Tired of the appauling service on liverpool trains

[timelse27]

To cut a long story short I had my pass confiscated because it was out of date, I was subsequently kicked off the train and had to walk all the way home it took me 4 hours!, I offered to pay and I was just 5p short, I just could not believe it, my pass was only out of date by a week and I genuinely didn't even notice it, is there any action I can take at all like putting a legitimate complaint in?

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I don't know if making you walk home is on or not, was that your only option?

 

Is anything else going to happen about your pass and did you get anything in writing? I'm just concerned about whether this might go further.

 

I hope the forum guys will be along later. They may ask you more questions.

 

My best, HB

[MikeCraig]

Tell me about it brother! The other day I was waiting for the bus, which was 15 minutes late in the pouring down rain! When I eventually got on, I was 5p short and the driver said, and I quote, "Well that's not my problem is it?". Service has went down the pot for the money you're paying!

[Charlie0808]

Hi timelse27, sounds like you have had some bad luck with public transport! They dont seem to treat their customers all that well, I noticed mikecraig has had problems too. Have either of you took your complaints further?

[MikeCraig]

Yeah I did mate, I rang them to no avail. They were clueless!

[Old-CodJA]

Sorry if this offends, but exactly who could you complain to given the scenarios that the OPs have explained?

 

"I didn't have a valid ticket and I didn't have enough money to pay the fare, but I wish to complain as your staff wouldn't let me travel on your service" .....isn't likely to get a lot of sympathy I guess.

 

Current UK legislation makes clear that; any intending traveller who does not have the means to pay the full fare due and does not have a valid ticket for their intended journey, does not have any right to board a bus or train.

 

I suggest that has always been the case (the legislations go back to the late 1800s) and the abuse of trust by so many others (the people who set out intending never to pay) has ensured that the companies involved will now take a hard line in protecting their revenue. That policy means that the little bit of sympathy that might have been shown by caring staff in the past has been outlawed to the extent that the staff themselves are likely to be disciplined by management if they 'let it ride'.

 

It really is a case of, if we cannot afford something we cannot simply take it and expect no consequences. Yes, I know that you are saying it's only 5p, but the law is based on principles, not pennies.

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with everyone that says public transport fares are generally too high, but that isn't the issue. It's an entirely different argument.

 

In the case of a rail traveller whose ticket is a week out of date and who cannot pay the fare due, perhaps being kicked off the train, but not reported could well be a good deal. The alternative might result in a criminal conviction and a hefty fine.

 

Before you all jump on me for being a penny-pinching so-and-so, I still have quite a number of letters from grateful travellers from my time many years ago, when as an inspector, I have actually loaned some people money from my own pocket to complete journeys rather than see them stranded, but I was also taken for a few quid a time or two. Society is much less trusting today, I can certainly see why no-one will put themselves in that position any more and why should they.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Old-CodJA

[MikeCraig]

I know what you're saying mate, but it's 5p. There's been plenty of times when I've been working and the customer has been 5p short and I've let them off. And I could complain about the bus being late. And the fact that the bus stop didn't have a shelter! Also, I could complain about his general attitude, I wouldn't dream od saying "well that's not my problem is it?".

[Old-CodJA]

Yes, I do have much more sympathy for your example of just 5p short on a bus fare.

 

I guess the driver could have balanced his shift 5p short and given the sensible explanation 'I let a traveller ride 5p short because it was pouring with rain' and I doubt that a serious discipline would follow, however there is no moral, or legal duty for him to do so and we can therefore only accept that it was his shout..

[Nystagmite]

But if you were allowed to travel and were 5p short, then surely he'd have to let everyone do that?

[Old-CodJA]

But if you were allowed to travel and were 5p short, then surely he'd have to let everyone do that?

 

Yes, I agree and that's why in reality, no matter how harsh it seems, we have to accept that the driver is correct to exercise his right to say 'no'.

[markl1987]

It may well only be 5p to you but when I worked for Wetherspoons a couple of years ago they had a rule in place where any variance of 25p either way for every £1000 taken in cash had to be investigated, If the possibly 100s of people either the bus driver or train crew were all 5p short then they would have to explain why they were missing money and why they could not account for it.

 

Times are harder now and 5p here and there makes a difference and although a small amount can add up and cost people their jobs. Totally agree with OC and having worked for a TOC and have responsibility for my own cash I would have taken the same stance as the bus driver or train crew mentioned by the OP.

[RPI]

Errrm your pass was "only" a week out of date? So how many time had you travelled on it before you were caught?

[*RainbowTears*]

Hi,

I worked for London Transport as a 'clippie' & I had many instances where a passenger didn't have enough money. When I was new I did my utmost to help a passenger who was a few pennies short. But I soon learned that as I tallied up after my shifts I had to put in anything I was down on, as it was MY responsibility. All them pennies soon added up as you can imagine. I worked as a Clippie for 4 years & it was horrible turning passengers away who were short in change but there was no way I could cover it.

 

So whilst I have sympathy to your situation of being 5p short, I do understand why the driver turned you away.

 

Regards

[timbo58]

RPI is spot on with his comment.

The pass was a week out of date, therefore I suspect the ticket examiner assumed you had possibly avoided the fare a few times before anyone noticed.

Hence there was no way he'd accept a short fare that (as others have said) he might have to explain or even pay in for himself.

 

FWIW when I joined BR in 1994 we could (and did) have floats that were often short or up by a few quid but generally balanced out.

By the time I left in 2009 the (now privatised TOC) demanded a form to be filled in which could lead to disciplinary investigation for ANY discrepancy no matter how small.

 

It's ironic that often when I heard someone complain about 'customers rights' they were usually defending paying less than they should have or not at all, although to be fair maybe these are the ones that I remember as they stood out so much in my mind.

 

I found the 'argument' laughable -customer infers someone who pays for the service only AFAIAA?

Edited November 28, 2012 by timbo58