Universal Jobmatch

[jbaker2009]

Ahem. I would rather hope that patience, understanding and compassion were three key elements necessary in a customer orientated position such as those of an adviser in JC+ and certainly for anyone involved with the training of others.

Ahem. When did I say I was an advisor for JCP? I am not.

 

I have lots of patience for people who want to learn I spend the majority of my day sitting with customers who have never used computers in their life, an ask me where the 'A' button is. Am a very patient person and are thanked a lot for the help I provide. I don't have patience for people who make what I call stupid remarks, when if they actually tried out the system, and read the terms and conditions and privacy policy they would have a more slight understanding of what it is about.

 

Edit: Also speaking to their advisor would help greatly

Edited January 8, 2013 by jbaker2009

[jbaker2009]

No, you can go ahead and state some if you wish. Was it a specific consideration when the system was designed, do you know?

 

The logical technicalities of trying to setup a system where someone's CV would be sent out automatically to an employer is immense.

The amount of data needed from someone to get a decent match would be quite large, and with the amount of people up in arms about UJ, which requires 7 'bits' of information, you can imagine the amount of people that would complain if they had to provide much more in depth detail about themselves to the Government.

 

People's lives are very complex, from hard family relationships, sick family members, children, unplanned accidents. If a person's CV was sent out automatically, the very next day a 'incident' may occur where that person may not be able to attend and interview or whatever that employers recruiting technique is, thus possibly breaking their Jobseeker agreement of not attending a job interview.

 

Do you not like the option to pick and choose what jobs you can apply for?

[antone]

OK, ladies and gentlemen. Civility please.

 

Oh, did I say "please"? I can be so cute sometimes.

[jbaker2009]

Is lively discussion not allowed here?

[beezley]

It is the stuff only buffoons could make up.

 

"Hmm, who can we get to get to run our superb new job site, storing the data of millions of people's personal data" said the government minister.

 

"I know" said the DWP IT specialist "Monster" with a helpful little smile.

 

"What the one that got hacked, excellent idea...."

 

http://metro.co.uk/2009/01/27/monster-job-site-hit-by-biggest-hacking-theft-in-british-history-388749/

[antone]

Is lively discussion not allowed here?

 

Ehm, if posters can be civil, discussion is fine. But this isn't really a debate forum - we're here to help people with benefit problems.

[stikky62]

'Do you not like the option to pick and choose what jobs you can apply for?'

 

Of course, but why should we have to give a reason for not applying for a job?

 

Is this just a way to check we're actually looking at job vacancies? If so, it's just a means to a sanction. If not, why is it there?

[jbaker2009]

Ehm, if posters can be civil, discussion is fine. But this isn't really a debate forum - we're here to help people with benefit problems.

 

I see, I am new here, so I will stick to a much more advice type role of information giving.

[jbaker2009]

'Do you not like the option to pick and choose what jobs you can apply for?'

 

Of course, but why should we have to give a reason for not applying for a job?

 

Is this just a way to check we're actually looking at job vacancies? If so, it's just a means to a sanction. If not, why is it there?

 

Who told you, you had to give a reason why you couldn't apply for a job?

You do not have to give a reason.

 

"Is this just a way to check we're actually looking at job vacancies?"

As of right now, no.

 

If you see a job that is 100 miles away, and you say, for the reason why you did not apply, 'Job is too far from my home' then you will not be sanctioned.

 

It's there, from what I believe, to help improve the site.

Let's say 500,000 people use the site, and all 500k give a reason why they did not apply for a job. So 300k say that the job is too far from their home, that would tell them that they need to implement refinements that improve the ability to match people to a job that is closer to them.

 

Edit: I would recommend giving a reason as it only takes like 10 seconds, if that, and really helps improve the site, which will in turn benefit you.

[antone]

I see, I am new here, so I will stick to a much more advice type role of information giving.

 

Fair enough - it's worth getting a feel for the forum culture. FWIW, the reason for the rule isn't really to suppress debate and discussion as such, obviously there will be differences of opinion and it's OK to explore those. But, many of our new posters are vulnerable and worried. If the first thing they see when seeking advice is a bunch of folks slinging abuse at each other, well, they'll be scared off.

 

In a sense, I was preemptive with my warning. Years of experience of how these things go, you know?

[flumps1976]

jbaker if you are matched to a vacancy by your adviser and you decide not to apply for it then thre is an option to state why the customer chose not to apply and really it should be completed so the adviser at JCP can look (if permission is granted to view the account) at the reasons as it could be referred to DMA or not depending on the reason given on that screen.

The only vacancies that he adviser will really be looking at in the JCP when the customer attends for their advisory meeting are the previously saved vacancies and at newly posted vacancies that matych the current JSAg.

 

Personally I find it a bit strange that there is somebody in place (to provide training and further advice whre needed) within a JCP to give advice about UJM, in the district I work in we don't have such a person and use the good tips emails that are cascaded via e-mail from district office and we also have a very good digital chamion on site who is mine of information for those who need to use UJM (both customers and staff alike)

[jbaker2009]

Fair enough - it's worth getting a feel for the forum culture. FWIW, the reason for the rule isn't really to suppress debate and discussion as such, obviously there will be differences of opinion and it's OK to explore those. But, many of our new posters are vulnerable and worried. If the first thing they see when seeking advice is a bunch of folks slinging abuse at each other, well, they'll be scared off.

 

In a sense, I was preemptive with my warning. Years of experience of how these things go, you know?

 

I understand, and I understand why you came in with a pre-emptive warning, yes maybe saying are you trying to be annoying, might of been a little brash, but am not going to treat anyone like a child and it wouldn't of gone any further than that.

[RaeUK]

Ahem. When did I say I was an advisor for JCP? I am not. ...

 

Ahem. Apologies. You actually said you train JC staff and help customers in JC with online services. Mea culpa.

 

Out of interest, are you switching the size of the font in your replies or is their a fault somewhere?

[jbaker2009]

jbaker if you are matched to a vacancy by your adviser and you decide not to apply for it then thre is an option to state why the customer chose not to apply and really it should be completed so the adviser at JCP can look (if permission is granted to view the account) at the reasons as it could be referred to DMA or not depending on the reason given on that screen.

The only vacancies that he adviser will really be looking at in the JCP when the customer attends for their advisory meeting are the previously saved vacancies and at newly posted vacancies that matych the current JSAg.

 

Personally I find it a bit strange that there is somebody in place (to provide training and further advice whre needed) within a JCP to give advice about UJM, in the district I work in we don't have such a person and use the good tips emails that are cascaded via e-mail from district office and we also have a very good digital chamion on site who is mine of information for those who need to use UJM (both customers and staff alike)

 

Am pretty sure stikky62 was talking about when applying for jobs that are just on the site or in the recommended jobs section. Not talking about jobs that have been saved by an advisor, maybe stikky62 could elaborate to make this clear. But my impression was that it was for jobs just on the site, not saved jobs.

 

Am pretty sure you are mistaken. An advisor, on JSA, checks to see what they have done to look for work, so looking in the 'Application history' and 'Activity history' of the UJ site and obviously if a job was saved by an advisor, if they had applied for that job.

 

In the district I attend I work under the Digital Champion, I help him to do his job. He delegates work down to me, like to create 'How To Guides' on how to register and other guides, amongst many other jobs. In which training staff and helping customers with UJ.

[jbaker2009]

Ahem. Apologies. You actually said you train JC staff and help customers in JC with online services. Mea culpa.

 

Out of interest, are you switching the size of the font in your replies or is their a fault somewhere?

I do... your point is?

 

When I post something, then go to edit it, it changes something an I then have to go back in mess with it, I just think it's me and the fact am new here.

[RaeUK]

I do... your point is?

I inadvertantly intimated you were a JC+ Advisor, you corrected that, I posted my error with an apology. Basic good manners I thought ...

 

When I post something, then go to edit it, it changes something an I then have to go back in mess with it, I just think it's me and the fact am new here.

 

Ah. Pesky things computers.

[jbaker2009]

I inadvertantly intimated you were a JC+ Advisor, you corrected that, I posted my error with an apology. Basic good manners I thought ...

 

 

 

Ah. Pesky things computers.

 

Ahh I see, I can clear this up right now. I am not a Jobcentre Advisor nor am I employed by the Jobcentre! I apologise if it came across that way, I just help staff and customers with UJ and IT problems. I create guides for staff and customers that are handed out to customers to help them.

 

Ohh my bad I didn't realise, no worries, mistakes happen, it's all good.

[RaeUK]

Absolutely no worries and clearly crossed wires. A good reminder to all of us of how easily confusion can arise when you're conversing only in text.

[jbaker2009]

Absolutely no worries and clearly crossed wires. A good reminder to all of us of how easily confusion can arise when you're conversing only in text.

 

So true! A lot harder to get your point across via text only

Saying that all the information I have stated Is correct at the time of it being posted.

[stikky62]

Am pretty sure stikky62 was talking about when applying for jobs that are just on the site or in the recommended jobs section. Not talking about jobs that have been saved by an advisor, maybe stikky62 could elaborate to make this clear. But my impression was that it was for jobs just on the site, not saved jobs.

 

Am pretty sure you are mistaken. An advisor, on JSA, checks to see what they have done to look for work, so looking in the 'Application history' and 'Activity history' of the UJ site and obviously if a job was saved by an advisor, if they had applied for that job.

 

In the district I attend I work under the Digital Champion, I help him to do his job. He delegates work down to me, like to create 'How To Guides' on how to register and other guides, amongst many other jobs. In which training staff and helping customers with UJ.

 

I'm talking about when an advisor has access to your account.

If I gave access to my account to DWP I would have to apply for any saved jobs by an advisor or it could lead to a sanction. Giving a reason for not applying is also evidence we've actually looked at the vacancy's description/page. I don't see any of it as being of help, just a way for DWP to 'spy' on us and sanction at the earliest possible moment. I can't think of a reason not to sign up to UJM if you're genuinely job hunting (in fact you have to to apply for some jobs! - I say apply, I mean just fire off a CV,, and thats no good in most cases) but the threat of sanctions seems a fantastic reason for not allowing DWP access.

 

 

edit: I just had a quick look on direct.gov. Of the 8 reasons you can give for not applying for a job, 5 can definately possibly lead to sanctions. 1 of the remaining 3 is dodgy also (doesn't match skills). 'Too far from home' would have to be proved (90 mins by jet isn't it - max distance?) which just leaves 'already applied' as the only 'safe' option.

Edited January 9, 2013 by stikky62

[jbaker2009]

I'm talking about when an advisor has access to your account.

If I gave access to my account to DWP I would have to apply for any saved jobs by an advisor or it could lead to a sanction. Giving a reason for not applying is also evidence we've actually looked at the vacancy's description/page. I don't see any of it as being of help, just a way for DWP to 'spy' on us and sanction at the earliest possible moment. I can't think of a reason not to sign up to UJM if you're genuinely job hunting (in fact you have to to apply for some jobs! - I say apply, I mean just fire off a CV,, and thats no good in most cases) but the threat of sanctions seems a fantastic reason for not allowing DWP access.

 

 

edit: I just had a quick look on direct.gov. Of the 8 reasons you can give for not applying for a job, 5 can definately possibly lead to sanctions. 1 of the remaining 3 is dodgy also (doesn't match skills). 'Too far from home' would have to be proved (90 mins by jet isn't it - max distance?) which just leaves 'already applied' as the only 'safe' option.

 

Please to try to be more clear with the questions you ask... I assumed you meant something else previously, but I can still answer this for you.

 

For starters an advisor can only access your account when you are there with them, so you and the advisor are both looking at the screen while the advisor is looking for jobs for you to save.

So that's your opportunity to speak up and get involved, an advisor shouldn't just be saving jobs for you and making you apply for them, it should be more of a two way street.

 

Ill create a scenario, you go in to the Jobcentre to sign on, the advisor says okay let's look at your account and see what you have been doing, he/she checks and everything is fine.

Now the advisor wants to save some jobs for you, because it's their job to help you find a job, so they could look through your recommended jobs and say okay there's a job here stikky62 and its 10 miles from your home, it's pretty much the industry you want to work in, you have the relevant skills to do the job, do you want me to save it for you?

If an advisor knows you quite well they should know what skills you have, know what your CV contains and will only be saving jobs for you that you can do.

 

About the drop down menu for selecting reasons why you don't want to apply.

While searching for a job you should automatically limit the amount of miles you search within, selecting 10 - 20 miles for people without a car and 30 miles for people with a car.

The site can still pull jobs outside this 10 - 20 mile area, choosing the 'Job is too far from my home' is fine to use if it is actually too far.

 

The only 3 from the drop down menu that will get you in trouble are, 'Job doesn't match my interests' well you can always do a job while looking for another job you love.

Another would be 'Job is below my salary requirements' a job is a job national minimum wage.

And 'I'm not interested in this job at this time' saying this to a job you can apply for and is actually something you could do is going to get you in hot water, unless you provide a good reason verbally.

 

Hope this helps.

[sillygirl1]

Surely if a job is below salary requirements you would still be on benefits, ie housing and council tax benefit.

 

In my case a minimum salary job would barely cover my travel costs let alone my rent. This has already been proven to the DWP - they know the price of the train fares locally (and bus fares) and the fact I have 30+ years solid director level experience as a PA/Administrator would mean some company would get a lot of skills and experience for nowt!

 

I also stated to the DWP that should it be proven that I have more skills and experience than the highest paid person in that company then after a trial period I should be on or above their salary, but of course that would not happen, I would be penalised for being 'unemployable due to attitude problem'.!

[Chester6]

signed on and the adviser didn't look at my book or the site to see what I had done

what is the point of the site?

[stikky62]

Please to try to be more clear with the questions you ask... I assumed you meant something else previously, but I can still answer this for you.

 

For starters an advisor can only access your account when you are there with them, so you and the advisor are both looking at the screen while the advisor is looking for jobs for you to save.

So that's your opportunity to speak up and get involved, an advisor shouldn't just be saving jobs for you and making you apply for them, it should be more of a two way street.

 

Ill create a scenario, you go in to the Jobcentre to sign on, the advisor says okay let's look at your account and see what you have been doing, he/she checks and everything is fine.

Now the advisor wants to save some jobs for you, because it's their job to help you find a job, so they could look through your recommended jobs and say okay there's a job here stikky62 and its 10 miles from your home, it's pretty much the industry you want to work in, you have the relevant skills to do the job, do you want me to save it for you?

If an advisor knows you quite well they should know what skills you have, know what your CV contains and will only be saving jobs for you that you can do.

 

About the drop down menu for selecting reasons why you don't want to apply.

While searching for a job you should automatically limit the amount of miles you search within, selecting 10 - 20 miles for people without a car and 30 miles for people with a car.

The site can still pull jobs outside this 10 - 20 mile area, choosing the 'Job is too far from my home' is fine to use if it is actually too far.

 

The only 3 from the drop down menu that will get you in trouble are, 'Job doesn't match my interests' well you can always do a job while looking for another job you love.

Another would be 'Job is below my salary requirements' a job is a job national minimum wage.

And 'I'm not interested in this job at this time' saying this to a job you can apply for and is actually something you could do is going to get you in hot water, unless you provide a good reason verbally.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

Thanks for the info on 'saving' jobs - I understand that

 

'If an advisor knows you quite well' - I see a different 'advisor' all the time so there's no chance any of them will get to know me. Each time I go in I 'wonder what this ones going to be like' (some are really nice, some are definately in the wrong job!)

 

'Job isn't in my desired industry' and 'Job doesn't match my career level' can also get you in trouble. As you said earlier, if you CAN do a job you are expected to apply. The fact you might not particularly like it or have to work at a career level way below what you have previously achieved counts for nothing.

[stikky62]

signed on and the adviser didn't look at my book or the site to see what I had done

what is the point of the site?

 

Q2: What is the point of an 'advisor'?