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Quick question.

Do you think that anyone ever actually pays off a Welcome loan? Or do they just always get paid off by another loan?

I cant see how paying £120 off a £13500 loan in the first year will ever pay off the loan in the 10 years they say it will be paid off in?

Something just is NOT right with what I am looking at.

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Hi Grapes,

Welcome to the un-Welcome Fighters thread, nice to see they are a little quicker in your neck of the woods.

By all means come back and ask questions, there are quite a few of us using this thread now and if we can help in any way we will, so please dont think you are on your own. ;-)

 

Smoothy,

go for it mate, it seesm that they just pluck figures out of the air doesnt it?

I rang my Branch today and gave one of them a right ear bashing about my S.A.R. aand not fulfilling their obligation under it. I demanded a list of full narratives used by the company so I can understand everything on the statements, I gave them 7 days to comply or its the Information Commisioners next :-D Poor bloke was trembling by the time I'd finished and came back with the cursory, "I'll pass it on to the manager sir" lol

Friendship costs nothing but its rewards can be priceless. Do not judge, as you will not be judged but if you can, try and assist where possible.:smile:

everyone is entitled to MY opinion!:D

I offer my comments without prejudice or liability.

If you found my advice helpful, please click the scales at the top.

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I acquired my credit report from Experian today and to my horror the outstanding amount on my car loan that was supposed to finish in October is £1805. How they got that figure Ill never know! Still...im starting with a CCA request then S.A.R so i should know what chargies have been levied and if I can fight against them.

 

Smoothy, If welcome have told you that you owe £800 and you have a figure from your credit report saying it is £1805 then something is very wrong. Either Welcome have not updated your report or they have given you the wrong information. Personally I would write a letter to welcome ASAP explaining this and that you want to know why there are two different figures and also send a copy to Experian. Include a copy of the letter you have had already from welcome.

Welcome car finance - Won 19/10/06

Barclays - Offered 48% said no

Next step - moneyclaim

Barclaycard - your next

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Quick question.

Do you think that anyone ever actually pays off a Welcome loan? Or do they just always get paid off by another loan?

I cant see how paying £120 off a £13500 loan in the first year will ever pay off the loan in the 10 years they say it will be paid off in?

Something just is NOT right with what I am looking at.

 

 

I totally agree with you Grapes. Despite my loan due to be paid at £213 per month and finishing on 2nd October, there is still £1800 outstanding. This info was updated on my credit report in October. Now, I know I only paid half payments for 3 months therefore, in my reckoning, I should only owe them £320 tops. So where this other £1500 has come from, I dont know.

Surreylad, thanks for the advice, but since everyone I knew has moved from the branch, I dont have a point of contact and the last person I spoke to in our local branch got a bit shirty with me! So, If I do a CCA and S.A.R request it should put the account into dispute, which, as I understand it, makes it unenforceable until the dispute is resolved. Hopefully, they wont have a copy of my contract and I can stick 2 fingers up at them, which is far more satisfying than having to be diplomatic and bite my tongue on the phone!

 

Smoothy

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I've sent a CCA already to the DCA working on behalf of UnWelcome - that went on 6th November - and received no reply (quelle surprise!) & I have a 'your request is being dealt with' letter from UnWelcomes compliance department in respect of my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). Reading the thread that Ecobabe directed us to, I also need to send a CCA to UnWelcome as even if they fail to produce an original agreement under the SAR, that alone is not enough to stop the debt. All legal stuff, but has to be done to follow procedure it seems. So, I'll be doing that this week. It was intersting to read that one poster on that thread sent a CCA to his creditor, they were then unable to supply the original agreement (and admitted so in writing). He was then able to have the debt reduced to 'zero balance', have all reference to it removed from his credit file AND he got back all the payments he had made - as without an agreement there was no agreement & accordingly they had no right to ever take a single penny. Amazed me to be honest. My own UnWelcome loan was taken out in one branch, i then moved so it was transferred to another, moved again, so it was transferred again, then the branch itself moved offices. Will my agreement have survived that lot? We'll see. As for the interest charges - it seems a lot of us have balances that are never reducing as the monthly 'interest posting' (does anyone have any idea what that MEANS?) is almost the same as the payments. I'm totally at a loss as to how that works. Ah well, sit tight now & count the days I guess - and get my CCA off to UnWelcome. I'll keep you posted.

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Morning Freedom Fighters!

 

Well sat into the early hours wading thru the info Welcome had sent me, most of it is rubbish and very badly photocopied.

As far as I can see there is absolutely no way that the loan can be paid off with the amount that is paid per month compared to the interest applied. So that is going to be one of my questions in letter number two to them, demonstrate to me how the loan will reduce to 0 in 10 years.

 

I think its down to the PPI interest applied but still working on that side of the problem. Their willingness to refund me pro rata on an insurance I never wanted and is not only expensive but useless doesnt cut the mustard either I am afraid!

 

Set my complaints procedure in motion as well last night FO, FSA, TS etc

This lot have really ticked me off :x

 

Might be a dam good scrap coming over Mortgage Indemnity and misselling of just about everything as well!!

 

Oh and they admit they use the Rule of 78 in their letter!

 

Will update you later :cool:

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Grapes - be interesting to see how you go, as I will have the pleasure of reading through the same blurb & nonsense at some point. Like you, I cannot see how my loan would ever have been paid off within the time. Out of interest, did they send you a 'true & signed' copy of your agreement?

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I really think you'll find it works like a repayment mortgage. All part of the joys of compound interest. When you save and leave the interest in it eventually starts to balloon. It's the same in reverse with a repayment loan. I did a quick spreadsheet with a starting figure of 10000 and interest of 4% added each month but 450 paid off. After 12 months there was still 9248 owing but by month 56 therer was only 9 left outstanding.

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I'm surprised how many people have not reached the Collections unit yet.

If your accounts go unpaid for 12 months and you have managed to live through the harassment and bullying.

Your account gets passed to the Late Collectors Unit, only there do you get any type of respite at all.

 

Early settlement of 50% or more, monthly payments of 25% of your contractual rates and anything else they can grovel for as they will do what ever they can not to go to court and eventually if they have to will settle by receiving the amount they borrowed.

 

But by this time they have defaulted and bashed your door and caused you nightmares.

Its the hard nut approach then the oh well that didn't work lets just be nice and get what we can.

 

Welcome know the UN lawfull thing that they are doing thats why they don't like court either.:)

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Breadline - Mine is way past the collections unit. Its with a dca. Thats why i decided i HAD to do something as trying to talk rationally with Welcome is just not possible. The dca actually made me a 'once in a lifetime offer' of a 50% reduction on my 'debt'. Even that is way over what i think i should be paying. As you say tho, they'll do anythinf to avoid court where their unethical practises will be held up to public scrutiny.

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Hi Welcome Fighters, just to let you all know that the information commisioner has apparently put my complaint about there data protection clause in contracts (transferring to outside eec - ie anywhere in the work, secure or not) to a SENIOR case manager, will let you know what happens.

Grapes asked if anyone ever pays off a loan or just goes back with Welcome? I wonder, they seem to be screwing up records of payments, defaults etc accidentally on purpose and people don't even know it. If they are secretly KEEPING your credit rating poor then you are having to go back to them time and time again. All they have to do is register a few non or late payments etc every few months and the high st banks won't touch you yet. You won't know about it as you just make an application, are refused and think oh well, my rating is just not 'there' yet. What a [problem] as they seem to be doing it to loads of people. We got a letter through ages ago saying we were nearly £400 behind in payments and we had never missed one! Branch said it was a mistake sending the letter out and its just the way the acount was put through on their system, not to worry! But thinking about it - they are just keeping our credit report poor.

Am I just being overly paranoid now???!

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

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I've updated my post with what I received from Welcome in response to my SAR and CCA. I hope to claim the PPI back but have yet to find out what happened to Macadam Finance who I originally had loans with. I went in to the branch one day, was told they were now Welcome finance but Welcome have only sent me info on the last loan I had. If anyone has a scoobie it would be appreciated...

Nikkiandmidgets Vs BOS (3) - S.A.R sent 11/09/06

 

Nikkiandmidgets Vs Capital One (2) - S.A.R sent 11/09/06, Prelims sent 20/10/06, LBA's sent 16/11/06

 

Nikkiandmidgets Vs Citi credit card - S.A.R sent 11/09/06, Prelim sent 9/10/06, LBA sent 28/10/06

 

Nikkiandmidgets Vs Halifax - S.A.R sent 11/09/06

 

Nikkiandmidgets Vs Egg (4) - S.A.R. sent 20/10/06

 

Nikkiandmidget Vs Littlewoods (3) - S.A.R sent 20/10/06

 

Nikkiandmidgets Vs Blackhorse - Prelim sent 20/10/06 requesting £125 charges to be refunded. LBA sent 16/11/06.

 

Nikkiandmidgets Vs Welcome Finance (Macadam Finance) - S.A.R and C.C.A request sent 20/10/06

 

My Mum Vs Halifax - S.A.R sent 11/09/06

My Mum Vs Capital One - S.A.R sent 20/10/06

My Mum Vs Citi - S.A.R sent 20/10/06

My Mum Vs SLC - S.A.R and C.C.A sent 09/10/06

 

Husband Vs BOS (3) - S.A.R sent 20/10/06

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IDEA! Anyone think we should get watchdog to get one of their investigators into work in a branch with the wee hidden camera and catch them at it hehe. Would be really interesting to see whats taught to staff and what is said about us customers behind closed doors, damning too.

 

Oh yeah guys - your local trading standards guys should be able to look over the statements (and confirm its a load of bull). That way you also have official eyes checking it for you for any arguments and your not driving yourself nuts trying to make sense of it all!

 

Grape, what did they say about the Rule of 78? Nice one, they must be wondering whats gonna hit them next :lol:

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

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I've updated my post with what I received from Welcome in response to my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and CCA. I hope to claim the PPI back but have yet to find out what happened to Macadam Finance who I originally had loans with. I went in to the branch one day, was told they were now Welcome finance but Welcome have only sent me info on the last loan I had. If anyone has a scoobie it would be appreciated...

 

Ive sent an email off to a friend to see what gets dug up, will let you know the reply, is this along time ago?

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IDEA! Anyone think we should get watchdog to get one of their investigators into work in a branch with the wee hidden camera and catch them at it hehe. Would be really interesting to see whats taught to staff and what is said about us customers behind closed doors, damning too.

 

 

 

For my sins Im the closest i think for 2 years if that helps:(

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IDEA! Anyone think we should get watchdog to get one of their investigators into work in a branch with the wee hidden camera and catch them at it hehe. Would be really interesting to see whats taught to staff and what is said about us customers behind closed doors, damning too.

 

 

I did actually send an email to watchdog a while ago about (un)Welcome...never had a response. But...if a lot of people were to send in details of their own nightmares they may just take them seriously! Possibly an idea to consider when we are armed with more info about them....like when the time limits are up!!! After weve all had the accounts deemed unenforceable that is!!

 

Dont mind me, Im a chicken...dont want to rock the boat to early! I may fall out!

 

Smoothy

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Read throught the

FAQ's and when your ready, start a thread in your banks forum to keep us all updated!

If the information I have provided is useful, please click the scales!

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Hi

 

Been out to Open Day at youngest childs school, there is something soothing about spending the day making cookies and christmas decorations with 4 year olds!

 

Right, I see the theory about the repayment mortgage etc but I am afraid that paying £120 off a £13697 loan in the first year is never going to clear the loan in 11 years (Yes it was 132 months not 120 as I at first supposed!). Going to set up a spreadsheet and see what I get in a while and will let you know.

 

In my first letter I asked them to confirm the Rule Of 78 was used to settle my first loan (Although I never realised it was a 2nd loan, thought it was an advance!)

Reply was "you suggest we should have not used the Rule of 78 in order to calculate your settlement figure. However as your initial agreement was entered into before the enactment of the Consumer Credit (Early Settlement) Regulations 2004 we submit our method of calculation was correct"

Ummm so the OFT Guideleines to sub prime lenders of 1997 dont count at all? No its welcome we are talking about so I suppose it doesnt!

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The Rule Of 78 is a method of calculation for settlement figures.

 

By the way in the business they call the constant recycling of loans "churning", the OFT say that the capital repaid may be small and the debt increases. Nice plan :mad:

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Grapes, I wasn't thinking of your case so much as one that was posted earlier. Think it was Soli.

 

Out of interest (if you'll pardon the pun) I plugged your 13697 into my spreadsheet and, leaving the interest at 4% I set the payment to be 10 more than the first month's interest ie payment of £10 off the capital and guess what? It got to zero in month 105. I'm sure if you tweak the interest rate you can make it come to zero in month 132.

 

So, you see, it does work. The thing about a loan of this type is that it is so heavily loaded in the early years that it does take a few years until any significant amount has been paid off.

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Sitting stewing over my latest letter to Welcome

 

Thinking of putting the following in reply to their explanation of why we pay such a high APR for a secured loan ..

 

"In your letter you state that your products are priced on risk and each individual case is assessed on its own merits. As you have deemed it neccessary to apply the following insurances, Medicare, Lifecare,Homecare and Payment Protection Insurance (Twice!), I consider that you should regard us as covered for all forms of plague, pestilence or disaster. Additionally you have added on Mortgage Indemnity insurance and have the loan secured by our home. It would appear that the only chance of you losing your money would be a meteorite striking Earth and wiping out the planet!

Therefore why was there a necessity for a huge APR? Also in the details provided after our SAR, I saw no indication of how or by whom our APR was decided upon, please provide these details"

 

What do you think? :rolleyes:

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I've been playing with my spreadsheet, just because I find it fascinating and I can't help wasting time I suppose. Using Grapes starting figure of £13697 I found that an interest rate of 2.83% monthly and a monthly payment which was £10 more than the interest figure in month 1 ie £397.56 brought the balance just about to zero after 132 months.

 

The best bit is the total paid will be £52477. Seems horrendous but that is in line with normal mortgage figures I believe.

 

Don't know how I can post the spreadsheet but for anyone with Excel:

start a new book and enter the following:

A1: .028295 (this is the monthly percentage expressed as a fraction 1%=.01)

C1: =D133 (so you can see when balance is zero at month 132)

A2: =D1*$A$1 (calculate the monthly interest)

B2: =$A$2+10 (making payment £10 more than month 1 interest)

D1: 13697 (loan amount)

D2: =D1+A2-B2 (adds interest and deducts payment from balance)

Now just highlight the area from A2 to D2 down to row 133 and press ctrl D

E1: =B2*132 (total paid)

 

You can then alter the loan amount and the final month (change C1 to 121 or whatever- remember to add 1) and the 10 in B2 to whatever amount above interest you paid in month 1.

 

Change the 132 in E1 to however many payments

 

It is a basic calculation and if the loan rate is variable needs to be a lot more sophisticated.

 

I have been told by someone that they believe it is not legal to charge this way on unsecured borrowing (front-loading) but I'm not sure that is true. It is, after all, exactly the way that credit cards work and is the way that mortgages have always worked.

 

Hope that helps.

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