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LuciferUK

Employment tribunal question & schedule of loss

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Ah it has come to the time that i along with 3 other colleagues have had to take our company to an employment tribunal. Let me give you some background details first.

 

I work For a company that provides security for holiday camps, march through november. i started last march finished november then restarted in march, and have jsut finished again now. I will resume my position next march. On avg i work 45 hrs a week. I didnt have to apply for my job i got it because of who i am.

I have never received the following which is why im taking them to tribunal:

 

  1. No particulars of employment (despite a written request)
  2. Infrequent payslips - year 1 i received none at all, yea 2 ive received 4/5 altogether
  3. Not received a p60 - nor a p45 (when questioned the director stated he did not know our employment status, however we must be seasonal as we receive a p45)
  4. No holiday pay for year 1 or year 2 ( when questioned the director said it was 'rolled up' which i know to be unlawful as its not described on the few payslips we have - and as no particular of employment its not on there, and certainly wasnt verbally agreed)
  5. We work in a loud environment, and i have developed tinitus, they have not provided any hearing protection
  6. It clearly states on their website they provide training, and uniform including safety equipment - yet none has been provided and ive had to purchase everything myself
  7. No sick pay, not even SSP - nor info on how to claim and ive had to take off several days throughout my employment without pay.
  8. Often i work late in the night especially when writing reports of the nights incidents- we get no health check info at all.
  9. I was promoted this year, ive had to interview, hire and fire people with zero training. Instead to ensure i comply with the law i have had to study employment law without pay. NO Training at all with this job, despite it saying on their website its provided!! please note i have also had to educate and train my manager who is also a claimant.
  10. We have enver filled out a Working time directive opt out form - i worked for 7 weeks solid without a day off as there was no-one to cover shifts.
  11. I got my promotion appx apr 16th, was told my pay increase would happen in 4-6weeks. it took more like 11 weeks, and only because i persistently text messaged the director. It was back dated to august 1st.

I must point out at this stage that we asked the director and area manager for extra men none were provided; we asked for meetings they never happened. We have only seen

 

  1. Now, I filled out the ET1 and the case has been accepted, and im waiting on their response. I have spoken to ACAS and they have said i should write an Schedule of loss. I know theres alot of claims here so how do i go about it. I think on average i work appx 40-45hrs/week.
     
    How does my case stand up - i cant find anything similar through online searchs?
     
    Also how do i begin to write up a schedule of loss for these claims? what kind of money should i be requesting?
     
    any help would be greatly appreciated.

NB/EDIT = I am also thinking about legal representation who would be the best to speak to regarding this problem - ACAS says i can still appoint a rep - there are 3 other people attached to my claim - would my rep, cover them too?

Edited by LuciferUK

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Hello

 

Pardon my ignorance, but I cant actually see what you're claiming!

 

I can see a failure to provide particulars of employment claim (which awards either 2 or 4 weeks pay) but that's only on the back of another successful claim.

 

The rest seems to be poor treatment, rather than anything a tribunal can deal with!

 

Unless you aren't seeking compensation? In which case, you can ask the tribunal to make a declaration of rights - but you don't need a schedule of loss for that.

 

Re rolled up holiday pay - generally unlawful, but can be permitted for seasonal workers. SSP only kicks in on the fourth consecutive day of absence, which could explain that?

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Holiday pay is the main complaint, followed up by no payslips/contract (particulars of employment)/p45&p60/failure to give me my promotion pay within the agreed time frame/ im claiming against them not providing hearing protection. I have requested all in writing, signed sealed and delivered - but no response. Additionally, ive not received any sick!!

All of the above are legal entitlements are they not?

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The tribunal doesn't have jurisdiction to deal with the failure to provide PPE. It only has the power to make a declaration that you are entitled to payslips - it can't award compensation.

 

If you win your holiday pay claim, you could get compensation for the lack of contract too - but again, the tribunal doesn't have jurisdiction to make an award for that claim alone; it has to be tagged onto another successful claim. The promotion issue and P60 aren't items the tribunal can deal with at all.

 

Re sick pay - you're only entitled to full pay if there's a contract in place. If not, SSP can be claimed from day 4 onwards.

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Ahhh rolled up pay - my research tells me, its only accepted for those unable to take holiday pay ie seafarers, servicemen etc, or through mutual consent - in which in must clearly be stipulated in contract and on payslip. If you read the other points - this has never been agreed - year 1 i received no payslips, year 2 intermittent - and all of which only show a basic rate of pay - not a portion attributed to rolled up holiday pay. Additionally, my previous manager said were not entitled to it, hence when i took over as one of the new management team ans was quizzed by people i had employed about holiday pay i did my research and found their actions to be unlawful!

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spetember i sprained my ankle and was off for 5 days without pay - no ssp offered no paid?

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True - the arrangement to pay rolled up holiday pay must be "transparent" to be lawful. Without documentary evidence of the agreement to that arrangement, you are likely to win that one.

 

If you worked a 7 day week and had 5 days off, you're owed around £12 for one day of SSP.

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I concur, additionally even with the promotion no particulars were given to the new role and what my expectations were - Would that then constitue a potential 8 weeks compensation for not providing such details?. Furthermore, i was not getting my entitlements regarding the WTR ie. 11hrs rest between shifts- uninterrupted. What are your thoughts on that?

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No, sadly it's capped to 4 weeks.

 

Re a breach of the WTR 1998 - you can't easily claim compensation. All you can hope for is a declaration of rights and a tribunal recommendation to put right the unlawful practice. The ET can only order compensation which is just and equitable, having regard to a claimants actual financial loss. Can you prove a loss by not being allowed compensatory rest?

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Other than stress its something i would certainly have to think hard about proving.

My main aim of this tribunal is to get clarity on the employment situation, a contract which stipulates what my entitlements are, my holiday pay (both back pay and for the future) - and although it will be separate but also linked in any presented contracted i want a stipulated call out charge and agreed hourly fee - i know this point will have to be dealt with differently however.

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You seem to have accepted all these things cat the time and have acquired a law textbook since leaving. Which issues did you draw to the employer's attention when, to give them a chance to rectify?


Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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It wasnt that i accepted them, i was told i was not entitled to holiday pay, and since taking charge i have since discovered i am and i was misled/lied to by previous management.

I have written to HQ asking for written explanations as to the above issues, but they did not respond - indeed since seeing the area manager near the start of the season i have had no contact with them other than me chasing my promotional pay which was not only not paid in within the agreed time, but was i believe deliberately witheld.

I have been official and tried to go through the chain, but my manager is in the same boat and he says he has tried to contact them but has had no response - or they have promised to come and have ameeting and never turned up. Hence i wrote the letter, and from their raised the ET1 - which has been accepted.

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Have you also raised a formal grievance? You can do this as well as ET and it may give a chance of a less stressful resolution. Or more evidence. Either helps.


Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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We have no grievance procedure - by writing the request i was advised it would suffice - by them not responding i was also advised their ignorance would be their undoing ergo ET1

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anyone got any info on statement of loss - i thinkit should include a breakdown of the holiday pay entitlement, i also read i can claim £300 for loss of statue rights (ie particulars of employment) - does anyone know if that is per claim eg £300 for contract, £300 for pay statements, £300 for p45, £300 for p60 etc etc?? what else should i be including?

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oh before i forget - would i include compensation @ %25 in my calculations - I understand this is likely to be awarded as my company have failed to adhere to the new ACAS Grievance and Disciplinary procedures by blatantly ignoring any contact we have with them i.e saying they will come to visit for a meeting then never turning up, and never contacting to say why ignoring the request letter, and it looks like they are going to ignore the ET3 theyve been sent too.

There is no grievance procedure in place, no contract nothing! Between me and my manager we run their business for them and they deny us everything it seems!

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As far as I'm aware, loss of statutory rights is only a heads of damages for dismissal. So no, you can't claim that.

 

As I've already told you, you can't claim compensation for pay slips, P45 or P60. All you can claim is holiday pay and for the written statement of particulars (maximum 4 weeks pay). So break down the holiday pay and add 4 weeks for statement of particulars.

 

Did you raise a formal grievance? If so, apply the 25% uplift to the holiday pay only - it doesn't apply to written particulars.

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