help required with BCW Group

[Lushbury]

Can some one please advise, I had wrote to these muppets BCW Group and received the below response. They had threatened with a door-step call and i sent them the standard letter and go this reply.

 

Client: Aktiv Kapital UK Limited

Client Ref: xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Final Response

 

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

I write with regard to your email of xx November 2012 issued in relation to the aforementioned account.

 

I can confirm we have undertaken substantive investigations into your claims and have concluded that your complaint has been refuted. The reasons for this are detailed below.

 

BCW Group acts in good faith on the information and instructions issued to us by our clients. We are passed this information on the basis that the information provided is true and correct at the time of issue. We were, at no time, advised by our client of any ongoing disputes or unresolved complaint issues. In this instance, we were passed an account in your name with instructions to pursue for the full balance accordingly. By passing the matter to this office for debt recovery purposes our client was satisfied that the balance is due and collectable.

 

I have duly noted the comments made in your above referenced email. The attached correspondence has previously been investigated and responded to. The response has been attached for your consideration.

 

The case you have referred to is not applicable to your circumstances. As part of the credit agreement that you signed and entered into, you agreed to repay the full outstanding balance and that where necessary the creditor could recover the debt by outsourcing the debt to a third party, which included by way of doorstep collection. We are entitled by law and under contract to recover monies outstanding and we are allowed to take reasonable steps in accordance with regulatory guidance to recover such monies.

 

The OFT’s Guidance on Debt Collection reference to making an appointment on field visits relates to, where say, the Agent has called round and advised by the customer that it was not a convenient time, then he should make another appointment. An appointment is not necessary for the initial visit. If however, the customer is not there at the agreed time, then the Agent can call again at an unscheduled time.

 

The stage in which we issue a Debt Investigation Officer forms part of our automated collections process. This is pre-determined by our client. A visit from a Debt Investigations Officer is only proposed when every other available means of contacting you has been exhausted and an amicable resolution in this matter remains absent. We have attempted to contact you on a number of occasions prior to our letter in which we advise of our intent to arrange a personal visit from a Debt Investigations Officer. We are therefore satisfied that we have afforded sufficient opportunity for you to contact us to discuss this account.

 

I have enclosed herewith a copy of our internal complaints procedure. Should you remain dissatisfied with this response, you have 6 months from the date of this letter in which to contact the Financial Ombudsman Service to facilitate resolution. Details on how your complaint will be handled by the Financial Ombudsman Service can be found by following this link:

 

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/consumer-leaflet.htm

 

 

Please do not hesitate to contact us on 0845 111 0411 should you require any further assistance. You can also e-mail on [email protected]

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

 

Miss Ashley Douglas

Quality Assurance Administrator

BCW Group

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Take it to FOS cost BCW so go ahead.

The OFT guidance still applies what ever nonsence BCW may spout, it is unfair no to give regard to a debtors reasonable requests at to when, where and how they are contacted!

 

So they are wrong if you have notified them that you will not allow visits in writting then the visit should not be made.

[Lushbury]

I have sent the below response, What do you think???

 

Dear Miss Douglas,

 

Thank you for you mail, I have forwarded a copy to the Financial Ombudsman and have asked them to clarify your comments on Door Step collection.

 

I refute your claim and do not acknowledge any debt to you or Aktiv Capital.

 

I am familiar with the CPUTR 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading's Guidance on debt collection, which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. AND in not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question.

 

I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Please be advised that I have made a complaint to Trading Standards and also have informed the Office Of Fair Trading of your actions.

 

Furthermore, I would like to remind you should it still be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

Regards,

[Lushbury]

ok

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

That's fine, make sure you Rd it and check receipt.

[Lushbury]

thanks

[Bandit127]

Personally I would have included the requirement for a copy of the agreement they refer to in your letter. Save yourself a quid on a CCA request and, should they fail to comply, put the account in dispute and tell them to Foxtrot Oscar when you like.

[bigshoes...bigsocks]

Take it to FOS cost BCW so go ahead.

.

 

How much Brig out of interest...!? I have a few low value debts so if it's above a certain amount then a threat of this for various failures on their part looks inviting (from my perspective anyways..!)

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

£500 per complaint I think they have to pay for the process.

[bigshoes...bigsocks]

£500 per complaint I think they have to pay for the process.

 

thanks; good to know... my debts are less then that so it's a viable threat to their incompetence at responding to basic requests.

 

It would be good to know how much the original poster's debt is for... interesting that they'd signpost someone to the FOS if it were going to cost them (especially if its more than the value of the debt!?)

 

p.s only playing with my post on that other thread... it's been a long day!

Edited November 14, 2012 by bigshoes...bigsocks
spelling.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

It is a requirement to notify the debtor of their rights.

 

Please be careful and considerate when posting.

[bigshoes...bigsocks]

It is a requirement to notify the debtor of their rights.

 

 

Playing Devil's Advocate but why has a DCA never suggested I make a request under the CCAct for a copy of the agreement as surely that's a right of mine (a debtor)?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Because they don't have to!!

 

One is a complaint resolution the other a request for information!

[bigshoes...bigsocks]

but they do have to signpost you to the FOS?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

NO it is a totally different circumstance.

 

AS said one is a complaint the other a request for information.

[Lushbury]

Thanks Bandit, I will wait for a reply and then hit them with that. I was just looking back at my file and found a copy of an application Aktiv had sent me when I asked them for a true copy of the contract, it was an application and not any credit contract, and dated 2003. Well I think the next move will be to send them a statute-barred letter.

 

Any one ? Any thoughts?

 

 

Personally I would have included the requirement for a copy of the agreement they refer to in your letter. Save yourself a quid on a CCA request and, should they fail to comply, put the account in dispute and tell them to Foxtrot Oscar when you like.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Failure to comply in this situation would not appy as it is not a formal request under CCA1974.

[Lushbury]

Well i have a response:

 

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

I write in regards to the below correspondence, the contents of which have been noted.

 

Having reviewed our system file I note we have previously addressed the issues raised in the below email and therefore can only reiterate our previous comments. Our client have advised a copy agreement and statements have been issued to you in relation to this matter. If you wish to dispute liability, please furnish us with details and documentation in support of such a contention. In the absence of this, we will be unaware of any valid explanation as to why collection activity should be ceased on the account.

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

Miss Ashley Douglas

Quality Assurance Administrator

BCW Group

[Lushbury]

was thinking of sending her this as a response to her mail????

 

Dear Miss Douglas,

 

 

Thank you for your reply, the contents of which have been noted.

 

Aktiv Kapital have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the alleged account.

 

On 06/01/09 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/78.

 

Aktiv Kapital have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on 20/01/09.

 

The document that they were obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become currently unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

You have 21 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I look forward to hearing from you. This should be in writing, I have no wish to correspond by telephone.

 

Yours faithfully

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Ok,

Stop e-mail contact.

Send the following letter to the Compliance Manager at BCW.

 

ref: as on their letter.

 

I refer to your correspondence dated in which you allege that your client has provided documentation regarding this alleged debt, no copy of a compliant regulated consumer credit agreement has been supplied at any time, therefore your statements are refuted and the matter remains in dispute.

(now this next section you can use if your are sure this is statute barred.)

 

I must thank the BCW Group for prompting me to check my credit history and having done so I have concluded that any such alleged debt is statute barred, therefore I will not know or in the future make any payment or offer of payment in regard to the allged debt.

 

For clarity and to avoid any misunderstanding I do not acknowledge any liability for the alleged debt, this debt is statute barred and I will not make any payment.

 

I am fully aware of the OFT Guidance on Debt Collection and the section regarding statute barred debt.

I would remind you that if you contest the status of the allged debt the onus of proof falls totally on your company and you must prove unequivically that the debt is not statute barred.

 

Recorded Delivery check receipt.

[Lushbury]

Thank you Brigadier, I will send them this letter today. I have checked the file and AKTIV KAP had sent me a copy of an application and some T&C's dated 2003, im not 100% sure if it is SB, but looking at the dates it seems to me it could be. The original lender was barclay card, is there some law on agreements/applications before 2007 not being enforceable?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

A reconstituted agreement in your case an app form and a statement satisfies a section 77/78 request under CCA 1974 but if the agreement is pre April 2007 the original will be requred to enforce via the courts.

A recon must have all the Ts and Cs relating to the account at inception and all amendments and The Ts and Cs at the closure or current ones.

[Lushbury]

right, so best option here really is to push the SB and see where it leads, the agreement is 2003, im sure its been near 6 years since they have had a payment or any thing.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

right, so best option here really is to push the SB and see where it leads, the agreement is 2003, im sure its been near 6 years since they have had a payment or any thing.

Yes it can only do good, it is not acknowledgment of any liability.

[Lushbury]

Thank you for all your support.