times to push it out of the way and keeps shoving me to the side) while he speaks to the police, his clamp (well it was a chain with padlock) falls off the top of the wheel... its not even secured around the suspension as it looked like it was, and neither is the padlock locked. He has put it for show and he realizes that he's ran out of luck.

 

I start to lower the jack (wind up/down one.. very slow) and he runs to his van and shouts that hes going to block my car so I should leave it.. well, time is of the essence so I get the jack off asap and the chain is hanging loose around the alloy so I left it (wasn't the smartest idea).

 

I started my car, start to reverse out while he's driving/wheel spinning to block me off.. well I reverse my car just in time and with far more than enough space to leave safely and drive off (not in a quick fashion as this chain is destroying my bumper and wing at a fashionable rate).

 

As I drive off my girlfriend runs and stands in the road to see where I'm going (why that was necessary I'm not sure) and during this time Mr X had to turn his car around (because he was facing the 'dead end' side of my road/wrong direction) and after turning around finds my girlfriend in front of him. By then I had already reached the end of my road and was turning (right).

 

Anyway the following events are what were informed to me by my girlfriend. Mr X had turned his car around further down the road, and came back past the house and drove the front of his car into the back of my girlfriend knocking her over (at a slow speed but enough to knock her over). He stopped (as she was obviously in the way) and she got up walked around to his door shouting (probably all types of nice things) and he drove off. I consider this Hit and Run in my book?

 

Well anyway he eventually starts to catch up to me (as I didn't get far as I was probably driving about 5-6 mph at most) so I pulled into another residential private car-park in the area. I was oblivious to the whole point that my girlfriend was hit by his car.

 

I got out of the car and pulled the chain off as it was destroying my car (my bumper broke off completely (with half of it smashed into pieces from the chain) as it was secured with cable ties originally), I jumped back in the car turned around the car-park, found Mr X trying to block me, drove around him and left.

 

Obviously with the freedom of movement with the chain now off I drove in an orderly fashion towards a private compound that I had access too and parked the car. Luckily I turned right from the car park and he mistakenly turned left as I had turned around much faster than him.

 

Anyway what continues shocks me more.

 

Having been woken up at near 7am, I didn't have my phone or wallet and I wasn't interested to bring my car back anytime soon so I went to my friends company by foot and waited for him to open (around 9am).

 

I call my girlfriend and she is in tears, the police have come and already left though.

 

My girlfriend was shouted at by the police because they considered her being hit by the car being "A different matter" and they were "not interested". (We will get back to this).

 

The police invited the bailiff into her house and told her that its his right (which it isn't) and let the bailiff to survey the property. The bailiff forced her to pay this magical debt with the support of the police and not in my knowledge. For informational purposes; I don't live there and its evident that I am registered on the electoral roll in a completely different address (Watford, this event happened in London) and that I had no belongings there except my bag which I always carry with me that contains some personal documents and my iPad, I probably stay over 2 nights a week at the most, we've been in a relationship for almost 4 years. I have lived there previously but I have had a new flat since April this year and I have documents proving this (bills/tenancy/etc).

 

Well anyway not only was she forced to pay the bailiff but the bailiff registered a complaint that I have done a hit and run against his vehicle. I am pretty sure I would know if I hit another car as I have been driving for 7 years, I drive in various Drift and Time attack championships and I am very able with a car. If I had hit his car I would stop, but I didn't.

 

Anyway I have been on the phone with the police officer (as they left a CAD and left a message with my girlfriend to get me to call them) and they have been more than appalling. They are accusing me of hitting his car and running away, told me that the basis for notifying them about my girlfriend being hit by the bailiffs car and the police doing nothing about it was purely because "you are purely saying that in defense of running from an RTA". I have offered more than 20 times during this call for the officer to survey my vehicle and to recall the bailiff and get him to show where I have hit him. This phone call lasted the best of 45-60min and with just the police officer taking the side of the bailiff and giving me a lecture and saying that I have hit his car and run away etc.

 

The police have been less than helpful and I would like to get some legal advise, possibly contact details for a police commisioner or someone of the relevant authority to get this rectified.

 

The police officer I spoke to told me that he is refusing to file a report about my girlfriend being hit by the bailiffs car and also he is denying that she even mentioned it in the first place when they were there (She was screaming her head off apparently for the best part of 20 minutes while the police were there, where the bailiff was arguing that he beeped, laughing at her from behind the police officers back, and the police was saying that she shouldn't be standing in the road and it was her fault etc) After I got onto the police officer who was present I complained (with a strong hand) about their behavour and how they had any right to dismiss her claims of being hit by the car however they denied she even made them aware that she has been hit by the car. They ridiculed her and shouted at her. Well obviously she has been through a lot of tension due to this entire situation and the police officer started giving me a lecture on the phone saying she was distraught and crying and how I was such a bad person and how I shouldn't get into debt or some outlandlish remarks.

 

She is in fact circa 2 months pregnant and shes very distraught at the moment and I'm worried this will jepradise anything for her or our child.

 

The bailiff anyway raised the bill to 625.88 while I was not present and forced her to pay it saying he would empty her house.

 

The bailiff was made aware that I didn't live there, and I made it very clear that I wouldn't deal with his nonsense if he couldn't provide sufficient information regarding a warrant or get the company that requested the amount claimed to confirm that it was in fact a valid claim. When he found I was no longer there he played the cards into his favor, made many lies to get the upper-hand and caused a lot of distress to my girlfriend and her mother.

 

I am extremely annoyed that I have to deal with this incompetent bailiff, my now damaged car from his chain, the police lecturing me and telling me that I am wrong and siding with the bailiff, being accused of RTA, being accused of making lies to rebuke the RTA, being lied to by the police is much more aggravating regarding my girlfriend being hit by the car, they are obviously protecting themselves as I raised a seperate CAD and complained about them before I contacted them directly.

 

I am willing to take any legal extent to make sure this man is brought to justice and that these police officers are re-educated in their line of pratice

 

Please advise my next steps as I am a legal numbnut.

 

Many thanks for reading my interesting situation

 

Kind Regards

 

Joe

Edited November 27, 2012 by developer

[brassnecked]

The police were negligent, and had no right to force your girlfriend to pay your debt, he is guilty of a few criminal offences imho. She should go for a charge back on the card, ASAP, citing duress and as you don't live there demanding money with menaces, and Fraud , I will PM oldbill and the troops as there will be plenty of advice forthcoming on this one.

 

Your girlfriend is a third party to the debt and the bailiff is way way out of order here, and the police the usual simpering muppets fawning over the bailiff as if he was a police officer himself.

[i hate bailiffs]

The police invited the bailiff into her house and told her that its his right (which it isn't) and let the bailiff to survey the property. The bailiff forced her to pay this magical debt with the support of the police and not in my knowledge.

the police had no right they should be there to prevent breach of the peace

 

You need from bailiffs a breakdown of fees where tickets came from

contact council who issues tickets and make a formal complaint about there agents

make a formal complaint to police

contact local MP

 

how was the debt paid card hopefully get charge back

[developer]

Many thanks on your very informative replies, I already feel relief to hear that I wasn't completely wrong in my actions.

 

The payment was via her Debit Card, I had asked her earlier to contact her card issuer and to have them revoke the payment. They said it is in Authorization stages and cannot be revoked as such but when it clears in her account they will refund it and raise an investigation.

 

I would contact a Local MP but I don't know how or how I can make a complaint about/regarding the officers. I don't have any family/friends in the police or anyone that I can trust that will make sure that it isn't overlooked or ignored or treated as a joke.

[brassnecked]

@ developer"I would contact a Local MP but I don't know how or how"

 

MP and councillors via http://www.writetothem.com, also as your girlfriend is the innocent third party she needs to issue any Formal Complaint, and report Marstons to the OFT under Credit fitness to help kill their pig some more. They are out of control.

[ims21]

They are out of control

 

Yes there have been quite a few reports on here in the last few days about their practices.

[brassnecked]

Yes there have been quite a few reports on here in the last few days about their practices.

 

One case being dealt with by oldbill involved a marstons scrote chasing an innocent third party upstairs then pulling her causing a fall and injury, best of that one was the debtor had never lived at the address, and Marstons bailiffs have tried to blame third parties for assaults when it was the innocents who were assaulted by the bailiff.

 

They should follow Drakes into oblivion.

[developer]

Is it relevant that it is the same exact bailiff as this case? Case No 8CL51015 (1st Defendant)

 

I got it from goggling his name.

 

I will get an exact breakdown as soon as I can and I will post it up here.

 

Do you suppose that he is breaking the law again by charging a clamping fee?

[developer]

@ developer"I would contact a Local MP but I don't know how or how"

 

MP and councillors via ...., also as your girlfriend is the innocent third party she needs to issue any Formal Complaint, and report Marstons to the OFT under Credit fitness to help kill their pig some more. They are out of control.

 

Many thanks for your advice, I will follow these steps asap.

 

Kind Regards

[brassnecked]

PM sent to oldbill and tomtubby

 

BN

[BankFodder]

This is third complaint about Marstons which I have heard about this evening.

What is amazing is that when the police are called by the occupant - the police tell them that it is a civil matter and they won't get involved.

When the bailiff company calls, the police come running - and then get involved in a way in which it is unlawful to do.

The police should only attend to ensure that there is no breach of the peace - by either side.

[brassnecked]

This is third complaint about Marstons which I have heard about this evening.

What is amazing is that when the police are called by the occupant - the police tell them that it is a civil matter and they won't get involved.

When the bailiff company calls, the police come running - and then get involved in a way in which it is unlawful to do.

The police should only attend to ensure that there is no breach of the peace - by either side.

 

I fear the police have acted in a criminal manner here by allowing the bailiff to misrepresent his powers viz fraudulently stating he could seize third party goods if the third party didn't pay up.

Marstons need a Watchdog type investigation, Rogue traders anyone?

[tomtubby]

Joe,

Before commenting further do you have any idea which local authority issued these parking tickets?

 

On the receipt left by the bailiff was a reference number left to identify a local authority. This should consist of two digits followed by 8 numbers.

 

If you do get the PCN numbers you need to call the Traffic Enforcement Centre in the morning on 08457 045 007 and ask them to confirm the precise address on the warrant. Is your vehicle registered at your girlfriends property?

 

At the very least, the police officers MUST examine the warrants of execution. Unless they do this, they will not be able to satisfy themselves as to whether the warrants were correctly addressed or whether they had expired!!!

 

 

Lastly, if your vehicle had been seized, there is a local requirement to provide a Form 7 Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory. What such a notice given to you?

[developer]

Joe,

Before commenting further do you have any idea which local authority issued these parking tickets?

 

On the receipt left by the bailiff was a reference number left to identify a local authority. This should consist of two digits followed by 8 numbers.

 

If you do get the PCN numbers you need to call the Traffic Enforcement Centre in the morning on 08457 045 007 and ask them to confirm the precise address on the warrant. Is your vehicle registered at your girlfriends property?

 

At the very least, the police officers MUST examine the warrants of execution. Unless they do this, they will not be able to satisfy themselves as to whether the warrants were correctly addressed or whether they had expired!!!

 

 

Lastly, if your vehicle had been seized, there is a local requirement to provide a Form 7 Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory. What such a notice given to you?

 

Many thanks for your reply, Please find your questions addressed in respective order;

 

I believe the local authority was Watford Borough Council (based on the road name given)

 

I have two reference numbers which start with 12 however the total digits are 7

 

I will be contacting the TEC in the morning regarding this and I will post my findings. The vehicle was registered in my girlfriends address previously, I have updated the records mid May however I didn't receive confirmation.

 

The police officer I spoke to on the phone refused to confirm that there was a proof of Warrant being shown by the bailiff. I asked him many times to say that he has seen a warrant but he would refuse every time saying "I have seen documentation". I got quite annoyed that I had to tell him to repeat this sentence "I have seen proof that a warrant has being issued" but he wouldn't say the word "warrant". I am unsure if police phones are recorded but the guy I spoke to was the most difficult person I've ever dealt with. I was told by the bailiff that two warrants have been issued by court against me but he couldn't show me even one of them and by the sounds of it, the police haven't seen it either.

 

My vehicle is in my possession however at the time when the bailiff claimed he had seized my vehicle he did not provide a single piece of paper work. There was a sticker on the window of the vehicle but that was saying that I cannot touch the vehicle. At no point have I received a Form 7 Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory.

 

Many thanks for your assistance

 

Joe

[tomtubby]

You will not be able to make enquiries with the Traffic Enforcement Centre without the PCN number. You will very likely need to call Watford Council parking dept in the morning to obtain a PCN number. When you get through, I would suggest that you ask them if there are any further PCN's.

 

If the police officer had not physically seen the warrant then how on earth was he able to satisfy himself as to whether the bailiff was legally entitled to seize goods ?????

[developer]

Should I contact Marston tomorrow for the breakdown along with the PCN numbers in question? Would this help?

 

I'm not sure really on what basis they allowed him to come into the house and to take inventory of the goods even though I didn't even live there, I'm not sure if the police in question were very well informed about the procedures or legality of bailiffs but the officer was adamant to say that he saw sufficient "documentation" although he wouldn't comment about the warrant(s), he seemed quite confused when I was asking him to confirm that he had seen a warrant and he wouldn't disclose to me what he considered as sufficient documentation (he probably wasn't sure what he was looking at).

 

I will contact Watford Council tomorrow regarding the PCN's and see anything further.

 

Thanks again

[ploddertom]

The chances are he would have been shown something that was on a PDA or mobile phone that may or probably may not have looked like official documentation. As most policeman are not trained in Bailiff matters the chances are he was lead by the nose and believed everything he was told and saw. It is more than likely he has now found out different and knows he may be in the doodoos - hence his comments. His pocketbook may make interesting reading.

[*RainbowTears*]

The chances are he would have been shown something that was on a PDA or mobile phone that may or probably may not have looked like official documentation. As most policeman are not trained in Bailiff matters the chances are he was lead by the nose and believed everything he was told and saw. It is more than likely he has now found out different and knows he may be in the doodoos - hence his comments. His pocketbook may make interesting reading.

 

@OP this is truly awful & I whilst I can't offer you any advice, I do hope you & your pregnant GF get this terrible situation sorted out. I can't believe the Police sided with the Bailiff even after the vile oaf hit your GF with his car, then allowed this vile oaf into her home!!

 

Personally I'd report & make a complaint about the Police officers to the Chief Constable & IPCC if need be due to their actions.

 

@CAG advisors. Is there anything you can state to Police officers who attend, (when Bailiffs or the public call them) to stop them from siding with the Bailiffs & also to stop them from entering your home?

 

I do understand that HCEO have to have proper warrants etc from the Courts, but what about the type the OP faced above. As in future if the Police invite a Bailiff into your home & he starts to levy your goods etc, then there's nothing stopping him coming back to take them or is there?

 

It's a shame Police officers do not realise that most Bailiffs are lying, vile tongued cretins!

[smouk]

Yes, you must take this up with the Chief Constable and the IPCCC. However, don't forget that you have a newly elected Police Commissioner which might well be David Lloyd. Might help to be a Tory donor though.

[smouk]

@CAG advisors. Is there anything you can state to Police officers who attend, (when Bailiffs or the public call them) to stop them from siding with the Bailiffs & also to stop them from entering your home?

 

They can certainly be reminded of their oath to uphold Common Law but in truth it depends very much upon the officer and the situation.

 

Firstly: Cameraphone? Record it!....and you ARE entitled to whatever a bailiff or PO says!

 

Secondly: Stay calm and civil - easier said than done, I know! - and be as reasonable in your manner as possible - so calmly asking to see the warrant and in the presence of a PO puts the PO on the spot to behave appropriately.

 

Unfortunately, in my experience the nature of the beast is not likely to be too sympathetic so collate evidence by recording events and logging the IDs of ALL parties involved.

 

In certain circumstances, and if a levy has not been made or goods seized, then paying the OC in full (borrow it if you have to) puts the bailiff in a spot as they cannot then levy etc for a "null" debt and would have to build a civil claim for any fees they feel may be due to them.

 

Makes 'em spit but, in my experience, they drop it but only after they've left lots of nice red-headed paperwork for you (but only ever when you're out - funny that!) saying they ARE going to levy and seize goods. Something to bash 'em with later maybe? Certainly something to spite them with.

Edited November 28, 2012 by smouk
Illiteracy! Edukashun, edukashun, edukashun!

[ploddertom]

Going back to the incident that occurred I assume since being knocked over your GF has attended for tests & examination and assume the scrapes to knees, arms etc & bruising are now well documented & photographed - not that I am saying they are imagined etc of course.

[developer]

Just been on the phone with Marston

 

Funny to find out but they are claiming that my total balance owed was 588.54 however a payment from Mr X was taken of 626.88

 

In addition to this they claim I have an outstanding balance of 52.99 and they will not disclose what this payment is for

 

I have recorded the entire conversation, they are not willing to investigate this and they are only advising that I will have to discuss it with Mr X.

 

The breakdown of fees has been described as follows

 

Reference Number: ****270

£82 Fee handed from court

£11.20 First letter fee

£20 "EA" Attendance Fee

£175 "EA" Capacitance and Removal Fee

 

Reference Number: ****288

£112.00 Fee handed from court

£11.20 First Letter Fee

£34.50 "EA" Attendance Fee

£44.55 "EA" Attendance Fee

 

Now I've calculated all the values which sums to: £490.45 with VAT of £98.09

The value of £588.54

 

The payment that was taken was £626.88

 

The unknown difference which they couldn't account for is £68.34 (£67.34 without Debit Card fee)

 

And additionally their staff are claiming that I have an outstanding balance against ****288 of £52.99 and that they will be perusing it.

 

I'm getting extremely worked up about this now as it is clear Mr X is playing a game to cause me more headache, and the fact that they are extremely unhelpful on the phone makes it even more frustrating.

 

I am currently uploading a recording of my conversation with the company, the areas of *BLANK* are to cover sensitive information.

 

This will be in the next post

Edited November 28, 2012 by ims21
Please do not post the name of the Bailiff

[developer]

Going back to the incident that occurred I assume since being knocked over your GF has attended for tests & examination and assume the scrapes to knees, arms etc & bruising are now well documented & photographed - not that I am saying they are imagined etc of course.

 

I haven't taken photos, we went to a walk in hospital yesterday but we sat for 2 hours and nobody saw us as it was extremely busy and my girlfriend was tired and asked me to bring her back home, we are going to be attending again today but to a quiter place which is only open limited times

 

Joe

[developer]

Please find the recording below

 

Coversation with "Nav" at Marston ( 01992807397 )@ 12:14pm - 12:30pm)

 

 

Please skip to 12:20.

 

They cut me off the first time I called but thats when I started the recording so I decided to keep it all together

 

Thanks

Edited November 28, 2012 by developer

[developer]

Sorry I have to put another post to be able to post a link