Betterware Debt

[mali2012]

I was working as a sales agent for Betterware for a few weeks,

but unfortunately didn't work out, so I stopped.

 

As I am having financial difficulties I couldn't pay off the outstanding balance which is just over £600.

 

I didn't sign the sales agent's agreement with Betterware,

but lately they are threatening me with legal action in order to recover the outstanding balance.

 

They asked me to sign and return the agreement,

but I didn't as I wanted to see if it works out before signing the agreement.

 

I read the agreement,

but clause 3.6 states, I quote:

"The first order from the Sales Agent here under will only become binding upon the Sales Agent who will only then become liable to the Purchase Cost of the products

delivered to him/her once the Company has received a copy of this Agreement signed by the Sales Agent and the products in question have been delivered to the Sales Agent."

 

The question is,

can the company take me to court even if I didn't sign the Sales Agent Agreement with them?

 

(I would like to describe here how it works with Betterware:

I was the person who ordered the products from the company.

 

The company is called Betterware and it works in a similar way such as Kleeneze and Avon.

 

I went out and put through people's letterbox catalogues.

Then the customers place their order to me (not to the company).

 

Let's say my customers ordered different products which I, then, ordered them from Betterware.

For example, let's say my orders from my customers were for £1000,

then I ordered these products from Betterware.

 

Once I received the products from Betterware, I delivered my customers their order.

Then I retained 30% commission from the £1000 and paid Betterware £750.)

 

Please could anyone help?

 

Bellow is a copy of their letter:

 

I am writing in connection with the outstanding debt as detailed above, as previous attempts to collect the balance by Wescot Financial Services have proved unsuccessful.

 

Accordingly, within the next 14 days you must respond to this letter by either:

 

1. Sending a cheque to us for the full amount made payable to Betterware Limited.

 

2. Writing to us by email, fax or post providing full details of any queries or dispute to all or part of the claim. If your query concerns only part of the claim, please ensure you enclose payment for the undisputed sum;

 

3. If you are unable to make payment in full, you must write to us admitting the claim and providing your reasonable proposals for payments for us to consider.

 

In the event you require debt advice, free independent advice and assistance can be obtained from organisations including those listed below:

 

National Debtline 0808 8084 000

 

Consumer Credit Counselling Service 0800 1381 111

 

Citizens Advice Bureau

 

Unless you respond by 10 October 2012, court proceedings will be issued for the recovery of the said sum together with interest, court fees and any solicitor’s costs as fixed or assessed by the court without any further notice to you.

 

Please note that the registration of a Decree issued by the Sheriff Court will affect your creditworthiness.

 

Thanks!

[drop47]

Well you should get some legal advice but i would suggest that in absence of the goods which you freely admit you received then you owe the cash and any claim against you would be successful

[mali2012]

But is it a criminal offence?

[drop47]

I don't know,it could be theft or fraud but they are not talking about criminal proceedings are they. Debt in itself is not a criminal offence

[havinastella]

Did you collect the amount from the customers?

[mali2012]

In their letter they say: "Unless you respond by 10 October 2012, court proceedings will be issued for the recovery of the said sum together with interest, court fees and any solicitor’s costs as fixed or assessed by the court without any further notice to you.

 

Please note that the registration of a Decree issued by the Sheriff Court will affect your creditworthiness."

[drop47]

You are in Scotland? I can only comment on English law. You would almost certainly get a ccj awarded against you which would seriously damage your credit rating for the next 6 years. That is in England and Wales . They are talking about civil proceedings and not criminal offence

[mali2012]

I was a distributor (but they call it 'sales agent')

and I placed the order myself for the products from the company.

(It works in a similar way like Kleeneze and Avon.)

 

I went out and put through people's letterboxes catalogues,

then the customers ordered Betterware products from me (not from the company, as the customers have nothing to do with Betterware).

 

Let's say my customers ordered some products which I, then, ordered them from Betterware.

For example, let's say my orders from my customers were for £1000, then I ordered these products from Betterware.

 

Once I received these products from Betterware, I delivered to my customers. I retained 30% , which was my commission and paid Betterware £700 (70%).

 

Let's say if the customers paid for the products in cheque and the cheque bounced,

I had to pay that from my pocket. S

 

I owe the money to Betterware not the customers, the customers owe the money to me.

[drop47]

I fully understand the concept having done it myself. The opinion i was giving was fact based. It is not criminal proceedings they are looking at although if you have deliberately not paid them they could make a complaint to the police

[mali2012]

Thanks drop47.

 

I made an appointment and am going to see a solicitor to seek for legal advice on 15 October. Mainwhile I was thinking to send them an email like this: I acknowledge receipt of your letter and am seeking for legal advice. I am having financial difficulties, however, if you decide to start court proceedings against me I will be making a counterclaim against you.

 

Please don't think I am playing the silly, but when I first started doing Betterware the Sales Executive told me:"I am giving you the best area (which was just about 50 miles from home - one way) of my region where the average is £1.50 per catalogue." I was working for two weeks for about £50, which didn't even cover my expenses.

 

As I was desperate for work, I have restarted again. To begin with, I was blackmailed by the Sales Executive (long story), then, the local area manager told me he will give enough area where to deliver catalogues for 7 to 8 weeks, but he let me down so I had to stop. Since then I found out that the was sacked by Betterware because he messed others up as well.

 

I was working very hard (if you have done it you know yourself) and being honest I loved doing it, but when I saw the way they were treating me I became really angry.

 

At this time I am thinking fighting against them.

 

Please let me know what you think.

 

Thanks.

[Bang!]

Unless it has changed in the last few years, there is no counterclaim in the Scottish small claims procedure, its a new claim. Its also likely that they will say you never earned as you were crap at selling.

 

Being small claims, its limited what they can receive back in fees if/when they win, unless you fail to defend, or offer a dubious defence (you pretty much acted as if the agreement had been signed and if not took their goods without payment).

[Vicky31]

You've obviously received the money from customers and presumably have spent it. That money wasn't yours to spend, so why complain when the company is trying to recover it? Of course it's ultimately criminal to steal someone else's money, whether that's a company or an individual. Pay up!

[mali2012]

Thanks again drop47.

 

Sorry to bother you again.

 

I checked it on the court's website and they say the Scottish Court system allows the defender to make a counterclaim:

3.13 Making a counterclaim

What is a counterclaim?

If the pursuer has raised a claim against you, and you have a claim against him/her arising from the same matter, then, instead of raising a separate action, you can raise your claim against the pursuer in the pursuer’s own action. This procedure is known as making a counterclaim. ...

 

However, if I decide to offer them a monthly token payment till I can pay the outstanding balance, as I am having financial difficulties at the moment (I am making monthly token payments to all my creditors through Citizens Advice Bureau) and they refuse and despite of that they decide to take me to court, would the court accept the fact that I am on debt management plan?!

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks.

[drop47]

I do not understand Scottish law but if this was in England i believe what they are looking for is a county court judgement. This would mean you have to repay the debt. If it was me i would write to betterware in a manner that is not antagonistic and explain your situation and how it came about,then make an offer of repayment that you can afford. If you are not working then offer of£1 per month. As a betterware distributor you were i guess self employed. You may have a claim against betterware if and only if either of the people who lied to you were directly employed by them. If you need help on the technicalities hopefully someone can help you

[drop47]

I think explaining your situation and offering a token payment along with your other debts would be a very wise course of action

Thanks again drop47.

 

Sorry to bother you again.

 

I checked it on the court's website and they say the Scottish Court system allows the defender to make a counterclaim:

3.13 Making a counterclaim

What is a counterclaim?

If the pursuer has raised a claim against you, and you have a claim against him/her arising from the same matter, then, instead of raising a separate action, you can raise your claim against the pursuer in the pursuer’s own action. This procedure is known as making a counterclaim. ...

 

However, if I decide to offer them a monthly token payment till I can pay the outstanding balance, as I am having financial difficulties at the moment (I am making monthly token payments to all my creditors through Citizens Advice Bureau) and they refuse and despite of that they decide to take me to court, would the court accept the fact that I am on debt management plan?!

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks.

[mali2012]

Thanks again drop47.

 

Yes, both were working for Betterware on self-employed basis like myself, but the latter (the Regional Manager) was sacked by the Regional Sales Executive who is still working for the company.

[mali2012]

Hi Vicky31.

 

I appreciate your post. The only think I could suggest to you is to work for Betterware for a while and then, and only then, let me know how you feel.

 

If you are an MP, or GP, or whatever, you could take a break and try Betterware to find it out for yourself how those people feel about these 'pyramid' companies who are using them who try to make a living!

[Bang!]

For Scots Law its the Sheriff Ct. I checked and counterclaims were introduced when the limit went from 750ukp to 3000ukp.

 

I think there is a strong possibility if it did go to court and you attempted to defend, if you lost you there's a high chance you would have "assessed expenses" awarded, which are basically the actual fees a solicitor would charge for attending court outwith the small claims scheme. In addition to this there is an additional hearing to set the level of the expenses, which again attracts more fees and the proof (at least) attracts fees for waiting until the case is heard (on the day).

 

One other thing that may be worth looking into, is if the laws of agency apply to the advice you were given.

[betterware]

Dear Mali2012,

I work in the Finance department at Betterware Head Office.

Betterware only take legal action as a last resort to recover monies owed,we would much rather come to an agreement directly with an individual.

If financial circumstances means repayment is difficult, I suggest youcontact us ASAP to discuss. We are open to discussion with regards torepayments and can hopefully come up with a mutually acceptable repayment planthus avoiding unnecessary legal costs on both sides.

Regards

[Bang!]

If appearing to post as/on behalf of betterware, your ID first needs to be confirmed you are or have the authority to act upon the behalf of betterware.

 

I am sure you can see the reasons for this.

 

A mod/CAG will contact you regarding this.

[peter77]

I can see the shark from Betterware financial department disappeared, deleted the post. Thanks to Bang!'s post. Thanks Bang!

 

I did Betterware myself in the past and have some friends who did it too, but Betterware is a spurious 'pyramid' selling company like Kleeneze. The sales executives, regional managers and coordinators are all sharks. It is easier to find a flying cow in the clouds than an honest Betterware shark.

 

Poor distributors are out in the street in all weather conditions to make a living or some extra money, yet these sharks are never happy with their sales. They have no appreciation toward their distributors whatsoever. The product they are selling you let's say for a pound, the real price the sharks are getting it for is probably five pence the rest is all paid in commissions. Also their products are generally crap.

 

If I could I would make them bankrupt! They shouldn't be allowed to be trading.

[MARTIN3030]

It is good to see reps from companies responding positively to members complaints.

We are happy to embrace this,as long as the intention is genuine,and that it is productive.

To Betterware,can you please read the site posting rules.

[dx100uk]

You've obviously received the money from customers and presumably have spent it. That money wasn't yours to spend, so why complain when the company is trying to recover it? Of course it's ultimately criminal to steal someone else's money, whether that's a company or an individual. Pay up!

 

god thats a freindly 1st post!

 

since when has a debt been a criminal matter?

 

dx

[peter77]

I can see Betterware post back again on this forum; this is outrageous! Creditors (such as banks and Betterware sharks) shouldn't be allowed to join these forums. Creditors sneaking these forums discourage those who have debt problems and are looking for advise. These sharks shouldn't be allowed near they preys.

[mali2012]

I know my legal rights anyway, I won't contact them. Let them spend as much money as possible on court proceedings, I couldn't care less. 1) I have no money or assets, and 2) I may apply for LILA, so let them bark!