TBI Claimform - Old HFC Loan

[gust]

cheers DX

 

POC says £5811.58 + 8% per annum (£99.06) so that adds to £5910.64... BUT the N1 says £5910.64 PLUS INTEREST. so even this appears to be goofed up?

 

losing the will to live now lol

[AndyOrch]

So they have added the sec 69 interest into their claim then requested it again to be decided by the court.Section 69 Interest should never be included in the claim figure..requested and calculated yes but not included...its at the courts discretion.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

like the whole lot of it

 

they've not done their homework

expecting a defaut judgement where nothing is checked but just rubber stamped

 

dx

[gust]

Right DX - i think im ready with both spreadsheets

 

FosCISheet for penalty charges? and statint for PPI...

 

you say i have to put the ppi in the counterclaim but mention it in defense?

 

what about the penalty charges.? i aint sure what i am saying in my defense about either really!!

 

 

im going to bed now chaps - hopefully I have all the figures correct with your help.

 

next is file defense! phew!!

 

PS how long does it usually take from filing defense to court date?

will they automatically push it to my local court? or will it be northampton?

[dx100uk]

i'll let andy cover that

 

dx

[AndyOrch]

Right DX - i think im ready with both spreadsheets

 

FosCISheet for penalty charges? and statint for PPI...

 

you say i have to put the ppi in the counterclaim but mention it in defense?

 

what about the penalty charges.? i aint sure what i am saying in my defense about either really!!

 

 

im going to bed now chaps - hopefully I have all the figures correct with your help.

 

next is file defense! phew!!

 

PS how long does it usually take from filing defense to court date? Depends how good the defence and CC are and if the claimant wishes to challenge it before a final trial date is set

will they automatically push it to my local court? or will it be northampton?

All claims are transferred to your local county court as a litigant if they wish to proceed.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[gust]

thanks andy

 

so now i have to work on this defense - there is so much wrong i dont know where to start!

[AndyOrch]

Gather all your points / contentions of defence as bullet points into a list and then we will draft it into a suitable defence/counter claim.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[gust]

to tidy up here is the POC

 

 

N1 form has incorrect address for me on it. it says prefered court is Reading county court on the N1 too.

 

POC is typed out and stapled to N1 - but says in the northampton (CCMCC) County Court. why are there 2 courts here? anyways

 

POC -

 

1 By assignment dated the 22nd november 2007 made between HFC bank and the claimant, the said HFC bank sold and assigned all their rights, title and interest in and to each loan facility, hire purchase, leasing or any other agreement. The said agreement included the sale of a HFC bank personal loan agreement, regulated by the CCA1974 made between HFC and the defendant under agreement number XXXXXXX, a true copy of the said HFC loan agreement is attached to these particulars. Formal NOA of the said agreement was given by the claimant's by way of notice in writing 15th SEPT 2008.

 

2 the said agreement was for a loan made by the said hfc bank to the defendant dated 620th may 2005 (yes it reads this...) The defendant was to pay the balance outstanding by monthly instalments. The defendant commenced repayments but failed to maintain the payments, the last payment made was the sum of £70 on the 5th jan 2009. On the 15th SEPT 2012 the claimant served on the defendant a default notice requiring the defendant to pay the total amount that was then outstanding which amounted to the full outstanding balance of £5811.58 on or before 3rd OCT 2008.

 

3 since the default notice dated 15th SEPT 2012 the defendant has failed to comply with terms of the default notice and has failed to pay the total amount due as required.

 

4 the balance outstanding under the said agreement is £5811.58

 

and the claimant claims:-

 

(a) the said sum of £5811.58

 

(b) contractual interest on the amount of £5811.58, limited to 8% per annum from 4th october to the date hereof being 20th DEC 2012 amounting to £99.06 and thereafter at the said rate of 8% per annum until payment, currently equating to £1.27 per day.

 

© pursuant to the said agreement payment of all costs on an indemnity basis incurred by the claimants in enforcing the agreement subject to proceedings.

 

 

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

 

the claimant believes that the facts stated in these particulars of claim are true. I am duly authorised by the claimant to sign this statement.

 

arsecot lawyers

 

 

and my defense which needs sorting out badly!

 

Defence

 

1 - TBI Finance Limited allege on 22nd November 2007 that I owe them £6011.58 and in total panic I wrongly accepted to pay them before checking the validity of their claim. From later checking I realised I owe HFC Bank no such figure. I will add I also had Westcott Credit services Limited hounding me for the same alleged debt but for different figures. C.A.B. Says that a creditor not telling you if the debt has been passed on to a*debt collectionagency counts as harassment. I was given no written notice from HFC that either Westcott Credit Services Limited or TBI Financial Limited had any assignment or authority to contact myself and also no notice of default either. I have attached*SAR*details from HFC to prove this and also a copy of my Experian credit file dated 7 Feb 2009 when I first discovered any default. It was under the name of TBI Finance Limited, again for an incorrect amount.

My finances all went bad when I had an operation in hospital and was unable to work for 6 weeks. In this period I was bedridden and to add to the problem my employer had underpaid me only giving me £151.37 for a whole month, of which I was not aware of during the time causing ALL my accounts to get in serious arrears. (see attached bank statements.) To make this worse also I wanted to claim P.P.I. It took about 2 months to process and they only partially cleared the arrears. (please see S.A.R. Notes attached) of which did not clear the arrears and left me still in difficulty. I also found out that on inception of agreement with HFC, the PPI was mi-sold to me as the salesman stressed to me I would fail the credit check due to “low credit score” and taking the PPI would greatly improve my chance if obtaining the loan. Being desperate for the loan money I stupidly accepted.

 

2 – Knowing nothing about consumer law I found advise and was advised to send TBI a formal request under S77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I sent this by recorded mail to TBI on 21 Jan 2009. I would use the info from any TRUE COPY OF ANY ORIGINAL AGREEMENT for PPI figures to reclaim and also to check the validity of TBI's claim considering I had no prior notice from HFC Bank.

 

3 – TBI Acknowledge my request with a letter to me dated 23 Jan 2009.

 

4 – TBI go quiet as they are in default of my request and pass the 14+30 days to comply. At the time I did not know I had to write and put any alleged account into “dispute”. I wrongly thought it would be automatic since TBI would clearly know that not having any agreement is a very clear sign of Dispute.

 

5 – My next contact from TBI was a letter dated 20 OCT 2009 adding charges to alleged account and the next letter a YEAR later dated 25 OCT 2010 adding another charge.

 

6 – I finally receive a reply to my request I sent in Jan 2009 – this was dated 6th Dec 2010 so nearly TWO YEARS LATER. I notice they had some kind of photocopy of a hand written application form or agreement of which has failed my legal request. Firstly because it is not a true copy as I clearly remember that any agreement I would have signed was NOT handwritten and also that there is no date,*signature*or counter signature. It was apparent that because the alleged agreement they sent me was supposed to be from 20 may 2005, then S127(3) of the CCA1974 act applies and their lack of compliance of S127(3) would make any further enforcement unlawful. Later I am quoted by TBI's “in house solicitors” that a reconstituted unsigned agreement is acceptable as per Carey V*HSBC*in 2009. This would appear irrelevant considering the alleged agreement would have been signed before 7th April 2007 of which the newer laws of the CCA2006 came into force. As far as I am concerned only a TRUE copy of a SIGNED, EXCECUTED AGREEMENT would be compliant in this case so therefore I have not offered payment or acknowledged any debt to TBI since January 2009. I back this with McGinn V Grangewood Securities 2002 where the judge had this to say; It follows that in a case where there is no signed document signed by the debtor which contains all the prescribed terms of the agreement the court has no power to make an enforcement order.

 

7 – TBI have been searching my credit file with Experian and also Callcredit/Noddle without my permission and I want all entries removed. They also issued me THREE default notices dated 29th sept 2008, 17th Dec 2010 and finally 15th sept 2011. I would say these are completely meaningless and just threats to pressure me into paying something that I am not legally obliged to. (Experain Credit files attached for you to see this)

 

8 – Their failure to compliance meant;

They cannot demand further payment, or am I obliged to offer any payment to them. (they did demand further payment of which they should not)

Add further charges (They did this also)

Pass alleged account to third party. (The sent it to another debt collection agency namely,*debt managementLimited without ANY notice to myself to further demand payment) I was also offered a DISCOUNTED RATE to lure me into payment by them. (see letters from DML) I didn’t really know how to deal with this so I sent DML another request under CCA1974 to reinforce that TBI had already failed compliance and gave them another chance to comply under the ORIGINAL request dated 21 Jan 2009. They then pass it back to TBI and then I get David Jones solicitors aggressively stating they will press legal action and demanding payment. I then sent them 2 letters placing this “in dispute” of which they ignored. (see letters for and from David Jones Solicitors)

Register information with any credit reference agency. (They did and I want all reference to TBI removed from my Experian file and also Callcredit/Noddle file.

Issue default notices (They did this - 29th sept 2008, 17th Dec 2010, 15th Sept 2011, of which NONE appear on any credit file.

 

 

other notes - PPI spreadsheet ready for counterclaim for HFC - penalty spready ready also (thanks DX)

 

no default notice off OC

recon sent which isnt compliant

not sure on DPA breaches? (if any) sent to other DCA without prior notice

charges added mysteriously

wrong amounts all over the place

stat int errors/ doubling up

wrong address on N1

only 1 T&C sheet copy - cant tell when from

searching credit file and leaving address links

harrassment?!

 

headwork really as i dont have much of a clue now

 

oh and

 

© pursuant to the said agreement payment of all costs on an indemnity basis incurred by the claimants in enforcing the agreement subject to proceedings.

 

of which you noted - i looked over T&C's - no meantion....

 

and after failing CCA request - still trying to collect - then passed to another DCA who offered discounted rate.

 

then david jones solicitor ignoring dispute ( i finally sent "in dispute" letters to them) and was ignored

 

ok andy here is shorted pointers

 

* No default notice from OC

* No warning of Wescott pursuing.

* No warning of TBI pursuing.

* TBI pursuing no such figure owed to HFC

*TBI updating default on 2 CRA files. end figure £5806 - and P.O.C. is for MORE!

* TBI Fail CCA 1974 request (agreement from 2005)

* TBI take 2 years to produce a recon so in default of my request for nearly 2 years. one ONE photocopy of some T&C's (hard to read)

* Recon is hand written including prescribed terms and address details. No date or signatures present.

* A statement of account recieived from inception till 2010 - should this be SIGNED by OC?? (from reading OFT guidelines)

* I stopped paying them from CCA request till present - not acknowledged any debt to them since jan 09

* TBI charge default fee of £50 just over 2 months BEFORE they first contact me with N.O.A.

* TBI still send my details to another DCA even though they are in default of my legal request.

* DML threaten litigation

* DML offer discounted rate

* I send DML CCA 1974 request - and pass back to TBI

* David jones solicitors then threaten me.

* I send David jones "yoyo" letter and place in Dispute (which i overlooked along time ago) - they ignored "dispute"

*David jones solicitors declare an unsigned recon is enforcable quoting Carey v hsbc and send to Ascot Lawyers

* ascot lawyers serve me to WRONG adress.

*ascot then serve me to correct address but wrong address on N1 form

* I cpr31.14 ascot to get proof of payment to TBI - and discover default fee only recently.

* I also ask for original default notice from OC. They cannot produce.

* I have FULL S.A.R. from HFC - showing ALL memo's - no default notice or notification that either Westcott or TBi are to be contacting me.

* Wrong amount on P.O.C. with stat interest added, then THIS figure entered on N1 claiming that amount with FURTHER stat interest on it.

* Ascot trying to claim all costs on an indemnity basis incurred by the claimants in enforcing the agreement subject to proceedings. - NOT on T&C's

* DX helped me fill in penalty charge spreadsheet - need to know where to put this? in defense or counterclaim?

* DX helped me fill in PPi reclaim spreadsheet - need to know where to put this? in defense or counterclaim?

 

 

*counterclaim

 

* possible DPA breach

* Harrassment

* Alarm Distress (big cause to my mental conditions and medication for anxiety/depression.

* Amounts I should claim for what? (if possible)

 

 

think this is all pointers!!

 

thanks Andy

 

what I can take to court.

 

CRA file before default dropped off showing TBI on there

CRA file after default has vanished and ascot putting in P.O.C. a default notice was sent to me - showing no such default on my CRA file.

2 letters from wescott

ALL letters back and forth to TBI (all mine with recorded slips)

ALL letters back and forth to DML (as above)

ALL letters back and forth to Ascot Lawyers (as above)

FULL S.A.R. From HFC

 

think thats enough??

 

hmmm

 

reading OFT guideline it says this about statement of acc

 

Fixed-sum agreements

3.7 The statement must contain

• the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor

• the total sum which has become payable under the agreement by the

debtor, but which remains unpaid, and the various amounts

comprised in that total sum, with the date when each became due

• the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by

the debtor, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum,

with the date, or mode of determining the date, when each becomes

due. If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable it to

ascertain these amounts and dates, it is sufficient if the statement

gives the basis on which, under the agreement, they would fall to be

ascertained. For example, this will cover variable charges based on

an index.

 

i will upload what i have as im not sure if compliant

 

does it have to have the total sum paid by creditor added up and presented as a figure? or is something that looks like a normal bank statement compliant?

 

any legal peeps about this evening? I have only days to go to file my defense and could use some help please.

 

I have 3 days left to file my defense. Panicking now.

 

What is the best way for me to word their non compliance to my cca request?

 

Also i have checked bank statements and i indeed paid money to wescott before tbi got their hands on this and the payments to them havent come off the balance. Now i dont have time to find out this properly.

 

I filed acknowledgement with the solicitor and monday is my 28 days up. Should i have also told the court this or is it the solicitors duty to tell them i acknowledged?

 

 

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

Hi Gust

 

Here is an example of how a defence /counter claim should be drafted.....make a start on yours and try to follow the same format.

 

Particulars of Claim:-

 

1.The Claimant claims the whole of the outstanding balance due and payable under an agreement referenced XXXXX and opened effective from 07/04/2007. The agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, was signed by the Defendant and from which credit was extended to the Defendant.

 

2.The Defendant failed to make payment as required and by 29/02/2012 a default was recorded. As at 27/04/2012 the Defendant owed MBNA Europe Bank Limited the sum of 8,036.95. By an agreement in writing the benefit of the debt has been legally assigned to the Claimant effective 27/04/2012 and made regular upon the Claimant serving a Notice of Assignment upon the Defendant shortly thereafter.

 

3.And the Claimant claims:- 1. 8,166.95 2. interest pursuant to Section 69 county court Act (1984) at a rate of 8% per Annum from 27/04/2012 to 04/01/2013 of 423.30 And thereafter at a daily rate of 1.70 to date of judgment or sooner payment.

 

Defence and Part 20 Counter Claim

 

 

1. Paragraph 1 is admitted with regards to the Defendant entering in to an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') with the MBNA Europe Bank Limited the Defendant did not enter into any Agreement with the Claimant.

2. Paragraph 2 is admitted but it is denied that MBNA ever served a Default Notice pursuant to the CCA1974 which precludes the claimant from any enforcement or relief.

3. Paragraph 3 is denied the Claimant has failed to serve any Notice of Sums Arrears since assignment pursuant to the CCA2006 amendments (sec 86C ) and precluded form adding any interest or seeking enforcement or relief and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show service of a valid Default Notice and proof of delivery

(b) show how the Claimant has legal right by way of the Credit Consumer Agreement and Terms and conditions applicable; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

5. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

6.Incorporated within the sum demanded by the Claimant are sums claimed for their administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions. It is denied (if it be alleged) that the Claimant has incurred any such fees and charges, alternatively that such fees and charges if incurred accurately represent sums lost by the Claimant by reason of late payment. The Defendant avers that the incorporation of such claims is penal and unenforceable at law.

 

7. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

 

 

Part 20 Claim

 

8. The defendant/Part 20 claimant claims sums paid to the claimant /Part 20 defendant in relation to penalty Charges Incorporated within the sum demanded by the Claimant are sums claimed for their administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions.

 

 

And the defendant/Part 20 claimant claims:-

 

 

i) £ XX XXX XXXX unfair charges (expand on reasoning) (insert compound interest) show separate

 

ii) Interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum or up until judgment.

 

There you are one Defence and Part 20 Counter Claim.Let others verify it before your submission and dont forget to print off your poof of input date time stamp after

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Defending any claim is like playing chess there is a process to follow.Vague Particulars of Claim entered..argument kept minimal ...less is more...less for you to find fault.So long as it complies with CPR 16 the court are happy.I call this testing the water to see what you will do.

Your initial response...you refute or agree anything not referred to is taken as acceptance and admittance by you the defendant.So your response will deal with what they claim and only what they claim...your response just as vague...now you are testing the water and see if they wish to proceed.

 

50% of claims are stayed if the defendants response is correct...do not forget 80% of claims are by way of assignment so its not the OP litigating...they know its pointless and not cost efficient to sue so they write it off and claim tax relief.

Not the debt buyers...but they can afford to submit an initial claim..they bought it for 10p in the pound so any litigation that is successful is good profit..and here on CAG we only see a snapshot so lets assume that 80% of claims are not defended...nice profit nice business.

 

Anyway I digress ......so to the 20% that do offer defence...this creates work and jeopardises their investment in that debt having to now pay further monies and even instruct council (in some cases) to process the claim.That 10p in the £1 now could become a break even trying to get judgment...with the obvious intention of a Charging Order to secure their investment.Not so profitable now.

 

So back to your draft...you have played your hand in one foul swoop and revealed all your argument/contentions that you could possibly offer...there is no surprises left along the way for the AQ or Witness Statement so they can now decide whether to proceed and take you on pay the AQ fee edge their bets with an application for Summary Judgment......game over you lose.

[DonkeyB]

I have 3 days left to file my defense. Panicking now.

 

What is the best way for me to word their non compliance to my cca request?

 

Also i have checked bank statements and i indeed paid money to wescott before tbi got their hands on this and the payments to them havent come off the balance. Now i dont have time to find out this properly.

 

I filed acknowledgement with the solicitor and monday is my 28 days up. Should i have also told the court this or is it the solicitors duty to tell them i acknowledged?

 

 

Thanks

 

Confused - can you confirm that you acknowledged to the court that you were defending all, and wanted the extra 14 days?

[gust]

Many thanks andy, from a previous thread you asked me to list all pointers, which i did. I will try to understand and digest what you mwan about the game over bit after work. The layout i thankyou for too.

 

Donkeyb - the acknowledgement of service said to send to the solicitor and i have yet to send the defend abd counterclaim sheet as i thought it would need my defense with it which i have been struggling with.

 

Also a new update today. TS contacted me again as he sent the recon to a CAB agreement specialist and now agrees it is unenforcable. He is writung thus in a letter to tbi and ascot today. Will they proceed or withdraw on the weight of this?

 

Ta

[AndyOrch]

" Donkeyb - the acknowledgement of service said to send to the solicitor

 

Please confirm you didnt !!!!!!

 

Andy

[gust]

Confirm i didnt do what? Ta

[AndyOrch]

Send your AoS to the Solicitor as you state above

[gust]

Send your AoS to the Solicitor as you state above

 

i did as thats what i thought i had to do to get 28 days instead of 14

[AndyOrch]

i did as thats what i thought i had to do to get 28 days instead of 14

 

Oh dear

 

Register with MCOL now Log onto MCOL and check the status, if you cant log on ring Northampton ASAP.Explain what you have done.

[gust]

cant access mcol on my phone so will have to try after work.

 

As you can tell i am clueless with all of this. How come that was the wrong thing to do? And what shoyld i be telling northamton if i need to ring? Sorey to be useless but all this is new to me and seemingly complicated

 

cheers

 

my days!

 

registered on MCOL now but cant find password in response pack. I have been looking for the white box saying "important information" as i read in another thread and cant find it anywhere.

 

I have been sent photocopies as one sheet says turn over for more info but the back is blank? is this normal?

 

head hurts!!

[AndyOrch]

" I have been sent photocopies as one sheet says turn over for more info but the back is blank? is this normal? "

 

Hi Gust

 

Has it got the Northampton seal stamped on your copy/ Is there a claim number?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[gust]

hi Andy

 

i have alot of one sided sheets- the N1 has a blank circle with seal written inside it. no stamp or seal on there.

 

It had a hand written claim number yes.

 

there is no sign of the password on response pack. I notice one form, the notice of issue is one sided but the info on the front says "for further info please turn over" so suggests its a photcopy as the back is blank.

 

I cant log into MCOL - so will need to call the court tomorrow

 

I am telling them what exactly?

 

many thanks

[AndyOrch]

You will have to speak to Northampton...explain that you have sent your AoS to the claimant in error...you was not aware of MCOL. Now you are you can not register because you have been served a photocopy of the N1 ..with no password.

Also why have you been served with photocopies?

 

While you are at it... just make sure that the claim number is legit and has been issued through them...they will advise.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

PS The password is in the "important information"

[gust]

great thanks Andy

 

I think just about EVERYTHING that could be and could go wrong has come up with this so far.

 

 

TS have contacted TBI and the solicitor now too

 

Northampton Bulk Centre (CCBC) 0845 408 5302 / 01604 619400

 

 

this one?

 

ta

[AndyOrch]

Should be on your photocopied half cocked summons Gust? Yes that's the one