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HALIFAX PPI and SAR rejection - advice needed

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Hi all,

 

I would be grateful if you could read though the 2 letters and give me some advice. Am trying to claim my PPI back from Halifax and have had a rejection letter to which I replied with the response and SAR request letter below.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

This is a response to your letter dated 18th October which contained a reply to my complaint about PPI policies sold by Halifax bank. Please note I am unhappy with the decision and am requesting a SAR – Subject Access Request.

 

I understand that you currently hold details of my personal and financial information within your internal record systems with regard to personal loan accounts and credit cards accounts

 

 

 

 

I would be grateful if you would provide the following for ALL accounts or associated accounts I hold or have held with your organisation:

  1. Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organisation, including true copies of any documents you hold in support of the same.
  2. A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to ALL of my Loan Accounts with your organisation.
  3. Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.
  4. Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organization or third party which contains my personal or financial, or which pertains to me.
  5. Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.
  6. Full hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.
  7. Underwriting sheet or other such document recording any commission (or other) payment made to an intermediary or packager, and/or payment/commission from the insurer in relation to my account.

Where you have used abbreviations and/or codes, I would request that an accompanying sheet be provided so as to translate these abbreviations and/or codes and their meanings, I also request an accompanying appendix of the documents included and reference to the purpose or meaning to those documents.

 

I request that you provide all the information requested above, even though you may consider that it falls outside Data Protection.

 

I reserve the right to refer to the contents of this letter if an application for pre-action discovery is necessary relating to any of the documents requested herein.

 

I enclose a payment in the sum of £10 to cover your fee. You have 40 days to comply with this request.

 

IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS REQUEST, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIALTELY FORWARD IT TO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROTECTION.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt.

 

Your Faithfully.

 

X

 

 

I had a letter back from Halifax responding the above which is below

 

Dear Miss X

 

Further to your letter dated 29 October 2012 in which you rejected our decision not to uphold your Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) policy complaint, I have reconsidered your complaint in light of further information provided.

 

When you replied to us you stated the following:

 

· You were unhappy with our decision .

· You wish to have a Subject Access Request.

 

On considering this information I do not believe it introduces anything that changes the original decision and I am still unable to agree that the policy was mis-sold.

 

Having completed all these steps, I went on to look at your compliant as a whole to ensure that we acted fairly towards you in relation to the sale of your PPI policy, giving appropriate weight and balanced consideration to all available evidence including any further information supplied by you.

 

Although your new information adds some useful further background I am still unable to agree that the policy was mis-sold.

 

As such, I am still unable to agree that your complaint should be upheld.

 

If you should wish to contact me directly my details are at the top of this letter. If I do not hear from you I will close your complaint and consider it resolved.

 

When we issued our original decision we advised you of your right to refer your concerns to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS), and that you has six months from the date of that letter in which to do so. You are still within this timescale so you are within your rights to refer the complaint to the FOS. I have enclosed a leaflet which gives details of how you can get in touch with them.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Halifax

 

Am just after some advice really, are Banks lawfully required to respond to a SAR request ?

I really want all the SAR information so I can read though and look at the complaint myself.

There is no mention of my £10 payment for the SAR that I enclosed.

 

Kind regards

 

Damien

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Have they cashed the cheque for the SAR?

 

A SAR shouldn't really be a letter in response to one of theirs, it should ideally be on its own. It hasn't got anything to do with a PPI claim.

 

However, I would write back and tell them that a valid Subject Access Request has been sent to them and that their 40 days for compliance is still running (if the 40 days are not up yet) and that you expect a response within the prescribed timescale.

 

You don't give any information above about your PPI claim.

 

Loan or credit card?

 

what were the reasons you gave for the mis-sale?

 

What were their reasons for not upholding the claim?


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1. Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

2. Reclaim mis-sold PPI

Read Here

3. Reclaim Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

4. The CAG Interest Tutorial

Read Here

5. Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

6. Staying Calm About Debt

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7. Thinking of a Full & Final Settlement?

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Have they cashed the cheque for the SAR?

 

A SAR shouldn't really be a letter in response to one of theirs, it should ideally be on its own. It hasn't got anything to do with a PPI claim.

 

However, I would write back and tell them that a valid Subject Access Request has been sent to them and that their 40 days for compliance is still running (if the 40 days are not up yet) and that you expect a response within the prescribed timescale.

 

You don't give any information above about your PPI claim.

 

Loan or credit card?

 

what were the reasons you gave for the mis-sale?

 

What were their reasons for not upholding the claim?

Morning ims21

I sent a postal order as payment for the SAR so don’t know if it has been cashed as yet. The PPI claim was for 2 loans organised over the phone by Halifax, I sent a standard PPI from stating my mis-sold reasons as:

I feel I was not given the correct information when the policy was sold to me, as

1. your representative implied that taking out the policy would assist my credit application.

2. your representative was very pushy in selling me the policy so that I felt I could not say no.

3. your representative did not tell me that the policy was optional

4. your representative stated / implied that taking out the policy was essential for me to get the associated credit

5. your representative did not give me full information on what the policy would and would not cover.

6. I am concerned the representative that sold me the policy has no financial background and the policy was not sold in my best interests

To be honest I was in severe financial difficulties when I took out the loans, the first loan was to consolidate several debts and the second was a top up a year later.

The below is from their rejection letter:

Findings

In order to address the concerns you raised, I have reviewed all the available sale related evidence. I have established that you applied for your loan PPI policy for loan XXXXXXX on the phone on 14th November 2006 and loan XXXXXXX on the phone on 29th August 2007.

To further assist my investigation I have taken the following into consideration:

· Your demands and needs statement

· Your complaint letter and questionnaire

· Your Consumer credit agreement

· Our knowledge of our sales process and documentation at the time

· Your sales documentation – policy booklet, policy summary, statement of price

All your complaint points have been fully considered. For clarity, I have addressed your allegations under the following headings.

· Suitability – Was your PPI policy suitable for you?

· Policy features and limitations – Were the policy benefits and exclusions explained to you clearly?

· Optionality- Were you made aware that the policy was optional?

· Pressure- Were you pressured into taking out the policy?

· Advice and Disclosure- Did our advisor’s recommendation sufficiently reflect your demand and needs? Were our sevices and status explained correctly?

Suitability – Relating to complaint point 6

The documentation confirms that the advisor completed a Demands and Needs statement with you at the point of sale. The advisor’s recommendation was based on your answers to the eligibility and suitability questions.

In addition, I have looked back to consider your circumstances at the point of sale taking into account any additional information that has been supplied with your complaint to ensure that the Demands and Needs statement was completed correctly. It should also be noted that I have considered all aspects of suitability and not just those raised in your complaint.

These can be summarised as follows:

Existing Protection – you did not have any other appropriate means by which you could protect the payments of your credit account.

Pre existing medical conditions – you were not suffering from any pre existing medical conditions that would affect your full use of the PPI policy.

Affordability – an affordability check confirms that you could meet the expense of your PPI policy in addition to your living expenses and other financial commitments.

Value for Money – we have calculated that the total cost of the policy was less than the maximum value of benefits, even when excluding life cover.

Change in circumstances - The questions asked by the advisor indicate that there was a discussion/investigation into likely changes in your future circumstances and we have not seen evidence of any event that would have affected the suitability of the policy in the foreseeable future.

Level of cover – The documents considered demonstrate the level of cover provided was appropriate when taking into account your circumstances and the policy recommended was designed specifically for the credit agreement.

Refinanced or Repaid loans – In order to assess whether a single premium policy was suitable for you we have considered all of your circumstances, including the likelihood at the time of sale that you would refinance your loan, whether you did actually refinance. We have concluded that it was not inappropriate to have recommended a single premium to you.

Exclusions – your status at the point of sale confirmed in your application meant you were not significantly affected by any of the exclusions or limitations associated with your PPI policy.

Having completed my assessment and reviewing the above both singularly and holistically, I believe that the policy was suitable for you.

Policy Features and Limitations – Relating to complaint point 5

The documentation that you were provided with both at the point of sale and after purchasing your PPI policy, such as the policy summary and policy booklet, fully explained the benefits and limitations of this policy. I am also of the opinion that this was brought to your attention at the time of sale. Accordingly, your knowledge of these features was not solely reliant on you reading the documentation in your own time.

Having considered all the available evidence including the policy booklet, I have come to the conclusion that the features of the policy were adequately presented to you.

Optionality – Relating to complaint points 1, 2, 3 and 4

I can confirm it has never been a requirement to take out a PPI policy in order for a loan application to be accepted. In addition, taking out a PPI policy would not have improved the chances of your application being accepted.

I am also aware that the CCA clearly demonstrated to you that your PPI was optional and I have concluded that the advisor did not mislead you in any way.

I have therefore come to the conclusion that you were made aware of the optional nature of your PPI policy.

Pressure – Relating to your complaint point 2

I note that in your allegation you felt pressured into purchasing your PPI policy.

Having reviewed all the evidence available including your CCA, I am not able to conclude that the sale was pressured.

It should also be noted that having reassessed your demands and needs it is apparent that the policy was suitable. It therefore follows that the adviser’s recommendation that the policy should be taken was not incorrect.

Advice and Disclosure – Relating to your complaint point 6

The Demands and Needs statement enclosed with this letter clearly shows that an in depth analysis of your circumstances at the time of sale was carried out.

I am aware you were provided with an Initial Disclosure Document/quoted our Initial disclosure. I am therefore satisfied that we met our regulatory obligations to inform you of the following information:

The products that we offered.

Which service would we provided you with.

Any cost associated with our services.

Any fees associated with advising and arranging the insurance.

Who regulates us.

Our ownership.

What to do if you have a complaint.

If we are covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS).

As our Initial Disclosure Document/ initial disclosure confirmed, we were only obliged to inform you of the policies we could offer. I can verify that the adviser had no alternative policies to consider or offer to you.

It cannot therefore be concluded that based on the evidence available the advice and disclosure given was inappropriate in the circumstances.

Conclusion

In light of my findings, I feel that our adviser acted fairly and reasonably throughout the sale. I have found nothing to suggest that you were compelled into taking out the policy.

I believe that the information provided at the time of sale was a fair presentation of the features of the policy and explained the policy exclusions and total cost of the insurance. I am also of the opinion that it was a clear, fair and not misleading therefore allowing you to make a fully informed choice.

My review has not highlighted any failings with the sale that would lead me to believe your decision to purchase your PPI policy would have changed.

The paragraph relating to complaint point 6 states there was a Demands and Needs statement enclosed with the letter which there was not, also the Conclusion paragraph states the total cost of the insurance was explained which I don’t believe it was at the time of sale.

I would have never taken out the policy if it was explained that I would have to pay interest on the single premium policy over the term of the loan.

Can someone advise the next best steps ?

Kind regards

Damien

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I would get back to them and point out that the D&N Statement was not enclosed and that you want it.

 

In addition you should go through each of their points and refute them as necessary putting your own arguments forward.

 

Tell them that simply saying that "knowledge of their sales process at the time" is not in itself relevant...anyone can say that.

 

Also put emphasis on the fact that you were not told that that it was interest bearing.

 

Most of the points they mention from "Existing Protection" to "Exclusions" are not relevant.

 

Having reviewed all the evidence available including your CCA, I am not able to conclude that the sale was pressured.
How would he/she know? They weren't present at the time.

 

These are a few pointers but the general gist is to challenge all of those points that you disagree with (which will be most of them).


If I have helped you please leave me a message by clicking my star

 

1. Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

2. Reclaim mis-sold PPI

Read Here

3. Reclaim Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

4. The CAG Interest Tutorial

Read Here

5. Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

6. Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

7. Thinking of a Full & Final Settlement?

Read Here

 

How To Upload Documents To Cag

Instructions

 

I DON'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM BUT IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

 

 

 

Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are perhaps inappropriate for posting on the main forum. Site rules explain this in more detail.

 

If you receive a private message which you consider abusive, derogatory or otherwise inappropriate, whether it be about yourself or other members, please report it using the "report" icon

 

If you are approached (or have been approached) by private message with an offer of help "Off Forum" or with a view to asking you to visit another website, please inform the site team via the report icon, especially if this results in a request for a fee. Remember, this is for your own protection

my views are my own and are given in good faith to try and help people. Please seek professional advice on your case if necessary

 

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A SAR should be sent to their data controller on its own. However, you did use the standard template which requires that they forward it to the person responsible. Therefore it is a valid request. You should send a letter to their Data Protection Controller to ensure that they know about the request.

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Having reviewed all the evidence available including your CCA, I am not able to conclude that the sale was pressured.

What is a CCA ?

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What is a CCA ?

 

Consumer Credit Agreement

Edited by ims21

If I have helped you please leave me a message by clicking my star

 

1. Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

2. Reclaim mis-sold PPI

Read Here

3. Reclaim Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

4. The CAG Interest Tutorial

Read Here

5. Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

6. Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

7. Thinking of a Full & Final Settlement?

Read Here

 

How To Upload Documents To Cag

Instructions

 

I DON'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM BUT IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

 

 

 

Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are perhaps inappropriate for posting on the main forum. Site rules explain this in more detail.

 

If you receive a private message which you consider abusive, derogatory or otherwise inappropriate, whether it be about yourself or other members, please report it using the "report" icon

 

If you are approached (or have been approached) by private message with an offer of help "Off Forum" or with a view to asking you to visit another website, please inform the site team via the report icon, especially if this results in a request for a fee. Remember, this is for your own protection

my views are my own and are given in good faith to try and help people. Please seek professional advice on your case if necessary

 

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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Hi,

 

I have just drafted a reply letter below, any comments much appreciated.....

 

I am writing in response to your letter dated 21st September stating that you are not upholding my complaint.

 

Your response letter states:

 

I have established that you applied for your loan PPI policy for loan 7XXXXXXXXX on the phone on 14th November 2006 and loan 7XXXXXXXX on the phone on 29th August 2007.

 

I applied for the Halifax loans over the phone on these dates not PPI, I have already requested a SAR for Information relating to these loans which asked for the following.

 

  1. Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format

As all telephone conversations are recorded, I would expect this to include phone conversations which took place on 14th November 2006 and 29th August 2007.

 

Please send copies of the above telephone conversations.

Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, identify the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

The total cost of the Insurance was explained at the time of sale

I can assure you the total cost of the single premium PPI, including interest was not told to me at the point of sale

I was not told the policy was interest bearing or the actuality that this was in fact another loan on the loan that you paid to term with interest, or that if I settled the loan early or cancelled the PPI I would have only received a pro rata rebate for the PPI and on settlement of the loan after the rebate, the remaining PPI was paid back to the loan in the settlement, had I cancelled the PPI I would have been given a rebate of the PPI but the remaining PPI would still be on the loan to term end with interest.

 

May I also add that the PPI tick box on loan agreement form 7XXXXXXXX was not ticked indicating that I did not wish to purchase PPI cover for the loan.

There is no mention on my annual loan statements of PPI or how much interest I paid on it.

I am asking you to review the claim as I will pass my complaint to the FOS if the points raised above are not looked at. May I also remind you that the FSA are punishing banks who have not investigated complaints properly and also if they have rejected genuine complaints.

I expect a response to this letter within 14 days.

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