Private residents car parking

[Stevebs]

Hi

 

I am an owner/occupier of a flat where the management company has decided to re introduce parking permits.

 

There are new signs around the car park stating that you must park in a marked bay and display a permit or you will be liable to a parking ticket of £100.

 

This came into force on Monday 19 November.

 

I went away on Friday 16 November,not using my car which I left in the car park in a marked bay, and returned today.

 

When I went to go out in my car I noticed I had a "Parking Charge Notice" on my windscreen for not displaying a valid parking permit..

 

.I had forgotten to display the permit.

 

Do I have to pay this fine?

 

Would it be best to write and appeal against it?

Help:???:

[havinastella]

Hi I am an owner/occupier of a flat where the management company has decided to re introduce parking permits. There are new signs around the car park stating that you must park in a marked bay and display a permit or you will be liable to a parking ticket of £100. This came into force on Monday 19 November.

I went away on Friday 16 November,not using my car which I left in the car park in a marked bay, and returned today. When I went to go out in my car I noticed I had a "Parking Charge Notice" on my windscreen for not displaying a valid parking permit...I had forgotten to display the permit. Do I have to pay this fine? Would it be best to write and appeal against it?

Help:???:

 

The simple answer is NO, you don't have to pay these parasites anything!

[Stevebs]

Thanks for your response.

 

I am concerned because it says on the ticket that if I don't pay £65 within 14 days of the date the ticket was issued I will have to pay£100 within 28 days.

 

If I ignore that, extra charges will be added for "administration, debt recovery and or court action".

 

I do not want to pay this because I live here and have a right to park here.

 

..all because I didn't have permit on display!

[havinastella]

As I said, they can do exactly NOTHING!

[dx100uk]

its not a ticket

 

its a speculative invoice

 

no statute in any law

 

dx

[Crocdoc]

If you have no intention of paying, the amount of additional charges is completely irrelevant.

 

Ignore

[intend]

I would write to management company - asking if the scheme is to generate income from occupiers or to deter other from parking. If the later tell them to get the ticket cancelled.

[benny46]

I'm an owner of an apartment and Director of the Management Company for our complex, there is no money involved, I am basically looking after my investment by ensuring the complex is managed correctly.

We have 101 apartments but only 60 enclosed parking spaces, all the spaces are owned by which ever apartment has bought them and each owner should display a valid parking permit for its allocated space but if a permit is not displayed and a ticket/speculative invoice is issued it will be cancelled if the owner contacts our managing agent so I would say if you have a ticket and also have an allocated parking space just contact the management company who will have it cancelled.

 

On another note we are now plagued with people parking in other peoples parking spaces, spaces which they have paid up to £14,000 pounds for and pay rates for and we can basically do nothing about.

It is a problem that since clamping has been banned will get worse for owners of parking spaces in gated complexes because if you block someone in who is parked in your space you are committing an offence in law and not the person in your spot.

[DBC]

Simple answer, a lockable drop-down post in front of each bay. You can buy them for under £60 .Much cheaper in the long-run than paying a PPC.

[benny46]

Simple answer, a lockable drop-down post in front of each bay. You can buy them for under £60 .Much cheaper in the long-run than paying a PPC.

 

It wouldn't work for us due to the layout of the car park, with the posts upright and the space empty too many people, like delivery men, bin men, post vans and the residents themselves will be reversing into them and ripping up the car park surface that they are set in costing us even more money to put right.

The solution was clamping, it did work for us but was abused by a lot of companies, our clamper only clamped when a person rang to say someone is parked in their space with no means of knowing who they are or where they are.

Now your £14k parking space is anybodies.

[Surfer01]

What is wrong with a security barrier using a card system?

[DBC]

What is wrong with a security barrier using a card system?

The OP says it's a "gated complex", so access is restricted for non residents. The fact that there is not enough parking spaces for residents is the management's problem, not the owners of the parking spaces.

 

As for delivery vehicles potentially knocking down the posts, are they actually colliding with any cars parked in bays?

[reallymadwoman]

Posts do not have to be at the end of the space to be effective. In the middle works well too.

[benny46]

What is wrong with a security barrier using a card system?

 

It is a gated complex, everybody has a fob for the gates for delivery access and it is the tenants that are abusing the car park because they don't understand or don't want to understand that the spaces are actually owned by Leaseholders.

[benny46]

Posts do not have to be at the end of the space to be effective. In the middle works well too.

 

It is actually a very small car park even though it fits 61 cars, it is in 6 different portions with road access to all portions and believe me the posts would not last a week, we have actually had a lamp post on the paved area knocked down by a delivery van.

The answer is clamping but it is now illegal so the Leaseholders who paid for their parking spaces are not happy bunnies.

From a management point of view there is not a lot we can do as 40% of the complex do not own a parking space so any costs associated with the car park has to be separated from the budget.

[benny46]

The OP says it's a "gated complex", so access is restricted for non residents. The fact that there is not enough parking spaces for residents is the management's problem, not the owners of the parking spaces.

 

As for delivery vehicles potentially knocking down the posts, are they actually colliding with any cars parked in bays?

 

It isn't actually the managements problem, it is the owner of the parking space who has the problem, they arrive home late at night and find there space occupied, some have parked outside and been ticketed by the council for overstaying, there is nothing as a director that I can do and nothing our managing agents can do as you know full well.

As for colliding with the parked cars, we have had one bicycle in a locked space on the paved area and a lamp post on the pavement demolished by vehicles, to have small posts in the parking bays in my opinion would lead to many of them being struck and damaging the road surface as delivery vehicles and visitors will not be aware of them if they are in a tight spot or in a space between two parked cars.

[Surfer01]

It isn't actually the managements problem, it is the owner of the parking space who has the problem, they arrive home late at night and find there space occupied, some have parked outside and been ticketed by the council for overstaying, there is nothing as a director that I can do and nothing our managing agents can do as you know full well.

As for colliding with the parked cars, we have had one bicycle in a locked space on the paved area and a lamp post on the pavement demolished by vehicles, to have small posts in the parking bays in my opinion would lead to many of them being struck and damaging the road surface as delivery vehicles and visitors will not be aware of them if they are in a tight spot or in a space between two parked cars.

The tenant who "owned" or leases the space can claim damages as the offence is trespass. If the tenant has to park outside and incurs a penalty charge, they can rightfully claim it off the person that occupied their leased space. Once one or two tenants have done this and being able to claim damages for £100 plus, the message will soon get around if the court case is posted in a prominent area. The law prevents clamping by companies etc but I am nto sure if ti prevents a individual from clamping a car parked on their property. I think there may be an exception in which case there is nothing preventing the management company from keeping wheel clamps available for a tenant to use.

Management companies and LL have only themselves to blame in many cases for allowing these PPCs to illegally extort money from people on private property.

[benny46]

The tenant who "owned" or leases the space can claim damages as the offence is trespass. If the tenant has to park outside and incurs a penalty charge, they can rightfully claim it off the person that occupied their leased space. Once one or two tenants have done this and being able to claim damages for £100 plus, the message will soon get around if the court case is posted in a prominent area. The law prevents clamping by companies etc but I am nto sure if ti prevents a individual from clamping a car parked on their property. I think there may be an exception in which case there is nothing preventing the management company from keeping wheel clamps available for a tenant to use.

Management companies and LL have only themselves to blame in many cases for allowing these PPCs to illegally extort money from people on private property.

 

Although I wouldn't think many of the Leaseholders would like to clamp a vehicle parked in their parking spot as the Leaseholder would have to leave his own personal details for the person who needs releasing.

On your last sentence I agree in part, opposite our complex is a private car park who were very agressive with their clamping but our complex is different.

Every Tenant or Leaseholder was advised if you don't have a parking space but need to fetch a vehicle in for deliveries, removals, fetching an elderly relative or whatever reason just ring the number on the sign and the parking attendant will advise you where you can park and ask how long you will be and take your vehicle number so we have never been unreasonable it is the Tenants, not Owner Occupiers who are the problem, they see an empty space and just leave their vehicles in them.

We have obviously left the old signage up as a deterrent but the people who know about the law just ignore them.

It is a problem we are struggling to resolve and we shall have to see what "the parking industry" come up with as a legal deterrent.

[Surfer01]

Although I wouldn't think many of the Leaseholders would like to clamp a vehicle parked in their parking spot as the Leaseholder would have to leave his own personal details for the person who needs releasing.

Check and leaseholder cannot clamp. Leaseholder can claim for damages, i.e. ticket because they had to park outside. This is the only way forward and you need one or two leaseholders that are prepared to take it all the way to the small claims court.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Surfer01

[benny46]

There was a reply to this thread that appears to have been removed probably rightly so, it went as such " @Benny46 You could always refund the outrageous amount of £14k charged to people for a bit of land big enough for 1 vehicle and send a notice round saying it's now a first come first serve basis. Then again anyone who can afford to pay £14k for a parking space has more money than sense and probably deserves this kind of crap - get on with it."

 

Firstly it isn't up to anybody to refund the cost of the parking space, that was bought as part of the Lease agreement of the individual apartment.

Secondly, the £14k was for a 999 year lease of the space so it equates to just £14 per year for your own parking spot.

But just to put your comment into prospective, if you own a house with a drive, would you mind people parking on your drive preventing you from doing so when all the roads around your house had parking restrictions on them?

[Surfer01]

Who is going to live for 999 years?

[Homer67]

There was a reply to this thread that appears to have been removed probably rightly so, it went as such " @Benny46 You could always refund the outrageous amount of £14k charged to people for a bit of land big enough for 1 vehicle and send a notice round saying it's now a first come first serve basis. Then again anyone who can afford to pay £14k for a parking space has more money than sense and probably deserves this kind of crap - get on with it.

 

Firstly it isn't up to anybody to refund the cost of the parking space, that was bought as part of the Lease agreement of the individual apartment.

Secondly, the £14k was for a 999 year lease of the space so it equates to just £14 per year for your own parking spot.

But just to put your comment into prospective, if you own a house with a drive, would you mind people parking on your drive preventing you from doing so when all the roads around your house had parking restrictions on them?

 

 

I posted that and yes it was removed and I received a warning which I objected to, bit pointless when you post the same thing though...

 

However I stand by my comment as I think it is morally wrong to charge such an exhorbitant fee for a car parking space and greedy property mangers/developers etc are ruining this country for personal gain and making it impossible for anyone in the normal wage bracket to own property by driving up the prices artificially in exactly this way

 

How can you justify £14k for a parking space? How typical of you to try by saying it's for a 999 year lease - hardly going to get your value out of it then unless someone invents immortality

 

Unless this property is in the centre of any major city and therefore the space has a rentable value it is just not possible

 

Therefore my comment was made, yes it was not helpful and it added very little to the thread but profiteering money grabbers do not rate highly in my realistic world and it made me feel better to vent my spleen

 

How long before this gets removed and I get a red card... I don't want to take the thread off topic but your post demanded a response

Edited December 6, 2012 by Homer67
typo and to add comment about not taking the thread off topic

[Andrew-P]

I have to object to this post.

 

However I stand by my comment as I think it is morally wrong to charge such an exhorbitant fee for a car parking space and greedy property mangers/developers etc are ruining this country for personal gain and making it impossible for anyone in the normal wage bracket to own property by driving up the prices artificially in exactly this way

 

Many property managers are poorly paid and are earning a legitimate and difficult living.

 

How can you justify £14k for a parking space? How typical of you to try by saying it's for a 999 year lease - hardly going to get your value out of it then unless someone invents immortality

 

Its a market price - no one was forced to buy one. It also has a resale value too. You don't need to live this one to get value and pay the equivalent of £14 per annum

 

Unless this property is in the centre of any major city and therefore the space has a rentable value it is just not possible

 

Not true - its not just city centres that have more demand for parking than available spaces - try St Ives in Cornwall for example

 

Therefore my comment was made, yes it was not helpful and it added very little to the thread but profiteering money grabbers do not rate highly in my realistic world and it made me feel better to vent my spleen

 

In the same spirit it helps me to vent my spleen on those who believe in getting something for nothing - can I help myself to your possessions?

 

We have a property manager here who wants to be fair to the owners of the space not profiteer. I think you are confusing someone who wants to do the right thing with those who are [causing problems] profiteers.

 

In the past I have been involved with managing parking and never levied a fine or clamped anyone although I have had some cars moved through safety reasons.

 

Remember the fault here is with those who are stealing other people's parking spaces.