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Hello Cleo,

 

They used Fenton cooper and then Rockwell on me. One little letter should send them packing;).

 

Do indeed write to them and ask them to liase with M&S regarding the legally disputed account and inform them that you will retain all of their nasty correspondence for your harassment file. Also tell them to remove all of your personal data from their data bases and you require written confirmation of this.

 

I would also write to M&S and tell them they are breaching the data protection act by passing your personal data to 3rd parties and you will hold them responsible for this harassment.

 

They know exactly what little game they are up to:rolleyes: I would imagine that you are only one of many of their disputes they have and they are trying to scare with the use of the dca, and many will fold and pay up money that they can ill afford when they get treating letter of a dca.

What I find so unbelievable is that M & S sent me some documentation in response to my CCA request. They also sent reverse document to another M & S customer which is exactly the same - same postmark , same identifying marks. I have asked for the original to be made available and they have not even acknowledged this in their reply - completely evaded the issue. Thanks I will write asap - I would be interested to see if anyone else has had the same document ???

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M&S tend to grab anything that looks sortof maybe suitable, and send it off in the hope that people won't notice.

 

This rather suggests that they only have copies, and have no idea what copy goes with which Customer.

 

Excellent, just the sort of banker we like...utterly clueless.

 

Cheers,

BRW

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Have now had another leter from Yvonne Sneddon basically that once and for LL THE ACCOUNT IS NOT IN DISPUTE - WE HAVE NOT PROVIDED THEM WITH EVIDENCE OF THIS ETC ETC ETC.......

 

They wrote saying also that original terms and conditions were unavailable but the fact that we signed them at the beginning is enough - they still don't admit to terminating the account and keep getting letters from Blair Oliver Scott.

 

I despair!!!

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They sent a DN dated 12th December - giving me until 26th December (boxing day) so invalid DN as I understand it - then have put in writing TWICE that agreement is terminated. They have then denied in writing that agreement is terminated???????

 

Forgive my ignorance but what is a repudiation please

 

I have quoted Woodchester v Swayne to them in my correspondence but they still continue to process the account adding interest and charges so the arrears are getting more each month, but I understand it is the arrears at the time of default notice that have to be recovered???

 

Would you write again using the word repudiation - they just don't listen!!!!

 

Try Unlawful termination :grin:

 

Have now had another leter from Yvonne Sneddon basically that once and for LL THE ACCOUNT IS NOT IN DISPUTE - WE HAVE NOT PROVIDED THEM WITH EVIDENCE OF THIS ETC ETC ETC.......

 

They wrote saying also that original terms and conditions were unavailable but the fact that we signed them at the beginning is enough - they still don't admit to terminating the account and keep getting letters from Blair Oliver Scott.

 

I despair!!!

 

If you have photocopied the letters of termination to them, then I think that is all you can really do, short of taking THEM to court ?

 

I am wondering if this is a scenario the FOS would get involved with. Have you spoken to Trading Standards, see what they have to say. It is absolutely bizarre that you have in your possession letters of termination, yet, both BLair Oliver and BOS are denying the existence of same. :confused:

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Have now had another leter from Yvonne Sneddon basically that once and for LL THE ACCOUNT IS NOT IN DISPUTE - WE HAVE NOT PROVIDED THEM WITH EVIDENCE OF THIS ETC ETC ETC.......

 

They wrote saying also that original terms and conditions were unavailable but the fact that we signed them at the beginning is enough - they still don't admit to terminating the account and keep getting letters from Blair Oliver Scott.

 

I despair!!!

 

 

Hi Cleo:) same old cr*p letters they keep sending. :rolleyes:

 

Milly XX

CAPITAL ONE (O/H!): Won £1864.63 including contractual :D

GE MONEY: WON £266.00

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Hello Cleo!

 

Thanks for the PM.

 

I would just send Rockwell a letter saying you acknowledge their response, and you have noted the fact that they are not willing to respond to a Statutory s78(1) Request. This confirms they have no rights to demand any payment from you, nor to make further contact with you on behalf of M&S.

 

You may like to suggest that they acquaint themselves with The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, and s78(6) of The Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Also send them a copy of this:

 

OFT imposes requirements on Mackenzie Hall to improve handling of disputed debts

 

...just to make it clear what the implications of their s78(1) Refusal are, and how the OFT expects the holder of a Consumer Credit Licence to conduct themselves when handling disputed Agreements.

 

Close by saying the alleged Agreement is in very clear dispute and, until such time as they furnish you with an enforceable Agreement, you will not converse with them any further.

 

In the light of the above, any further demands for Payment by them will be reported to The Office of Fair Trading (don't bother with FOS, they are a complete waste of space), and will be regarded as harassment.

 

Cheers,

BRW

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preference account was passed to IQOR - had several letters from them but they must have passed the account back after I wrote to them - have now had similar letter from Wescot - here we go again!!

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Cleo, have you sent the the complaint to the OFT ?

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/50-complaint-in-respect-of-dca-threat-re-expired-debt/101-complaint-in-respect-of-invalid-cca-agreement

 

Amend the letter to suit and enclose a copy of the CCA if you have it or just say that you dont have a copy if you havent....

 

Then send a copy of the OFT letter and a covering letter to the DCA who is flavour of the day, saying..

 

Dear Sirs,

 

This account is and has been in dispute with the original creditor and subsequent (50) DCAs to whom they have been passing this account.

 

I would adivse you that I am now sending complaints to the OFT in respect of each DCA who has made attempts to collect or attempts to do so in the future whilst it is in dispute.

 

Please find a copy of the letter I am sending to the OFT today in respect of your letter dated (whenever).

 

Yours faithfully.. fed up and truly p*ssed off.

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Cleo, have you sent the the complaint to the OFT ?

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/50-complaint-in-respect-of-dca-threat-re-expired-debt/101-complaint-in-respect-of-invalid-cca-agreement

 

Amend the letter to suit and enclose a copy of the CCA if you have it or just say that you dont have a copy if you havent....

 

Then send a copy of the OFT letter and a covering letter to the DCA who is flavour of the day, saying..

 

Dear Sirs,

 

This account is and has been in dispute with the original creditor and subsequent (50) DCAs to whom they have been passing this account.

 

I would adivse you that I am now sending complaints to the OFT in respect of each DCA who has made attempts to collect or attempts to do so in the future whilst it is in dispute.

 

Please find a copy of the letter I am sending to the OFT today in respect of your letter dated (whenever).

 

Yours faithfully.. fed up and truly p*ssed off.

many thanks - I went back through all the paperwork and BOTH my BOS agreements have definitely been terminated in writing. I have found strength in this site

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Hello Cleo!

 

Thanks for the PM.

 

I would just send Rockwell a letter saying you acknowledge their response, and you have noted the fact that they are not willing to respond to a Statutory s78(1) Request. This confirms they have no rights to demand any payment from you, nor to make further contact with you on behalf of M&S.

 

You may like to suggest that they acquaint themselves with The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, and s78(6) of The Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Also send them a copy of this:

 

OFT imposes requirements on Mackenzie Hall to improve handling of disputed debts

 

...just to make it clear what the implications of their s78(1) Refusal are, and how the OFT expects the holder of a Consumer Credit Licence to conduct themselves when handling disputed Agreements.

 

Close by saying the alleged Agreement is in very clear dispute and, until such time as they furnish you with an enforceable Agreement, you will not converse with them any further.

 

In the light of the above, any further demands for Payment by them will be reported to The Office of Fair Trading (don't bother with FOS, they are a complete waste of space), and will be regarded as harassment.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Well I received letter from Rockwell today :

 

"We can confirm that we are no longer dealing with this matter, and our files have now been closed.

THANKS!!!!!to all for help -

 

I know it's not the end of it but at least I have fended them off with help

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Nice one Cleo, with good support from BRW

 

:D:cool:

We could do with some help from you

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Nice one Cleo, with good support from BRW

 

:D:cool:

I have found BRW (and others) terrific support.

 

What gets me is Rockwell went from Being swayed by M & S to pester us to completely backing off. I did not "show my hand" fully in the letter but made Rockwell aware of an issue that "M & S are well aware of..." as I put it in my letter.

many thanks again (until the next time!!)

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Cleo, have you sent the the complaint to the OFT ?

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/50-complaint-in-respect-of-dca-threat-re-expired-debt/101-complaint-in-respect-of-invalid-cca-agreement

 

Amend the letter to suit and enclose a copy of the CCA if you have it or just say that you dont have a copy if you havent....

 

Then send a copy of the OFT letter and a covering letter to the DCA who is flavour of the day, saying..

 

Dear Sirs,

 

This account is and has been in dispute with the original creditor and subsequent (50) DCAs to whom they have been passing this account.

 

I would adivse you that I am now sending complaints to the OFT in respect of each DCA who has made attempts to collect or attempts to do so in the future whilst it is in dispute.

 

Please find a copy of the letter I am sending to the OFT today in respect of your letter dated (whenever).

 

Yours faithfully.. fed up and truly p*ssed off.

Hi all - am getting paperwork all sorted - need to contact FOS now. However TODAY I have now received this from Blair Oliver Scott

 

NOTICE OF INTENDED COURT ACTION:

 

SUM CLAIMED XXXX DUE BY 26/06/09 (YESTERDAY)

 

FORMAL NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN THAT OUR CLIENT HAS INSTRUCTED US TO COMMENCE COURT PROCEEDINGS WITHOUT DELAY. PAPERS ARE NOW BEING PREPARED FOR COMMENCEMENT OF ACTION THROUGH YOUR LOCAL COURT TO SEEK A JUDGMENT AGAINST YOU.

IF YOU RE A HOMEOWNER......

 

YOU MUST MAKE A PAYMENT TO STOP ACTION BEING TAKEN.....

 

I am loathe to make a payment as BOS have terminated this agreement after a dodgy DN. What is the next step for me please ????? thanks

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Here you go cleo, The letter below, suitably amended should sort them out. :D The bits highlighted in blue are those you need to amend ie date and the specific threats they have made. If it is an illegible document you have then amend the letter to reflect that. Post recorded delivery minimum.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1800199.html

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re :

 

THIS IS A REQUEST UNDER THE CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES.

PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE.

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 23rd October, this was received on 30th October 2008.

 

You have indicated that

 

a) You are giving Formal Notice that your client has instructed you to commence court proceedings against me without delay and

b) Papers are now being prepared for commencement of action through my local court to seek a judgement against me.

 

I am sure that you are aware that I have long since requested from your client, under both the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act) and the Data Protection Act 1998, a copy of the agreement to which both you and your client allege I am a signatory. To date this has not been provided to me and whilst I appreciate your client has endeavoured to persuade me that the provision of a copy of an application form is sufficient to discharge your client from further obligations under section 78 of the Act. Likewise I too have explained that the mere provision of a copy of an application form is not a legally permissable substitute for the provision of a true copy of the executed agreement as required under section 78 of the Act and as prescribed by Regulation 3 Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

I am sure you are also aware that under section 78(6) of the Act, whilst a creditor is in default of a request made under sub-section (1) they may not enforce the agreement.

 

Notwithstanding the foregoing and your client's persistent, unexplained and willful refusal to supply a copy of the executed agreement in accordance with its obligations (the permitted ommisions under Regulation 3(2) excepted), your client has made plain its intention to begin legal proceedings against me. In consequence this matter may now be treated as one which is subject to the control of the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

Take notice therefore that under CPR Practice Direction - Protocols paragraph 4.6(a) and (d), I request that you supply copies of the following documents:

 

[1] A true copy of the executed credit agreement incorporating prescribed notices, terms and conditions applicable at the time the agreement was executed and

[2] Any further or subsequent notices, terms and conditions relied upon.

 

Please note that my request under the Practice Direction is not a request for production within the confines of the Act and Regulations but rather, it is for a copy of the executed agreement, including signatures and all such other notices, terms and conditions as will be relied upon in the event that your client shall begin a claim.

 

A copy of the documents I have requested should be supplied to me within 14 days and you are urged not to begin proceedings for a period of not less than 14 days following the supply of those documents to me.

 

Should your client elect to ignore my request under the Practice Direction and commence proceedings, it is likely that I shall repeat my request for the provision of documents under CPR 31.14. In the event that your client should fail to comply with my CPR 31.14 request, I will not hesitate in making an application to the court for an order that further proceedings upon the claim be stayed pending provision of the requisite documents, in the course of which application I will of course refer to this and previous requests for the provision of copy documents.

 

I look forward to hearing from you within the time stated.

 

Yours faithfully,

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

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2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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As usual, I am catching up with threads over my coffee before having to dash off to do something, so this is just a quickie.

 

But ... I think I should flag up the Practice Direction reference is now superseded by the recently introduced Practice Direction on Pre Action Conduct.

 

You are still entitled to ask for documents but the reference will be different.

 

The Practice Direction will be on the MoJ website.

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thanks Citizen B and Viscount Stair. Is there a limit to how long they have to send me the document - am I right in understanding that should it be over £10k they have to provide them within 7 days? I also need to clarify how I would stand costs wise?

 

sorry for all the questions but this is my first time.

 

Incidentally I have it in writing from Bank of Scotland that the original terms and conditions are not available - that they have not terminated.

 

thanks again

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Here you go cleo, The letter below, suitably amended should sort them out. :D The bits highlighted in blue are those you need to amend ie date and the specific threats they have made. If it is an illegible document you have then amend the letter to reflect that. Post recorded delivery minimum.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1800199.html

 

Hi - before I prepare the letter - what is the correct Practice Direction part to quote (see viscount stairs post on this thread)

thanks

cleo

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I will try and find out what VS has referred to. BRB:D

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Cleo, TBH, I have had a looksee and I cant really work out what has been replaced .. by what and where. So I am afraid you will either have to rely on VS coming back and explaining further.. or not send the letter at all.

 

My apologies. x20 had drafted that letter so all the references were correct at the time. I will have to stop referring to it. :(

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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PRACTICE DIRECTION – PRE-ACTION CONDUCT - Ministry of Justice

 

The new Practice Direction came into force on 6 April this year. Annex A sets out a procedure to be followed.

 

Refer to Annex A, paragraphs 2.2(1) and 4.2(7). Also refer to paragraph 4.4(5) of the main PD and to paras 4.5 and 4.6.

 

BoS might argue that Annex A does not apply because it is a simple debt action subject to a statutory procedure but your counter to that is that they are on notice that there is a dispute and that they have failed to follow the statutory procedure.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Gotta go again but hope to be back in later.

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PRACTICE DIRECTION – PRE-ACTION CONDUCT - Ministry of Justice

 

The new Practice Direction came into force on 6 April this year. Annex A sets out a procedure to be followed.

 

Refer to Annex A, paragraphs 2.2(1) and 4.2(7). Also refer to paragraph 4.4(5) of the main PD and to paras 4.5 and 4.6.

 

BoS might argue that Annex A does not apply because it is a simple debt action subject to a statutory procedure but your counter to that is that they are on notice that there is a dispute and that they have failed to follow the statutory procedure.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Gotta go again but hope to be back in later.

 

Soooooooooo, should this sentence

 

Take notice therefore that under CPR Practice Direction - Protocols paragraph 4.6(a) and (d), I request that you supply copies of the following documents:

 

be replaced with

 

 

 

Examples of non-compliance

 

4.4

 

 

The court may decide that there has been a failure of compliance by a party because, for example, that party has –

 

(1) not provided sufficient information to enable the other party to understand the issues;

 

 

(2) not acted within a time limit set out in a relevant pre-action protocol, or, where no specific time limit applies, within a reasonable period;

 

 

(3) unreasonably refused to consider ADR (paragraph 8 in Part III of this Practice Direction and the pre-action protocols all contain similar provisions about ADR); or

 

 

(4) without good reason, not disclosed documents requested to be disclosed.

 

 

 

Thanks

 

 

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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