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    • Thanks Andy!!!    Will get it completed and posted out👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
    • Hi,   Having had a PM exchange with Shamrocker (thank you) I've been advised to upload the General Order/Judgement that was sent to me at the end of September.  Can someone (possibly Andy) clarify that I need to complete a WS for my "side of the bargain".   Obviously, I have just received and uploaded the claimant's WS so I suspect I do, but the actual order was "vague".    Many thanks B   General Order & Direction Oct19.pdf
    • Hmm, so.. basically have to rely on the default notice not containing all that it should and the claimant misleading the court for the reason for the application.. and judge lottery : /
    • Which would require a hearing....so the fee would be £255.00
    • When providing a copy of an executed agreement in response to a request under section 78(1) of the Act:   a.     must a creditor provide a photocopy (or other form of complete copy) of the original agreement that was signed by the debtor or at least provide a copy which is derived directly from the original agreement or complete copy thereof? or b.     can a creditor provide a document which is a reconstitution of the original agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself?   It was held that a creditor can satisfy its duty under section 78 by providing a reconstituted version of the executed agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself.   The judge accepted that as a matter of law, section 78 does not itself require any particular explanation as to how the copy was made. However, as a matter of good practice and so as not to mislead the debtor, it is desirable that the creditor should explain that it is providing a reconstituted as opposed to a physical copy of the executed agreement. This will also explain why the copy might otherwise look a little odd. The creditor can also explain in the letter that this procedure is satisfactory under the Act. The judge also provided that the following information needs to be included in the reconstituted copy agreement (assuming of course that it was present in the original):   1.     Heading: Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 2.     Name and address of the debtor 3.     Name and address of the creditor 4.     Cancellation clause applicable to the executed agreement.   All of the above may be provided on a sheet which is separate from the full statement of terms and conditions which also forms part of the reconstituted agreement. The creditor may, however, decide to reconstitute the agreement in a different way so that, for example, the information above is populated electronically onto the same sheet as that which sets out the terms and conditions, or some of them. The judge stated that he did not intend to prescribe the precise form of the reconstituted agreement. The key point is what information it should contain, subject to the point that its format should not be such as to mislead the debtor as to what he agreed to.   The judge also considered whether a statement like the one appearing in the reconstructed application form in Carey referring to the agreement to the terms and conditions "attached" needs to be included in the reconstituted copy. Alternatively if the application form had said "I agree to the terms overleaf", should that statement be included. The judge held that this aspect of the form is not necessary for the purpose of the section 78 copy, although there is nothing to stop a bank from putting it in or indeed from furnishing a copy of the type of application form or signature page that the debtor would have signed, as some banks have done. The statement referring to terms and conditions is not itself prescribed information and the supply of the terms and conditions which were applicable at the time will tell the debtor what he needs to know in terms of the content of what he signed up to, including the presence (or otherwise) of the prescribed terms.   In practical terms what this is likely to mean is that if the creditor chooses to use as the section 78 copy the section 63 copy, which would have been provided to that particular debtor at the time following execution of the agreement, this will be sufficient provided that the information referred to above is supplied. This exercise is not a mere formality. The creditor will need to check carefully that the details of the debtor at the time are correct and that those are the particular terms (including prescribed terms) that he/she agreed to. This is to ensure that it is an honest and accurate copy.   Must a creditor provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (Regulations) as to form, as at the date the agreement was made in order to comply with section 78?   A creditor need not, in complying with section 78, provide a document which would comply (if signed) with the requirements of the Regulations as to form, as at the date the agreement was made.   Must the copy provided under section 78 include the debtor's name and address as at the date when the agreement was made, and if so in what form? The section 78 copy must contain the name and address of the debtor as it was at the time of the execution of the agreement. But the creditor can provide the name and address from whatever source it has of those details. It does not have to take them from the executed agreement itself.     If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, is a copy of the executed agreement as varied, a sufficient copy for the purposes of section 78(1), or must the creditor provide a copy of the original agreement as well?   If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms.     As your agreement is post April 2007  Section 61(1)(a) and 127(3)   Consumer Credit Act 1974 would not apply.   Andy
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mr mephistopheles

recorded delivery 'is no guarantee of anything'

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I took a letter to the post office recently, and to make sure it got to its destination, I asked to send it by recorded delivery.

 

To my surprise, the person behind the counter said, "You do realise, don't you, that recorded delivery isn't a guarantee of anything?" I told him that, surely, it would guarantee that it would be delivered, and he said it wouldn't: for a guarantee of delivery, I would have to use another type of post that would cost me over five pounds.

 

I asked him just how a letter with the complete address on the envelope, including the postcode, and with the sender's address on the back, could possibly go astray, and he just shrugged and said, "This is just something we have to tell customers".

 

So how can paying a fiver ensure a letter will get to its destination when recorded delivery can't? For the more expensive service, do they use a special breed of non-careless postman?

 

Frankly, I felt I was being threatened - I think I was meant to hear this statement as, "Better pay us the extra, old son - you never know when things might 'go astray' - know what I mean?"

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The Counter clerk was 100% correct.

 

In addition, I think his product knowledge in pointing this out to you shows what a good service RM provide.

 

Recorded Delivery items are exactly what it says, a signature on delivery (sometimes). This mail travels with the other 60 million items of mail that RM process daily. Should you not receive confirmation, you can reclaim the RD fee. The maximum amount you could claim should this item was lost, would be far less that the amount you could claim on a lost Special delivery item.

 

Special delivery is signed for at each step of the journey. The Postman signs for it at the PO, he will receive a signature when he drops it at the Delivery Office (RLS) and so on.

 

Jogs

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Indeed it is no proof of delivery, however you can log onto the website and check to see if it has been delievered. If after 14 days it has not (or appears to have not been) you can raise a query and in my experience they have always got back to me with a POD. Seems the system fails sometimes, especially to Southend on sea

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No method of delivery can 100% garauntee delivery, but getting a signature and the limit of compensation varies depending on which method you use.

 

Andy

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PS The royal mail only paid me £49.95p for the item that was valued at £60 and what they paid me was also the cost of what I paid for the postage being refunded. A total and utter joke.

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My father always sends my son's (4 off them) their Birthday cards by RM with a banknote in the middle. But over the last couple years, sadly either the cards never came or sometimes they arrived with a split down the side & the money gone!! A few have arrived untouched as well, thankfully.

 

So I asked him to send them in future by Recorded delivery in a plain brown envelope. (As you can usually tell by the coloured envelopes its a card of some sort)

 

This has worked out for us so far & all have arrived this year until now. It's my eldest son's Birthday today & the cards my Father sent on Monday still haven't arrived as yet, hopefully it's here tomorrow otherwise I will get the tracking number from him.

 

It's worth paying a little bit extra for Recorded delivery for piece off mind. This service is still quite cheap (95p + 60p 1st class stamp) compared to Special delivery (£5.90) as no way could I ask my Father whose a pensioner to pay this sum each time!

 

It's sad to have to resort to this just so my Son's get their cards. I remember on my Birthdays as a young girl, excitedly watching out for the brightly coloured envelopes the Postman would bring. Times sure have changed!


I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every single minute of it!!

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Don't send anything valuable over Royal Mail.


"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for Poundland"

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I believe that Recorded Delivery only covers you for a value of up to £42.00 (but not cash)

 

 

RM used to advertise their RD service to send Legal documents or other items of importance that required a signature !


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There is no tracking from the post office to the sorting office by recorded delivery. It it treated as the same as ordinary post with the only exception that a signature will be requested if and when delivered. On the odd occasion my recorded delivery even failed to turn up and all I got was a book of stamps..

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If it's just a letter and nothing valuable inside it's just as good to send it first class and get a certificate of posting.

 

TS once told me, after i had a dispute with courts, that a COP was good enough for a Judge that the letter was sent.

 

1st class and 2nd class mail with a COP is still 'insured' up to a certain amount.

 

Appreciate if anyone knows if this is still true, it was a few years ago.

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A COP is as good as Recorded Delivery from what I've garnered. Precedent has established it as a formalised proof of posting; it's 50% of the Recorded Delivery service (the only paid-for aspect of RD being the ePOD).

 

Where I work, whenever we post items out First Class to customers over a certain value we always ask for a COP which we can retain to prove that the item left our possession. This also means when the odd customer files a bogus nondelivery claim, we can provide proof of delivery which shifts liability for redelivering another item until a reasonable amount of time (14 days) has been allowed for delivery. Some people still don't realise First Class is a 'best effort' service...!

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