stigma puts poor people off claiming essential benefits

[estellyn]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/nov/20/scrounger-stigma-poor-people-benefits

 

 

I have to say I agree about the stigma. I have a blue badge form and am entitled due to HRM, but I haven't completed the form because I'd be scared of using the blue badge due to potential abuse. Instead I pay extra for taxis when I know I won't be able to get parked close to where I'm going - or just stay home.

[citizenB]

This has always been so, especially in older people.

[Dilizjo]

Thought this may be of interest

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/nov/20/benefits-stigma-newspapers-report-welfare

[estellyn]

Thought this may be of interest

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/nov/20/benefits-stigma-newspapers-report-welfare

 

There is already a thread started.

[antone]

Two threads on same topic merged.

[jadeybags]

It's not just stigma, it's fear of them messing up & losing trust in them at times too. I didn't claim housing benefit for over a year when I was entitled to it, because of their incompitence before. Some of us would rather struggle & eat beans on toast than risk having to pay back money when they make mistakes.

[Zonker]

I think there are some who think that if they claim a benefit they have an inaquedacy and have failed in some way. Others may feel by claiming a benefit they have been deafeted by their condition.

[Nystagmite]

I wonder if in part, many don't claim due to how long the claim process (including the forms) is and how difficult it can be to get benefits.

[estellyn]

I think there are some who think that if they claim a benefit they have an inaquedacy and have failed in some way. Others may feel by claiming a benefit they have been deafeted by their condition.

 

Yes despite being a benefit adviser, I refused to claim DLA for quite a few years because it would have meant accepting that I was disabled and I didn't want to.

[worried33]

I have no choice but to claim, I dont have a partner or anyone else who gives me any income.

 

I feel there is the following misleading things in the media today.

 

1 - That benefits are spent on booze and fags and as such are not needed, the claimant uses to supplement other income or doesnt pay their bills. This seems to be a particular assumption noone lives alone.

2 - IB had no PCA, apparently according to ministers a patient's GP simply could pass the claimant onto long term benefit. Apparently WCA is a whole new concept as was previously no vetting.

3 - People are on unemployment benefits because they simply dont try hard enough. So basically noone is too ill to work, there is not less jobs than unemployed etc. its all in the mind.

4 - We get rid of people on unemployment benefits and everything is fixed, this ignores that most of the social security budget goes to pensioners and people in work. 93% of housing benefit claimants are in work, the vast majority of child benefit claimants are in work, some with quite high salaries as well.

 

The question is tho, does this report have any power, or is it just a one day news story then forgotten about.

[Nystagmite]

3 - People are on unemployment benefits because they simply dont try hard enough. So basically noone is too ill to work, there is not less jobs than unemployed etc. its all in the mind.

 

My mum actually said this. The last time she looked for a job (whilst employed) was over 2 years ago.

[jadeybags]

I have no choice but to claim, I dont have a partner or anyone else who gives me any income.

 

I feel there is the following misleading things in the media today.

 

1 - That benefits are spent on booze and fags and as such are not needed, the claimant uses to supplement other income or doesnt pay their bills. This seems to be a particular assumption noone lives alone.

2 - IB had no PCA, apparently according to ministers a patient's GP simply could pass the claimant onto long term benefit. Apparently WCA is a whole new concept as was previously no vetting.

3 - People are on unemployment benefits because they simply dont try hard enough. So basically noone is too ill to work, there is not less jobs than unemployed etc. its all in the mind.

4 - We get rid of people on unemployment benefits and everything is fixed, this ignores that most of the social security budget goes to pensioners and people in work. 93% of housing benefit claimants are in work, the vast majority of child benefit claimants are in work, some with quite high salaries as well.

 

The question is tho, does this report have any power, or is it just a one day news story then forgotten about.

 

Couple of people I know have never been unemployed until they were made redundant & they are DEFINITELY applying for jobs left right n center & not even hearing a no back from most of them, the rest are letting them know it's a no. One was told she was over qualified, she would 'get bored' seriously.

If they started inviting people claiming tax credits fraudulantly to IUC's & stopped giving them interest free loans (that's all it is basically when they get found out claiming more than they should) then there may be more incentive for people not to claim what they aren't supposed to, there will be more money in the coffers, & we might actually get somewhere instead of having to rob disabled peoples benefits off them, which all goes towards being bad for the economy & so on.

[estellyn]

Couple of people I know have never been unemployed until they were made redundant & they are DEFINITELY applying for jobs left right n center & not even hearing a no back from most of them, the rest are letting them know it's a no. One was told she was over qualified, she would 'get bored' seriously.

If they started inviting people claiming tax credits fraudulantly to IUC's & stopped giving them interest free loans (that's all it is basically when they get found out claiming more than they should) then there may be more incentive for people not to claim what they aren't supposed to, there will be more money in the coffers, & we might actually get somewhere instead of having to rob disabled peoples benefits off them, which all goes towards being bad for the economy & so on.

 

Before I became ill, my boss advertised for two part time admin assistants, and got a couple of hundred applications - based on those odds it is virtually impossible to get a job - the best applicants are often still employed elsewhere, they get the job, then their job is advertised, another employed person gets that job and then their job is advertised and so on. Once unemployed it is much harder to get back into work, and the longer out of the job market the harder it is, as you're always competing with people with the same or more experience and more recent work history and references. A lot of jobs also go in house, but due to employment laws have to be externally advertised - so there was never any chance of getting the job anyway.

[san_d]

Actually I have to disagree. When I was claiming JSA I felt a bit odd and shy about me being on the dole, but when I started working for minimum wage I was ridiculed and stigmatized by my flatmates for "working for nothing". I got the impression that being working class is worse than being underclass. All these people who have issues with the unemployed are workers on minimum wage that are to some extent envious.

[Nystagmite]

I would disagree. I've come across people from all walks of life who are envious about all the free things we supposedly get...

[RaeUK]

Not sure where the best place to post this comment is. Never heard of Owen Jones before but full marks to him for his display at the end of tonight's Question Time where he tried to publicise the plight of the disabled on benefits. Ian Duncan Smith retorted, angrily, that he is proud of what he is doing to the benefits system! Has there ever been a more odious man in British politics than IDS?

Edited November 22, 2012 by RaeUK

[Simon7685]

There is most definatly a stigma attached to all benefits nowadays. A large amount of society has a perception that anyone disabled or not that claims benefits is a scrounger, or lazy, or idle and many other more colourfull descriptors.

 

I have a blue badge and have qualified through HRM and previously prior to DLA by means of a walking assessment and examination. However because I am only 46 when I am able to find a disabled bay, I get filthy looks and people even coming over to the car to see if I am going to display a valid badge, not to mention having suffered abuse from non disabled people who assume because you aren't over 70 you shouldn't have one. The laughable part is most of the time you can't ever get parked in a disabled bay for the non disabled people parking there.

 

The irony of the situation as I see it though, is all these people who like to shout their opinions about scrounging benefit claimants, all need to take a look in the mirror. Every single person in this country is the recipient of state benefits. Working Tax Credits, Child Benefit, hospital treatment, doctors appointments, reduced dental care costs, reduced prescription costs, education the list goes on. All these things including the state pension and pension credit are a form of or entirely state benefits. Yes people rightly point out that they have "paid in" through NI all their working lives, however in the vast majority, if not every case, you get out more than you ever pay in.

 

Then there is the continued stigma being attached to Free School Meals, which is now affecting children directly because their parents do not want to apply because they fear being branded a scrounger. These kids end up suffering directly, not to mention the fact that FSM children are now officially classed as being a "vulnerable" group, a group that fail to achieve. These things are happening every day in schools up and down the country. Added to this a lot of schools will provide remission from costs of trips etc, for children entitled to FSM but the parents have to write a letter demeaning themselves and asking for it because they can't afford the cost out of their benefits. Is this correct in todays society? After all the schools know which children are entitled to FSM. The answer is they receive the Pupil Premium for every child that has had a FSM in the lst 6 years but they choose to make parents have to beg, which in reality many choose not to do. So the child suffers or the parent pays and the school in effect gets the money twice.

 

Society nowadays is completely set up to discriminate against people who for whatever reason need to claim welfare benefits of some description and they are stigmatising it from schools upwards.

 

Rant over and lots of things for "discussion", maybe I need to get my tin hat out before the barrage starts:wink:

[Simon7685]

Not sure where the best place to post this comment is. Never heard of Own Jones before but fall marks to him for his display at the end of tonight's Question Time where he tried to publicise the plight of the disabled on benefits. Ian Duncan Smith retorted, angrily, that he is proud of what he is doing to the benefits system! Has there ever been a more odious man in British politics than IDS?

 

Despite some of the things he has overseen, I always thought that deep down there was a genuine guy in there somewhere inside IDS......... Right up until I saw and heard that myself Rae and he deserves to be pilloried from here to Baghdad and back again!

[RaeUK]

Despite some of the things he has overseen, I always thought that deep down there was a genuine guy in there somewhere inside IDS ...

Me too. I really did think he was going to be a lot different to how he's turned out.

[estellyn]

Despite some of the things he has overseen, I always thought that deep down there was a genuine guy in there somewhere inside IDS......... Right up until I saw and heard that myself Rae and he deserves to be pilloried from here to Baghdad and back again!

 

After what you and Rae has said, I'm going to go look if question time is on the iplayer.

[Simon7685]

He was reminded of the plight of the chap that ATOS found fit for work and he died the next day, he had previously had a stroke, was paralysed and blind.

 

IDS shouted at this Owen bloke words along the lline of;

"I didn't hear you screaming when the last lot left 2.5 million people trappped on welfare without hope. Well I am changing that and we are making those 2.5 million get back into work."

He was very animated to say the least. I was hoping for more ATOS related debate myself but I think they all got thrown out before it went live on air.

 

and no mention of his UC baby either!

[up2meears]

Not sure where the best place to post this comment is. Never heard of Owen Jones before but full marks to him for his display at the end of tonight's Question Time where he tried to publicise the plight of the disabled on benefits. Ian Duncan Smith retorted, angrily, that he is proud of what he is doing to the benefits system! Has there ever been a more odious man in British politics than IDS?

 

 

Pity his initials don't read IBS. There is a lot of verbal diarrhoea comes from this individual

[antone]

Pity his initials don't read IBS. There is a lot of verbal diarrhoea comes from this individual

 

IBS = "Ineffective Brain Syndrome", right?

[worried33]

Despite some of the things he has overseen, I always thought that deep down there was a genuine guy in there somewhere inside IDS......... Right up until I saw and heard that myself Rae and he deserves to be pilloried from here to Baghdad and back again!

 

Back when I contacted IDS at the start of this year, he didnt even reply to me. His secretary even rang me up to say she had personally passed my message onto him and asked if he had replied. So she seemed nice enough but not IDS.

[Dilizjo]

IAN DUNCAN SMITH you are proud of what you are doing:?::?::?:Owen Jones did not scream about the 2 million plus parked on benefits for 10 years:?::?: I do take it you are including the 130,000+ of those who had in you departments words 'Diarrhea' and other conditions that you diminished their descriptions, when in fact the majority were suffering life debilitating conditions such as Bowel Cancer etc...... IMHO you personally are one of the worst examples of a human being I have ever known, you have no compassion at all, you roll your eyes and shake your head whenever benefits are raised!!!!!!! Why were you not sat there at the 2 HoC committee meetings held this week about the service given by yourselves and ATOS and it effectiveness on claimants, maybe you didn't want to be seen to do the squirming that your representatives did when they did not have the figures and statistics the committees were asking for.

 

BBC not very good planning of the questions there really....... not enough time to cover that subject at all:mad2:

 

Owen Jones I applaud you and thank you for your truthful and passionate input.

 

Lady in the back shouting.... I applaud you as well, we all need to shout or this situation will just keep getting swept under the carpet...

 

OK rant over