ATOS getting a grilling live on now...

[Dilizjo]

Am listening to this now it is very interesting..... You can play it from the start

 

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=11821

[estellyn]

Thanks, watching right now from the beginning. Have to say the DWP perm secretary comes across as a slimy git, IMO.

[Dilizjo]

Indeed, he cannot answer a question that is thrown at him.....

 

I think the chairwoman is doing a great job:)

[honeybee13]

Great spot, Dianne.

 

I've watched quite a lot of it, will view the rest in the archive later. x

[estellyn]

Indeed, he cannot answer a question that is thrown at him.....

 

I think the chairwoman is doing a great job:)

 

Yes she's trying not to let him get away with his evasions.

[estellyn]

Why does she remind me of Ann Robinson???

[reallymadwoman]

It won't let me watch cos I don't have a windows machine.

[estellyn]

I think they're kinda missing the point.

 

Th descriptors don't adequately assess fitness for work.

 

The Atos assessment doe not adequately assess the descriptors.

[estellyn]

Also the medical adviser is talking crap - suggesting that the Tribunals are making a decision based on a condition worsening. Having lots of Tribunal experience, saying your condition has worsened, makes you more likely to fail at Tribunal.

[frank_begbie]

Am listening to this now it is very interesting..... You can play it from the start

 

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=11821

 

That player is pathetic. keeps stopping at 20 odd minutes.

[Nystagmite]

Also the medical adviser is talking crap - suggesting that the Tribunals are making a decision based on a condition worsening. Having lots of Tribunal experience, saying your condition has worsened, makes you more likely to fail at Tribunal.

 

I was always lead to believe that a tribunal for any disability benefit was based on how you were at the time of the medical / application.

[estellyn]

I was always lead to believe that a tribunal for any disability benefit was based on how you were at the time of the medical / application.

 

Yes, but what happens is there ends up being confusion between now and then. The Tribunal assume you were better 'then' and if there isn't clearcut evidence will fail you, and tell you to reapply on grounds of worsening condition. If your condition is not visibly worse than at the time of the WCA then it's best not to muddy the waters, and just say your condition is about the same as then (of course only giving answers to how you were at the time of the WCA).

[estellyn]

That player is pathetic. keeps stopping at 20 odd minutes.

 

I've given up, I had to go to the loo, tried to pause/stop it, and then it returned to the beginning and I can't make it fast forward.

[honeybee13]

Estellyn, I had the same problem. I don't know if the archive version will have more controls, I haven't looked yet.

[Dilizjo]

I didn't manage to watch it all before so have tried to watch it both on Silverlight and windows media player and both won't go further than 24 mins:( So I have left feedback describing the fault I hope they put it right as I would really like to see the end.

 

It was disappointing that the DWP had asked that ATOS not be called to the meeting though, at least the Chair said that if they needed them they would have to appear.

[estellyn]

I didn't manage to watch it all before so have tried to watch it both on Silverlight and windows media player and both won't go further than 24 mins:( So I have left feedback describing the fault I hope they put it right as I would really like to see the end.

 

It was disappointing that the DWP had asked that ATOS not be called to the meeting though, at least the Chair said that if they needed them they would have to appear.

 

yes, there is little point in investigating something if you don't ask the right questions and you can't ask them of everyone you need to.

[RaeUK]

Is it available anywhere on iplayer?

[Dilizjo]

Just got an email back from the Parliament site:

Hi Dianne,

Thank you for contacting us regarding www.parliamentlive.tv.

We are aware of an intermittent issue which appears to be affecting the playback of archive streams for some users.

Our developers are currently looking into this issue and hope to have it resolved as soon as possible.

Regards

David Loader

[**Margaret**]

:Behind Closed Doors?

 

Hmm ......

 

Last time a Parliamentary video concerning Atos went down they were editing out some remarks by an Atos doctor.

 

A Margaret.

Edited November 19, 2012 by **Margaret**

[worried33]

one thing I will say.

 

Whilst medical evidence seems very undervalued on ESA the opposite seems the case on DLA where its overvalued, to the point people who have no diagnosis or who are struggling to obtain evidence have a very tough jobs getting rewards, so the principles of assessments I am not against as other people, as the ESA/IB system has recognised my conditions at least to a degree whilst the DLA system which many consider better has failed me every time.

 

Also both those executives of the 2 charities seem to still dont get it. They both explained issues that are occuring but they said they both agree on the new principle of looking at what someone can do instead of what they cant do, without realising it. Because the whole idea of ATOS saying they can push a button so you can work is based on that principle of looking what someone can do.

Edited November 19, 2012 by worried33

[Nystagmite]

To some extent, I can understand why they say they should look at what people can do. At the same time, they do need to look at what they can't do.

[nolegion]

Many thanks for the link and the tech.update, Dilizjo. It seems that I am in the same boat as at least some others. Can't get past 24 mins and I hope they fix it. Very interesting.

 

Did I catch one of the witnesses referring to the 3rd Harrington report as being due out tomorrow?

Edited November 19, 2012 by nolegion

[worried33]

I think they're kinda missing the point.

 

Th descriptors don't adequately assess fitness for work.

 

The Atos assessment doe not adequately assess the descriptors.

 

yes watching the 20 mins that does work, clearly shows the whole thing made much complex than it is and its no wonder it isnt getting fixed.

 

Your few lines said it all in very simple terms that the descriptors been used are wrong and that the atos asseesment is not accuratly assessing the descriptors.

 

Also was scary that everyone seemed in agreement that apparently been 'parked' on benefits is a bad thing for your health, yet no comment that forcing someone to do work activity they cant do is not bad for your health. I felt that the charity rep's there were saying lies to come across as cooperative as its now out of fashion to say people should have life long or long term social security support.

[worried33]

To some extent, I can understand why they say they should look at what people can do. At the same time, they do need to look at what they can't do.

 

can you explain more what you mean?

 

eg. if someone can use a computer it must mean they can work full time, that has very little logic.

 

its barriers that stop people been able to work not anything else.

 

I stil maintain the IB system was better and more accurate but people didnt like it because it implied we had a high amount of people sick and as such showed the country as a failure. Yet if ESA is so good and more accurate why is so many people found fit for work by the assessments not actually working. Clearly the idea "what you can do" is not right at all.

 

At least the guy suggested a system where they look at what someone can do sustained instead of been able to do it for 5 minutes. But even that is too harsh, and if someone cannot do a specific thing eg. if they have a condition that stops them been able to turn up for work regurly and regurly, then the question of what they can do should be considered'irellevant'.

[worried33]

Many thanks for the link and the tech.update, Dilizjo. It seems that I am in the same boat as at least some others. Can't get past 24 mins and I hope they fix it. Very interesting.

 

Did I catch one of the witnesses referring to the 3rd Harrington report as being due out tomorrow?

 

yes and also that only 30% of his reccomendations been carried out, so basically was a question why are the DWP dragging their feet, eg. they may be deliberatly waiting until IB reassessments are done knowing the reccomendations would find less fit for work.