Arrow Global - N244 Set-Aside Application made/ Help Needed in Preparing CCJ Defence

[talk_voip]

Dear fellows,

 

As advised I am starting a new thread on the flight that I am about to embark on; the battle to set aside three CCJs appearing on my credit file. Moreover I can see that Nationwide has defaulted my dormant bank account in 2008 completely made up of charges. I will start a separate thread on this in appropriate sub forum.

Background:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?370066-Arrow-Global-Notice-of-Service-by-the-Bailiff-***Suspended***

As discussed in the thread, I made N244 application to set aside one of the three CCJs. Why only one and not three N244 because the first N244 is made as counter attack against N63 received for one of the CCJs.

Plan:

Now that the hearing date is set for the third week of January 2013, I plan on sending CPR 31.14 request to Arrow Global and this time for other CCJ as well (two out of three CCJs are made by AG) so that to nail down at least two CCJ at the same time. Of course for the second CCJ I need to make a separate N244 application which I will make very soon. Once I have received documents from AG, I will then move with SAR to whosoever the debts belong to.

 

I do not recall any debt from AG or any other creditor. I haven’t had any credit for at least 8 years. The credit files have no mention of any accounts in arrears/ defaults except the CCJ shown spot on.

 

Just to make sure that I have not missed out on any information that I must receive from AG, please advise here the same so that I add it to CPR 31.14 request.

 

Critical questions about the 14 days rule for claimant to respond to CPR 31.14 request:

 

1. Does this apply to my case where I have the set-aside date coming up in almost 8 weeks time?
   
2. Is claimant bound to respond to my request within 14 days?
   
3. If above is not applicable in this case,, then do I need to mention any time frame in my CPR 31.14 request
   

Your swift response would be highly appreciated as I wish to move quickly on CPR request in order to see the evidence AG is carrying against me.

Thanks and best regards,

[talk_voip]

Hello again,

 

This is for andyorch to please comment, thanks

 

" That is quite true once a judgment is in place you cannot request a copy of the agreement.However once you get it set a side you can then use their letter conformation that no agreement exists as the basis of your defence."

 

The above quote is taken from the following thread.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?360452-CCJ-Help-Please***-Set-a-Side-Claim-Withdrawn***&highlight=SET+ASIDE+ccj

 

 

This is a very interesting reading, and can be fatal if true in my case. If this is true then the action plan mentioned in my above post is a futile effort.

Andy please advise at your earliest. Thanks

 

Regards

[AndyOrch]

Hi

 

Responding to the above post.I can only reiterate but nothing to stop you requesting a copy.Would that qualify as a reason to set a side? ...not in my opinion.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[talk_voip]

Thanks Andy,

 

I asked this because I am about to send the CPR 31.14 to AG. They may refuse to send the information if above is true. I intend to use the information during set aside application as well as to see what basis do they have in making this claim so that to defend it subsequently.

 

So, do I mention any time limit that AG must respond and provide information within? Is this still applicable in my case?

 

 

Regards,

Edited November 27, 2012 by talk_voip
Additional Comments

[AndyOrch]

Hi TV

 

You cant request information vis a CPR as there is no current litigation.you would have to "try" a section 77/78 request but as I have stated they are not legally obliged to respond now they have judgment...whether they know that is another matter!!!!

 

Regards

 

Andy

[talk_voip]

Thanks Andy,

 

I will give it a try and update you here.

 

 

Regards

[talk_voip]

Hello,

 

I have received this letter (please see attachment) from IND. Please advise what should be the course of action now. Why are they asking whether or not I had any credit card taken?. How would I know any details. I have not done any CPR 31.14 request as yet and no SAR request has been sent to any lender, as I don't know the details.

 

Regards,[ATTACH=CONFIG]39679[/ATTACH]

[talk_voip]

Good Morning,

 

Andy can you help on this please. I need to learn what should I do now. I never had any contact with regards to any debt with any lender or DCA for almost 7 years. I do not wish to start any sort of correspondence that can eventually be used against me in the court.

 

• Do you think its OK if instead of replying to this letter, I send them a CPR 31.14 request? or should I keep mum?
  
• Is it a good or bad sign receiving this letter?
  
• Does the matter in the letter convey any hidden message that I am unable to understand due to lack of knowledge/ understanding of this system?
  

 

I would appreciate your reply.

 

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

Hi TV

 

 

The above letter.....yes its considered good practice for parties to agree/confirm details in advance of a decision to set a side.Yes the courts do advocate mutual agreement to ease any claim.

But the points raised in that letter are rather intrusive and irrelevant to the hearing to set a side...they are trying to short cut the process, pre-empt any defence and gain an advantage over you as the defendant.

 

Whether you informed all creditors of the change of address is irrelevant at this stage...your application is based on bad service.If they have corresponded with you since judgment at your new address this confirms its irrelevance.

To ask you directly did you apply for credit and do you owe said money...they become judge and jury ...and any defence will meet a brick wall.

 

Yes the above points may be come relevant once the set a side is effected and you then have to present a defence with merit.

 

To set a side a judgment the process is 2 fold.Making a set a side application successful and then being able to defend with merit.If you cant defend then its pointless requesting a set a side.

 

With regards to whether you can now use CPR have you been furnished with a copy of the particulars of the claim?

 

Regards

Andy

[talk_voip]

Hi TV

 

 

The above letter.....yes its considered good practice for parties to agree/confirm details in advance of a decision to set a side.Yes the courts do advocate mutual agreement to ease any claim.

But the points raised in that letter are rather intrusive and irrelevant to the hearing to set a side...they are trying to short cut the process, pre-empt any defence and gain an advantage over you as the defendant.

 

Whether you informed all creditors of the change of address is irrelevant at this stage...your application is based on bad service.If they have corresponded with you since judgment at your new address this confirms its irrelevance.

To ask you directly did you apply for credit and do you owe said money...they become judge and jury ...and any defence will meet a brick wall.

 

Yes the above points may be come relevant once the set a side is effected and you then have to present a defence with merit.

 

To set a side a judgment the process is 2 fold.Making a set a side application successful and then being able to defend with merit.If you cant defend then its pointless requesting a set a side.

 

With regards to whether you can now use CPR have you been furnished with a copy of the particulars of the claim?

 

Regards

Andy

 

Hello Andy,

Thank you very much for the guidance.

 

With regards to the POC, No, I have not been served with the particulars of the claim. What all I know about this claim is that there is a CCJ against me and the claimant is Arrow Global. Even this information is learnt through the N63 served on me back in October. No correspondence received/ sent to any party except filing N244 for set aside.

 

So do you suggest to reply to this letter or keeping silent until the hearing date would be the best policy. I was also thinking to acquire as much knowledge on the matter as possible and gather defence and discuss it here so that we have an understanding of this in details. Otherwise I can simply turn up at the hearing relying on the submitted documents which only show that I was away during entire 6-7 years time. I would not have anything in defence if judge or claimant asks about my defence against the claim (perhaps I can argue that I do not have POC).

 

Regards

[AndyOrch]

I personally would just respond by asking what their particulars were (having never received the claim) and what documentation do they hold to verify their claim...not vis a CPR (at this stage).Totally disregard their questions and make no reference to them.

If you know which court awarded judgment you could also request copy summons from them.

[talk_voip]

Wonderful !

I will act accordingly. Come back to you once response received.

 

Regards,

[talk_voip]

Dear Friends,

 

Unfortunately my application to set aside the CCJ is dismissed on the grounds that:

 

1. The judge could not find the error in the service.
   
2. DJ referred to some clause of rent agreement's governing law that makes me liable for all posts (I need to wait for the complete judgement to understand as to what he meant by that).
   
3. DJ was not convinced that after so many years have passed and I was not aware of this CCJ; despite the fact that I produced a number of documents showing I was away. He looked at my credit file (again which was supplied to show that no relevant credit agreement prevails in my file for which the CCJ had been granted) and said that I had some other credits at this address (which is again debateable, but he did not allow me to say anything on this as well) which shows that there could have been some credit from Arrow as well ????
   
4. DJ disregarded the fact that AG/IND never responded to my formal request pursuant to s.77/78/79, sent more than a month ago ?? According to him, it was Irrelevant for this case !
   
5. He also awarded costs to AG for this hearing (another £145 added to account)
   

I know I have to wait until full text is received, but what options do I have now..... ??

 

I definitely need a good advice from you guys to prepare a defense. What steps should I take now? I am so confused as I was not expecting this to happen in the court. The DJ was not in the mood from the begining of granting any relief and started steering the discussion to the service merits. I remember him mentioning that at this stage, after lapsing so many years its difficult to say whether or not procedural error was made, hence application dismissed !

 

Desperately need your urgent attention.

 

Regards,

[Ganymede]

I definitely need a good advice from you guys to prepare a defense

 

 

 

What Defence? Your application to set aside was dismissed and the CCJ stands doesn't it?

[talk_voip]

Good Morning ,

Thanks very much Ganymede for looking at my message.

 

By defence, I meant what options are available to me now. Should I go to appeal route and if yes how should I approach it.

Secondly, if I do not choose to go for appeal, what procedure should I adopt now to tackle the situation. I know for a fact that once AG hears from solicitrs that my application has beenn turned down, they will start with full force to implement it.

My problem is that I am not even aware of the POC. As I mentioned in my message above, that my request under 77/78/79 has not been acknowledged by AG and its been more than a month now. I will definitely do a SAR and send a letter today, but then what?

 

My request is to please guide me through the process. Where should I now start and what to look for.

 

Let me know please what information is required at this point from my end so that you experienced fellows can guide me on the case.

 

I appreciate your reading and responses. Thanks

 

Regards,

[AndyOrch]

Hi TV

 

Sorry to hear this result but as you was advised it was a shot in the dark.How old is the judgment now and what if any payment arrangements are in place?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[talk_voip]

Hi Andy,

 

The CCJ was issued in 2007. But I came to know only in October 2012 (as I mentioned in my other thread, never having a need for credit and hence no credit file look up) when I came to UK and visited the house as my tenant was leaving. I found the bailiff letter to attend court for attachment of earnings hearing (I guess N63). It all started from there.

 

As mentioned, there is no reference to this credit in credit file (all 3) for which AG applied this judgement for. I thought by proving that I was not residing in the UK would suffice and error in service will apply. Looks like it was not that simple. Judge did not even want to talk about whether or not I know about the credit. He stuck himself to the argument whether or not the notice was served properly. Which in his opinion, was served within guidelines (by quoting some laws, that I will share with you guys once full text of judgement is received).

 

I am extremely concerned with the way the justice system works. Judge should have listened to my argument that I was not aware of the POC and for which I adopted the legal way of requesting under POC under CPR 77/78/79 . I have sent SAR with £10 to AG day before yesterday.

 

At this stage I need to under what should I do once I have POC from AG. I am also thinking of asking court to provide a copy of the initial notice. Perhaps in a month's time I should have some information on POC ample material to move forward. But I have also heard that should I take the appeal route, then I only have 21 days to file an application??

 

So far :

SAR sent to AG

POC/ Notice copy will be requested from court

SAR will also be sent to the creditor once name is confirmed

 

Of course I do not wish to waste precious time of forum members specially site admin/ moderators, I request that apart from suggesting me something here I am also be pointed to similar threads where such a situation has arisen with a member. Though I have searched and searched and searched and have also read a lot, but a straight shot will help me understanding the process much quickly and shall be highly appreciated. Currently due to lack of understanding of court/ justice system, I am prone to making blunders,, hence need straight procedural details.

 

Thank you very much again for taking time in reading my jargon.

 

Regards,

talk_voip

[talk_voip]

Dear members,

 

Can I have some attention as well please. Thanks

 

Regards,

[talk_voip]

Hello,

 

Update:

Court decision has not arrived as of today. However after doing an extensive research and deep digging, I found that the two CCJ from AG are for some two old credit cards. I do acknowledge one with Natwest but do not acknowledge the one with Barclays as I never had any dealings with Barclays in the past. The one with Natwest is a 12 years old account. I lost the card 10 years ago and the loss was properly intimated to Natwest. The card had full insurance on it.

 

This was the time when I left the country back in 2003. Looks like the insurance did not cover the lost card transactions on it and Natwest subsequently assigned them to me (this is my theory for now, I need all statements and other related documents to underpin my claim). Due to overseas stay, I could not follow up with Natwest, and now here I am with a CCJ to deal with. For which, I have also lost the application for set-aside.

 

AG having a CCJ against me, shows that perhaps in the past the debt was assigned to them in one or the other way. So keeping in view all this, and the situation where I am now:

 

I can understand that I cannot request documents through CPR 31.14 or CPR18, as CCJ is already in place. Hence, do you think the following approach to tackle the case is correct:

1. To start, I should send SAR letter to AG or Natwest or both?
   
2. Once POC, documents received I should look for any discrepancies (excess charges etc) which could form basis of the defence.
   

SAR letter template:

[MY address]

[Arrow Global/ Natwest address]

[DATE]

Dear Sir/Madam

ACCOUNT/REF NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

Please supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to any matter and in any form and for any period of time.

Please note that I require disclosure of any personal data which you hold on me for the entire period of my dealings with you.

This Subject Access Requestis includes - but is not limited to any data you hold about me in respect of any matter and held in any form including notes, screen notes, recordings, internal correspondence and external correspondence. (Is this sufficient asking or need to mention the details as to what is required, the way CPR31.14 templates ask???

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. (Is this required - I do nto wish to send them any IDs) ... ????

If I do not hear from you then I will assume that this Statutory Request is satisfactory and that the 40 day timescale has started.

Yours faithfully,

[signature] ... Or just Print Name ... ??

[name]

Thank you again for your attention and I would appreciate a quick response as well.

Best regards,

 

 

 

[talk_voip]

Hello,

 

I definitely need help now as things are getting out of control.

 

Ever since I lost the Set-Aside case, the creditor IND- Arrow Global kept quiet for just a month and now enforcers start appearing at my residence. The latest one from P&A Receivables knocked at my door for at least 3 times in a single day last week wanting to drop a parcel for me from IND (funny... hanhh).

 

I have also received two letters week after other from Shoosmiths asking for a payment plan now. The second letter is even more threatening asking to get into a payment plan or else their client would consider more stringent enforcement options very soon.

 

I requested forum member in the month of January (last message above) for guidance after court turned down my application for set-aside CCJ. As I mentioned I had sent IND- Arrow global a CPR 77/78/79 long before the court hearing date, I did not receive any response to it. This was told to judge but judge disregarded it and solely relied on the documents submitted. Which of course lacked a proper defence.

 

Let me know please where should I start now. I definitely need somebody attention with full step by step guidance as to where to start with. In case you would like me to summarize the case, I can do that as well to save your time.

 

Regards,

[talk_voip]

Polite bump ......