Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Hmm, so.. basically have to rely on the default notice not containing all that it should and the claimant misleading the court for the reason for the application.. and judge lottery : /
    • Which would require a hearing....so the fee would be £255.00
    • When providing a copy of an executed agreement in response to a request under section 78(1) of the Act:   a.     must a creditor provide a photocopy (or other form of complete copy) of the original agreement that was signed by the debtor or at least provide a copy which is derived directly from the original agreement or complete copy thereof? or b.     can a creditor provide a document which is a reconstitution of the original agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself?   It was held that a creditor can satisfy its duty under section 78 by providing a reconstituted version of the executed agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself.   The judge accepted that as a matter of law, section 78 does not itself require any particular explanation as to how the copy was made. However, as a matter of good practice and so as not to mislead the debtor, it is desirable that the creditor should explain that it is providing a reconstituted as opposed to a physical copy of the executed agreement. This will also explain why the copy might otherwise look a little odd. The creditor can also explain in the letter that this procedure is satisfactory under the Act. The judge also provided that the following information needs to be included in the reconstituted copy agreement (assuming of course that it was present in the original):   1.     Heading: Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 2.     Name and address of the debtor 3.     Name and address of the creditor 4.     Cancellation clause applicable to the executed agreement.   All of the above may be provided on a sheet which is separate from the full statement of terms and conditions which also forms part of the reconstituted agreement. The creditor may, however, decide to reconstitute the agreement in a different way so that, for example, the information above is populated electronically onto the same sheet as that which sets out the terms and conditions, or some of them. The judge stated that he did not intend to prescribe the precise form of the reconstituted agreement. The key point is what information it should contain, subject to the point that its format should not be such as to mislead the debtor as to what he agreed to.   The judge also considered whether a statement like the one appearing in the reconstructed application form in Carey referring to the agreement to the terms and conditions "attached" needs to be included in the reconstituted copy. Alternatively if the application form had said "I agree to the terms overleaf", should that statement be included. The judge held that this aspect of the form is not necessary for the purpose of the section 78 copy, although there is nothing to stop a bank from putting it in or indeed from furnishing a copy of the type of application form or signature page that the debtor would have signed, as some banks have done. The statement referring to terms and conditions is not itself prescribed information and the supply of the terms and conditions which were applicable at the time will tell the debtor what he needs to know in terms of the content of what he signed up to, including the presence (or otherwise) of the prescribed terms.   In practical terms what this is likely to mean is that if the creditor chooses to use as the section 78 copy the section 63 copy, which would have been provided to that particular debtor at the time following execution of the agreement, this will be sufficient provided that the information referred to above is supplied. This exercise is not a mere formality. The creditor will need to check carefully that the details of the debtor at the time are correct and that those are the particular terms (including prescribed terms) that he/she agreed to. This is to ensure that it is an honest and accurate copy.   Must a creditor provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (Regulations) as to form, as at the date the agreement was made in order to comply with section 78?   A creditor need not, in complying with section 78, provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Regulations as to form, as at the date the agreement was made.   Must the copy provided under section 78 include the debtor's name and address as at the date when the agreement was made, and if so in what form? The section 78 copy must contain the name and address of the debtor as it was at the time of the execution of the agreement. But the creditor can provide the name and address from whatever source it has of those details. It does not have to take them from the executed agreement itself.     If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, is a copy of the executed agreement as varied, a sufficient copy for the purposes of section 78(1), or must the creditor provide a copy of the original agreement as well?   If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms.     As your agreement is post April 2007  Section 61(1)(a) and 127(3)   Consumer Credit Act 1974 would not apply.   Andy
    • well start a new thread for the court claim.   as for this one i'd await the letter of claim  
    • Useful information...   And....   https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part55
  • Our picks

maitresse

Wrongly accused of Benefit Fraud TWICE! Please help!

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 2510 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

This is long winded, but I will try to keep it short. This has been a nightmare!

 

I married in 2001, and had my first child in 2002. Sadly, my turkish husband was not the man I thought he was(even longer story), and we seperated before my daughter had her first christmas. We briefly tried dating in 2004, then I found out he was living with a woman he was seeing. I then found out I was pregnant again (stupid). I barely saw my husband while pregnant, but he was there for the birth. While in hospital my car was torched outside my house. The newspaper came round to take a picture of myself with my two small children and put an article to try to help me find out who had done this. This terrified me, and because of this my husband decided to stay for a few days after the birth. Two days after, there was an early morning knock at the door. It was the benefits agency. I was questioned about my living arrangements with my husband. I was told that I was lying, that we had never seperated. I couldnt' answer their questions. My husband refused to give me his address. I was told that I must be lying because I had a child with him, and that it takes months to make a baby. I replied that it can take seconds, but they refused to listen. I had an appointment at the jobcentre a few days later for an appointment with a lone parent advisor. When I turned up the receptionist went to inform the woman that I was there for my appointment, and heard the woman exclaim loudly "you are joking! I am surprised she had the nerve to turn up!" It turned out that this woman was the one who had contacted the benefit fraud investigation team.

 

A few weeks later I received the report for me to read. I read it through carefully, and typed my response. The point that I could barely believe was one that said "Her two year old daughter has a strong pronouced turkish accent". This was laughable. I have never heard a strong accent on a two year old, and why would she have that accent anyway, when she lived in bristol? I was asked to attend court, but this was a long distance from me, which I could not afford to get to, and I had two small children for who I could find no babysitter. As their accusations were so unfounded I was able to work my way through the document, and put my point across for each and every point. I though no more of it and posted it, fully expecting this to be sorted out. I was then found guilty at my appeal. Apparently my document that I had sent to the court didnt arrive until two days after the trial. Amazing, considering I posted it several weeks before. I wanted to appeal against their appeal decision, but was told that if I did this, they would have to stop my benefits for the duration of the appeal. What could I do? I had two babies to support. I had to give in . They decided to take £10 per week from my benefits, and have done since 2005. I will be paying them until 2016. The amount they wanted to recover WRONGLY is around £7000.

 

Now, a few weeks ago I received a letter from my local council asking me to come in for an interview under caution about housing benefit. I went along, taking a legal representative with me. Apparently the was an overpayment of £1000 of my housing benefit when I moved. I was totally unaware of this. I went through the interview, recorded on CD. After the interview was over the interviewer told me that because I have previous problems with benefit fraud, that this could mean a criminal conviction for me! I was also told that if I accept responsibility, I only have to pay back the overpayment, but I would have a criminal caution on file. If I refuse to accept responsibility, then I have to pay it back but with an admin charge of 50% added on top. Fair? I really dont think so.

 

I really don't know what to do. I really feel this is all so unfair. My children have gone without for so many years because of their mistake the first time. £4000 that I should have been able to spend on them has never been received. This "black mark" has gone against me when I did nothing wrong.

 

I spoke to my legal representative after the interview, and he was disgusted by my story, and advised me to speak to a solicitor. I also plan to contact my local MP to see what he can do.

 

Can anyone give me any advice. I have done nothing wrong!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, one other quick thing.

 

When the gentleman interviewing me this week showed me the evidence, he showed me the housing benefit form I had filled in in 2007, with the declaration at the bottom saying that I would inform them of any change in my circumstances. The form was filled in in my handwriting, but there was NO signature on the declaration. I wonder how this stands legally against their arguement?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would not fancy your chances if this went to court. You will need a Solicitor and you will need any help your MP can provide. In a court they will just evidence the payments, evidence that you did not inform them of change of circumstances and even though there is no signature, the council will say you were informed. Most Magistrates will just take the word of the legal people representing the council, hence why you need a Solicitor to advise you, to hopefully avoid a conviction.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, with this being a second offence, you need an experienced solicitor to advise you.

 

On the benefit front, processing a claim form that hasn't been signed is an official error on their part - but you would need a solicitor to tell ou whether this will have any impact on the the current situation.


We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office ~ Aesop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It just seems so wrong that the fact that they wrongly accused me before has gone against me this time. wrong wrong wrong!:mad2:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We briefly tried dating in 2004, then I found out he was living with a woman he was seeing. I then found out I was pregnant again (stupid). I barely saw my husband while pregnant, but he was there for the birth. While in hospital my car was torched outside my house. The newspaper came round to take a picture of myself with my two small children and put an article to try to help me find out who had done this. This terrified me, and because of this my husband decided to stay for a few days after the birth.

 

They hear this all the time tbh :sad:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely they should have had to prove that he was living with me, which he wasn't! They shouldn't be able to make an decision based on such silly things as their idea that my two year old daughter had a turkish accent?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They hear this all the time tbh :sad:

 

I'm sure they do, but that does not detract from the fact that the OP wants constructive help.


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm sure they do, but that does not detract from the fact that the OP wants constructive help.

 

Where's yours then?

Yes you're right though, we should say it'll be fine if you didn't do anything wrong, because that always ends up happening. Oh...wait

They would likely have to have more evidence than has been mentioned in this thread to reach a successful prosecution in court, but they don't work on beyond reasonable doubt with over payments, that's based on probability, you need to prove to them someone isn't living with you, & if the guy won't provide proof of where he's been living, apart from being a nasty piece of work, he has left the OP up the creek without a paddle.

I know, that's not really constructive advice but I am a terrible realist, having been on the receiving end of official mistakes & having to attend IUC & pay back money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:focus: If you want to berate me please PM me.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Surely they should have had to prove that he was living with me, which he wasn't! They should, but they don't. For over payment purposes, they go on the probability, not beyond reasonable doubt. They shouldn't be able to make an decision based on such silly things as their idea that my two year old daughter had a turkish accent?
I agree, as do most people I expect, but they have made decisions based on less before. I wouldn't have believed it until I came on here either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Get in touch with your local MP and councilors, if you feel that you have wrongly been accuse of ben fraud, then don't just lie down and accept it, fight it!

 

https://www.gov.uk/contact-jobcentre-plus


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Get in touch with your local MP and councilors, if you feel that you have wrongly been accuse of ben fraud, then don't just lie down and accept it, fight it!

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Boo. I am not taking it lying down, I can tell you! Solicitor and MP getting involved now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I have received my letter telling me what course of action they are taking. How lovely of them. It seems the overpayment was around £900, but I am to pay back an extra 50% on top of that in administrative charges! How is this even legal?? I am more than willing to pay back the overpayment, but that extra charge of £450 is extortion! Any advice on this would be very gratefully received.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's an administrative penalty which has recently increased to 50%.

 

If you do not accept it then they will look at the possibility of prosecuting you instead.

 

You can still appeal against the original decision & overpayment if you disagree with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, I have received my letter telling me what course of action they are taking. How lovely of them. It seems the overpayment was around £900, but I am to pay back an extra 50% on top of that in administrative charges! How is this even legal?? I am more than willing to pay back the overpayment, but that extra charge of £450 is extortion! Any advice on this would be very gratefully received.

 

My advice would be: pay every penny and thank your lucky stars that they aren't pushing this further. This is basically money paid to make this go away, and while you may chafe at the injustice of it all, the other option is to defend your innocence in court. Paying this money isn't an admission of guilt (there used to be cautions for people who admitted guilt but had not committed grievous offences, which are now discontinued for recent offences).

 

If you truly believe that an injustice is being done here, go back to your legal counsel and see what they say, but I almost certain that they will advise you to pay this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What has your MP and Councillors advised?


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...