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Guest sniper786

This case is quite unusual, but I am determined to make an example of the Bailiff, TASK Enforcement and TfL. They are all [deleted]!!! I am a very resourceful and determined person. I dont give up. I do not have a legal background, hence I am here to seeking advice and guidance so that I can hold these people accountable for their actions in a court room. My anger is not motivated by the loss of my money, but simply by the behavior of these [companies] who manipulate and [seek to obtain money from] people legally. My motivation comes from reading about thousands of people on this forum who ALL have been mishandled in a similar way.

 

Not too long ago, I had 2 bailiffs turn up at my door demanding £373 for a TfL PCN my brother had not paid a year ago. My brother and I share similar names (ask the parents), for arguments sake, my name is Adam John Smith and my brothers name is Joe John Smith. My brother was given a courtesy vehicle from Enterprise Rental when his car went into the garage. He got a PCN from TfL which he disputed for some reason and didn't pay.

 

I told the bailiff that my brother no longer lives at the address and I dont know where he is. The bailiff asked for my name, which I gave, and he said I was the person he was looking for, John Smith. I said "Thats impossible...why would you be looking for me since this has nothing to do with me"....He asked me for my DOB....which I gave....He said that this matched with his records...I asked to be shown this record and warrant....He claimed he was not obliged to show this to me. I then became suspect of whether he had my DOB or not. Where did he get my DOB from? DPA 1998 breach somewhere....or he's lying.

 

I told them to go away, but the second bailiff would not move his foot from my front door. So i called the police. The police arrived an hour later. The bailiff spoke to the officer before they spoke to me which I found extremely annoying since I called for them. The bailiff showed some documentation to the police officer and got them on their side before they spoke to me.

 

The police then heard my story. I told them I am not my brother and if they check the vehicle hire agreement, the drivers license on the agreement would be different from mine. This was not at hand, but surely the bailiff should have this document. This would go to prove I was not my brother. Police was NOT at all helpful in this situation. They actually made it worse it seems. I am making a complaint to the Police about the officer concerned.

 

After 2 hours of arguments, the second bailiff walked into my house and threatened me if I didn't pay. The police did nothing to stop this trespass and watched him do it. I was then forced to pay the debt. The debt then suddenly changed from £373 to £799.34 (Its funny how this figure is exactly the same as another Task Enforcement case in this forum /forum/showthread.php?371939-Bailiffs-Fee-s-I-have-been-ripped-off-what-can-I-do

 

I wrote to TfL looking for a refund of the fees since the debt was not mine. I proved it to them by sending them a copy of my drivers licence. They had a look at the enterprise rental agreement, and confirmed on the phone that I was not the person who hired the vehicle since the DL numbers did not match.

 

I spoke to TASK Enforcement and asked them where they obtained my DOB, the lady on the phone said, there is no DOB information on this case. Did the bailiff make a not of my DOB when he asked me and use this against me?

 

In the "Letter Before Action" to TfL, I asked why the fees went from £373 to £799.34, they responded with a breakdown which included

 

Case Received £202

Letter Fee £13.44

1st Visit £68.08

2nd Visit £71.82

Attendance to Remove £192.08

Aborted Removal £234.00

Payment Surcharge £17.92

 

What on earth is Attendance to Remove and Aborted Removal. These were dated the same as the 2nd visit date. Are they allowed to charge for card surcharge? On the 1st visit, we told them that my brother does not live here, they went away. Did they not get it the first time..!!

 

TfL refuse to return my money since they now apparently believe I am my brother....:x .... I want to recover my money and make this bailiff pay for his lies to me and the police. TfL say that they they believe Task Enforcement has charged within their statutory guidelines. Can anyone verify if this is true? I paid on my VISA card....

 

TfL say no DPA 1998 breach has occured since the bailiff company use DBs where DOB is given.....I will request to see what information they hold on me.

 

Any tips on how I should proceed with this case would be appreciated. I want to teach all of these people a lesson, and I believe I have a strong case also.

Edited by antone
Modifying language

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You certainly have a strong case against the bailiff and company. What they have charged is daylight robbery.

As for the police, again you have a good cause for a complaint.

 

I would first off make a complaint to the council who issued the pcn, address it to the CEO of the council and mark it as formal complaint. I would send a copy to the bailiff company.

 

If you paid via visa card (not visa debit) you may be able to do a charge back.

 

To request information from the bailiff company you will have to send off a SAR (subject access request) unfortunately this will cost you £10.00, but if you can prove your case then you may be able to get it refunded.

 

Be prepared for this to take some time getting it sorted if you cannot get your money refunded from the visa card.

 

You may get lucky after you complain, but its doubtful.

 

You could and I advise you do, is to speak with your MP or local councillor and get them involved, they may be able to speak with the council on your behalf.

 

Just to let you know that the council are fully responsible for all actions of the bailiff, they may state that you have to deal with them, but stick to your guns (read the links provided)

 

Need to also point out that a bailiff cannot force entry, he cannot place a foot in the door to prevent you from closing it, and what he has charged is way over the top and there are no provisions in the regulations that allow some of these charges.

 

Have a read through the links I have provided and get yourself familiar with them.

 

I am in no doubt that others will give further, excellent advise and I am sure will cover anything I have missed.

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/courts/bailiffs-enforcement-officers/national-standards-enforcement-agents.pdf

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/1857/made

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/40/section/78

 

Check that both bailiffs were certificated http://certificatedbailiffs.justice.gov.uk/CertificatedBailiffs/ Please let us know if they were not certificated. When looking make sure you get the spelling correct, just the surnames would do.

 

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/en/Pages/your_complaint_.aspx

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1967/58/section/4

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1967/58/section/5

 

Also request a copy of the levy. This is very important.

 

This will be enough, hopefully to get you started. :)

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Get your MP involved, as TFL are one of those quangos, they think they are above councils and the law, complaint to Mp should also indicate where the police have acted potentially unlawfully by supporting the bailiff.

Edited by brassnecked

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Before commenting further can you confirm whether or not the bailiff provided you with a Notice of Seizure ( Form 7) .

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Sorry,

 

Were you given a breakdown of fees by the bailiff at the time of payment?

 

The figures that you have provided above do not appear correct. Were these figures provided by TfL or Task?

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Before commenting further can you confirm whether or not the bailiff provided you with a Notice of Seizure ( Form 7) .

 

Just noticed that there was no levy charges. Am I correct in assuming TT, that if no levy is made then no Attendance to Remove or

Aborted Removal fees can be applied?

 

I see now that the bailiffs have invented a new fee to bump up their cost's, one that I, presume is not in the sch 5.

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Guest sniper786

Hi seanamarts

 

I would first off make a complaint to the council who issued the pcn, address it to the CEO of the council and mark it as formal complaint. I would send a copy to the bailiff company.

 

I have made a complaint outlining most of the above, and CC'd Task Enforcement. They responded with the breakdown and believe TE behaved within the statutory guidelines. Clearly this person who responded has no idea what he's talking about or is taking their side for his own benefit.

 

Please let us know if they were not certificated. When looking make sure you get the spelling correct, just the surnames would do.

 

Ive checked, he is there. Mr ******. I didnt get the name of the other guy who attended.

 

Need to also point out that a bailiff cannot force entry, he cannot place a foot in the door to prevent you from closing it, and what he has charged is way over the top and there are no provisions in the regulations that allow some of these charges.

 

Would you have the link to the legislation where it states this, so I can use this for the IPCC and in my response to TfL.

 

Also request a copy of the levy. This is very important.

 

What would this show me. Sorry, just trying to understand what im asking for just incase the person I speak to as TASK throws a blank at me. Im thinking of asking this from TfL? or shall I go direct to TE?

 

You could and I advise you do, is to speak with your MP or local councillor and get them involved, they may be able to speak with the council on your behalf.

 

I think I might just do that. What the bailiff companies do is unlawful. It makes me very angry to hear that other people in this forum are facing similar issues and nothing, it seems, is being done about it. Aside from this forum, where we have individuals who can help others with their knowledge, there isnt much support for people on the internet on how to deal with these issues. DirectGov doesnt have much information. All of this needs to change.

 

I appreciate all the links you have provided. I have read them all. Will be making notes of these.

Edited by sniper786

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Guest sniper786
Sorry,

 

Were you given a breakdown of fees by the bailiff at the time of payment?

 

The figures that you have provided above do not appear correct. Were these figures provided by TfL or Task?

 

I wasn't given a breakdown. Just a receipt with the amount of £799.34. Tfl provided these figures to me as I refuse to speak to TE as they were appointed by TfL. TfL is liable for its bailiffs under the Local Authorities (Contracting Out of Tax Billing, Collection and Enforcement Functions) Order 1996.

He refused to show me the warrant or the DOB documentation. Is this correct or was he pulling a fast one.

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Guest sniper786
Before commenting further can you confirm whether or not the bailiff provided you with a Notice of Seizure ( Form 7) .

 

I cant remember if they did. How can I find out?

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You need to edit out the name of the bailiff. If you cannot do this then please report this to the site team by using the grey triangle at the bottom of the post. :)

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Quote:I told them to go away, but the second bailiff would not move his foot from my front door. So i called the police. The police arrived an hour later. The bailiff spoke to the officer before they spoke to me which I found extremely annoying since I called for them. The bailiff showed some documentation to the police officer and got them on their side before they spoke to me.

 

The police then heard my story. I told them I am not my brother and if they check the vehicle hire agreement, the drivers license on the agreement would be different from mine. This was not at hand, but surely the bailiff should have this document. This would go to prove I was not my brother. Police was NOT at all helpful in this situation. They actually made it worse it seems. I am making a complaint to the Police about the officer concerned.

 

This seems to be 'normal' behaviour from police and bailiffs, I think you will find that as soon as they realised that you had phoned the police the bailiff phoned the police, and the police 'forgot' that you phoned them first. The police do tend to speak to the bailiff when they arrive as they presume that the police and the bailiff are on the same side, law enforcers against the rest of us, the police do let the bailiffs in when they arrive. I would be surprised if you get a satisfactory response from IPCC, I have wondered for some time now, with all this going on, that the police really receive no training in dealing with bailiffs or some sort of instruction comes from 'higher up'. I am in the middle of this at the moment and you will find that everyone involved will join together and completely blank you but keep on at them, they are only getting themselves into more trouble, and with so much of this appalling behaviour there are people who think something has to change, I hope to be able to give some news in a couple of weeks which may help it all come tumbling down

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Guest sniper786

I dont blame the officer for not knowing about the bailiff laws, I blame the police force for not taking these issues for seriously and providing the necessary training. What I did not like was the fact these 2 officers turned up, looked at me, heard a version of events first from the baliff, then looked at me like I was some criminal. I'm a director of 2 companies and work in the finance sector, I might've had my hoody on since thats the first thing I grabbed at 6.30am, but I am no criminal or a dishonest person. This officer took sides with the bailiff and allowed the bailiff to trespass, and now im in this situation.

 

It says on the IPCC, an officer must

  • act with honesty and integrity, fairness and impartiality
  • treat members of the public and their colleagues with respect
  • not abuse their powers and authority
  • act in a manner that does not discredit or undermine public confidence in the police service.

I can tell you now, 2 of those points were not adhered to, first and last.

 

Look forward to knowing how you get on with your complaint.

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Hi seanamarts

 

 

 

I have made a complaint outlining most of the above, and CC'd Task Enforcement. They responded with the breakdown and believe TE behaved within the statutory guidelines. Clearly this person who responded has no idea what he's talking about or is taking their side for his own benefit.

 

I suggest you take the complaint to stage 2. Its very rare for the council to know what they are talking about with regards to bailiff, they will 99% of the time, take the word of what the bailiffs says,

 

Ive checked, he is there. Mr ******. I didnt get the name of the other guy who attended.

 

 

 

Would you have the link to the legislation where it states this, so I can use this for the IPCC and in my response to TfL.

 

I will do one better and show and link you to an actual court document where the judge states it is overstepping the bailiffs authority

 

 

 

What would this show me. Sorry, just trying to understand what im asking for just incase the person I speak to as TASK throws a blank at me. Im thinking of asking this from TfL? or shall I go direct to TE?

 

It will show you what the bailiff has seized, if he hasnt done a levy then he cannot add these two fee's Attendance to Remove £192.08

Aborted Removal £234.00

 

 

 

I think I might just do that. What the bailiff companies do is unlawful. It makes me very angry to hear that other people in this forum are facing similar issues and nothing, it seems, is being done about it. Aside from this forum, where we have individuals who can help others with their knowledge, there isnt much support for people on the internet on how to deal with these issues. DirectGov doesnt have much information. All of this needs to change.

 

I appreciate all the links you have provided. I have read them all. Will be making notes of these.

 

courtletter1f.jpg

 

If you need an unedited version for your complaints I can arrange to link you to a copy.

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The police are there to keep the peace, this is a civil matter and they are not allowed to help the bailiff gain access to your property.

 

You should of asked on what authority allows them to gain access.

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As I have said before, if you are charging an "attending to remove" fee then firsty, the "intention MUST be real". The "attending to levy" fee (according to TfL) is £68 for the 1st visit and £71for the 2nd such visit.

 

A significantly greater fee of £192 (which by the way is 3 times the amount allowed for "attending to levy" ) has been charged. The reason why the figure is so much greater is quite simple.......the bailiff is "attending to remove" and therefore, he must ensure that he has attended with a suitable vehicle to undertake the "removal".

 

The "Aborted removal fee" is very serious indeed and I have actually written recently to TfL on this precise fee.

 

Also, in the unlikely event that a bailiff company have been charged an "aborted van removal" fee by an outside contractor, then if requested, they need to be able to provide evidence of the charge....ANY OF THE PAYMENT MADE BY THEM.

 

This is an obvious requirement because, it is possible that the "outside contractor" had issued a credit note !!!

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A removal vehicle must be suitable for the job at hand, so Bully bailiff turning up in a Berlingo to tow a 3.5 tonne van amd charging a van fee is a no no.


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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Guest sniper786
If you need an unedited version for your complaints I can arrange to link you to a copy.

 

Super! Thank you very much for this. Questio...would this now invalidate in the eyes of the law the whole bailiff action? i.e. would one be able to claim the whole amount back from via the courts because this had been done without argument? Can I make a Form 4 complaint against the bailiff without any delay?

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A Form 4 Complaint is a NO GO.

 

In making a Form 4 Complaint you will need to satisfy the court that the bailiff has done something so very serious that the court have to consider removing his certificate and thereby his ability to ever work as a bailiff again.A bailiff will almost certainly be given set fees to charge by his employer.

 

Any complaint MUST be made to the local authority ( whose name appears on the warrant).

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Guest sniper786

A significantly greater fee of £192 (which by the way is 3 times the amount allowed for "attending to levy" ) has been charged. The reason why the figure is so much greater is quite simple.......the bailiff is "attending to remove" and therefore, he must ensure that he has attended with a suitable vehicle to undertake the "removal".

 

He turned up in a van not big enough to fit my plasma TV.....besides, he probably had the back full of wheel clamps for his next job.

 

This is an obvious requirement because, it is possible that the "outside contractor" had issued a credit note !!!

 

So you mean to say, they may have called an external company to come collect the goods from my house? but then later cancelled this?

 

How can they levy on my goods when it has nothing to do with my brother. Doesnt the whole thing become fraudulent since they were levying on goods which had nothing to do with the debt?

 

If there are two people living at the same address with similar names, who's responsibity is it to prove the person they are talking to is the debtor? Bailiff or mine?

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"If there are two people living at the same address with similar names, who's responsibity is it to prove the person they are talking to is the debtor? bailifflink3.gif or mine?"

 

The bailiff must satisfy themselves that the person they are talking to is the debtor, if you show ID that proves you are not the named debtor then the bailiff should withdraw. If the bailiff disregards this and levies anyway on third party goods then TFL are the target as they are responsible for the actions of their agent the bailiff, so if they towed my motor for my brothers debt, it would be TFL I would be suing jointly with their bailiff, notwithstanding that the removal would be theft in those circumstances, but getting the police to treat it as such would be harder than getting a neutered tomcat to breed kittens with a spayed bull terrier.


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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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