Davies group broken bath problem

[Ajeeba]

Hi,

 

i/ Firstly, have a quick look at the forum under HSBC Ireland Ltd and Davies on this site (including the Insurance 360 Survey). I've taken some of my comments from it for you:

 

1/ Loss Adjusting Companies are totally without Regulation from anyone. i.e. They are accountable to no one.

2/ The C.I.L.A. is of no assistance to the consumer when Loss Adjusters act with negligence & are sacked

3/ The F.S.A & F.S.O. do not regulate Loss Adjusting Companies.

4/ My MP & Consumer Focus have been made aware of this loophole at this time & the Treasury is looking into it.

5/ F.S.A. guidelines intended to protect the consumer are totally bypassed when Loss Adjusting Companies manage claims for Insurers.

6/ In short, Loss Adjusters are actively misleading consumers in conjunction with their panel firms in order to bypass time consuming, and sometimes, costly regulations such as Health and safety C.D.M. regs, Buildings regs & Listed Buildings Consents. They are also actively misleading consumers as to who should act as the client during claims, which is very important legally when things go wrong.

7/ I am collating evidence of where this happens and it appears to be widespread among several large Loss Adjusting Companies.

Hope this helps, but the bottom line is if a Loss Adjusting Company has you over, currently your only redress is to take costly & lengthy civil action against them. I intend on getting the Loss Adjusting Industry regulated by the new organisation which is taking over from the F.S.A., using my own example as a benchmark as to why regulation is urgently required and should always have been in place.......

 

I haven't posted 20 times so can't post a link but if you google: Insurance 360 groundbreaking 2010 Loss Adjusters survey, you will find the first ever independent survey conducted on Loss Adjusting companies performance. It confirms many key issues and is worth reading if you are unlucky enough to get one of the worst performing Loss Adjusting companies sent to you.

 

ii/ Secondly, the reality is that you have a very serious issue on your hands... In, summary, as the policy holder you should employ all agents and have contracts with them all. Without this you are totally unprotected legally in "contract and negligence". Loss Adjusters give you the impression that they or the Insurance company choose & employ these agents, but this is totally untrue. This is what they want you to believe so that they can control everything and totally evade legal responsibility if things go wrong.

 

You are under no obligation to accept the Loss Adjusters Agents and they will deny any involvement in picking or employing these agents if it goes wrong. As you are "the client","in legal terms and in the eyes of your Insurer" you should find or at least approve all the agents and have access to the Tender process, quotations, contracts, work schedules and reports/sign off documents/guarantees.

 

If you are unhappy with the agents picked and instructed by Davies, then confirm to your Insurer that "you have been misadvised as to your responsibilities as the Policy holder" and do the following:

 

Insist on a new Loss Adjusting Company taking over management of the claim or get your own Loss Adjuster to work for you.

Understand that unless you act and have contracts with all agents, you are not protected legally if they don't deliver as they should.

The bottom line is that, Loss Adjusters are protecting the Insurance Industry by very devious means and neither one of these have any interest in doing what you expect they would. In legal terms Loss Adjusters have complete immunity from prosecution since they owe you no "duty of care" in the courts eyes, "you have no contract with them" and "since they have no regulatory body to be accountable to". The C.I.L.A. will not help you since they do not regulate "Loss Adjusting Companies" as has been confirmed by Malcom Hyde (Executive Director of the C.I.L.A.) to Kirsty Williams AM on my behalf.

 

Honestly, The Davies Group are not to be trusted and you need to be aware that unless you know your legal rights and responsibilities they will take advantage of your ignorance to a staggering degree. Times have changed and Insurers do not make the money that they did in the past. "Private Venture Capitalist" Companies like Davies are cashing in on delivering for the Insurers at the expense of the policy holder.

 

"You must be the client and you must employ the agents."

"The agents do not work for your Insurer and they do not work for the Loss Adjusting Company no matter what they tell you or what they allude to."

"Keep all documentation and video/photograph everything that is done from day one."

 

Any deviation from this, then get it in black and white....You will find this impossible to do. This is the loophole that gets them out of being responsible for employing the worst and cheapest inept contractors that they can find......!! In the eyes of the Courts you employed them......if this is a shock to you, then ask your Insurer....!!! The Insurer has nothing to do with it and neither does the Loss Adjuster... In my case they employed a contractor that didn't even have Insurance to cover their work.....Don't be fooled times have changed and Davies and some others will do anything....Incredibly, as it stands now they are indeed "TOTALLY UNTOUCHABLE".... But not for much longer after I blow the lid on this scandalous industries methods of making a buck at our expense.....

 

The very best of luck and please let me know if you need some specific help. Last words of advice: DO NOT GIVE DAVIES A SECOND CHANCE......If your Insurer insists, come back to me and I will prove to you with firm evidence how The Davies Group were dismissed by the Insurer "Prestige". after 13 months for serious professional negligence. Funnily enough Zurich already know this and should not be using The Davies Group....one must wonder why??!!

 

Best wishes Richard.

 

 

 

Hi Richard, i just read through your posts and the stuff in newspaper about you, you are a great man. I think we all owe you something. any way i just had a problem with my bathroom the bath broke and its been leaking ynderneath ,demaging everhthing. Davies are comming tomorrow to inspect but it was after few phone calls. not sure what to expect, i m glad i found this website and specially you.please advise me , what to expect and what to do?

[richard withey]

Hi Richard, i just read through your posts and the stuff in newspaper about you, you are a great man. I think we all owe you something. Any way i just had a problem with my bathroom the bath broke and it’s been leaking underneath ,damaging everything. Davies are coming tomorrow to inspect but it was after few phone calls . Not sure what to expect, i m glad i found this website and specially you. Please advise me, what to expect and what to do?

 

Hi Ajeeba,

 

I’ll try and be brief and as helpful to you as I can at this time. To start on a positive note, you’ve already done the right thing by researching/preparing for who your insurance company are sending. I would ask you to read between the lines concerning what I am able to say at this time, since the threat of legal action has never been removed from my wife and I for speaking out. I offer my opinion in the Public interest for the protection of Consumers who have no Loss Adjusting Regulatory Body whatsoever to assist them under any circumstances.

 

I also mention that this is particularly key at this time since the Westminster Debate on Loss Adjusting Regulation I’ve lobbied for is imminent. Moreover, MPs have now also called for the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) to regulate “claims handling Companies” just last week!

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/house_of_commons/newsid_9766000/9766642.stm

 

However, if you do encounter problems then please feel free to email me through CAG private email and I can freely discuss things in detail with you as I did with Agniettio. Given that you have a Loss Adjuster arriving tomorrow and the time constraints that this implies, I will state some basic facts to get you going in the right direction. Fore mostly, without any Loss Adjuster Regulation, and with no legal redress against a Loss Adjusting Company, I would suggest that you always remain aware of the potential risks you are exposed to by accepting what they say and doing what they tell you.

 

Firstly to bear in mind, is that the Loss Adjuster will be visiting to establish in his/her opinion if you are covered under the terms of your Policy for the damage that has occurred. In itself this can be a complex and legal area, so refer to the Policy booklet/terms and conditions of cover that your Insurer issued. If you can’t find it, then request it again from your Insurer as soon as possible irrespective of whether you encounter any problems at this stage.

 

Also, consider that you may only ever see the Loss Adjuster once during the entire claim. Due to the way that some Loss Adjusters contracts with Insurers work, they sometimes only get a fixed fee for dealing with the claim, so don’t expect that a Loss Adjuster will return numerous times even if the claim drags on and becomes complex.

 

Even if no problems are encountered in establishing whether you are covered, it is always prudent to take photographs or video evidence of the damage and its surroundings for future use. It is also wise to keep a log of what you and the Loss Adjuster have done. Evidence can easily be proven by placing a dated newspaper in the photographs or using itemised phone bills to prove when and how many times you contacted or attempted to contact the Loss Adjuster.

 

Assuming you have a valid and undisputed claim, the most important thing to decide is who is going to assess and carry out the repair works. Substantial hidden Commissions are now being earned as a result of certain companies being given Insurance work. No one knows for sure the real cost as yet, but last year alone it has been suggested these hidden commissions cost the Insurance Industry and Policyholders over 100 million pounds. So be very aware of any services/Companies you are offered or pressured into accepting by a Loss Adjuster in order that extra remuneration is earned without you knowing.

 

If you do “for some reason” accept the Surveyors and/or Contractors put forward by a Loss Adjuster make sure you check their qualifications, experience and that they have adequate Insurance if their works fail. You must remember that anything you are verbally told counts for nothing. Always, always get what you have been told verbally by a Loss Adjuster documented in black and white.

 

Furthermore, if construction works do in fact proceed as a result of an Insurance claim, Health and Safety CDM 2007 regulations places responsibility on Loss Adjusting Companies. Not many people are currently aware of this, but suffice to say, this legislation does protect you as long as you know that it exists and what Loss Adjusters are responsible for doing.

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/cdm.htm

 

Lastly, and most importantly, remember to complain at a very early stage if you encounter resistance to basic activities and experience needless delays. Since you have no contractual relationship with the Loss Adjusting Company, always complain in writing to your broker and your Insurer in the first instance. Any further resistance from either of them and you can then complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). (N.B. Just remember the FOS will not investigate the actions of the Loss Adjusting Company)

 

It should also be noted that the Financial Ombudsman’s Service is currently receiving record numbers of Complaints and this process can be a seriously lengthy and stressful in itself. (The FOS received 135,170 complaints in the six months to the end of June 2012 and is busy with 1500 complaints a day on PPI issues alone!)

 

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/68/68-building_insurance.html

 

It’s only when things have gone wrong that people find out how vulnerable they are when dealing with a Loss Adjusting Company and the firms that they pass Insurance work onto. There is sadly no singular answer as to how to tackle the innumerate problems that are occurring under an unregulated and unaccountable system. Immediate Regulation by the the FCA is what I am pushing for and I leave one more final example to demonstrate this. Only with one singular Regulatory Body to cover Insurance claims from start to finish will we ever be Treated fairly and ensure that complaints such as that against the man detailed in this article are monitored, recorded and controlled at the earliest opportunity.

 

Best wishes, and I hope your claim is dealt with efficiently and resolved to your satisfaction in very good time. If not you know where I can be found…! Richard.

 

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1222794_sex_pest_insurance_man_groped_women_in_their_homes

[Ajeeba]

thanks Richard for reply. Davies came yesterday, the guy was very helpful but it could just be his politeness as i might not see him again, he took some photographs and wrote a report and said he will comeback to me. he also asked me to get some quotes from different people. I rang one Loss assessor and he said that my claim might not go through. he made me scared. i dont know what will hapen bt hoping for the best, will let you know.

[richard withey]

No Problem. That's all sounds fairly good so far, since you have been asked to get some quotes, which suggests he is happy that you have a valid claim and also that he is happy for you to find you own contractors to undertake the work....May I suggest you arrange for 3 quotes if possible, since this is what the insurance company will expect to see wherever possible.

To be fair, if you are not covered they will come straight out with it, so I am pleased for you. It is now down to you to arrange the quotes in good time and I suggest you send them recorded delivery or at least get a proof of postage receipt from the post office when you send them. You should also now receive confirmation of his visit by post, confirming his thoughts and actions from today, usually within a week would be considered acceptable. You are right, to keep an eye on wether this politeness was false, but do not be concerned for now and let's give him an opportunity to prove that he's genuine...!!!! Keep me posted if you need advice and until then best wishes, Richard

[Ajeeba]

No Problem. That's all sounds fairly good so far, since you have been asked to get some quotes, which suggests he is happy that you have a valid claim and also that he is happy for you to find you own contractors to undertake the work....May I suggest you arrange for 3 quotes if possible, since this is what the insurance company will expect to see wherever possible.

To be fair, if you are not covered they will come straight out with it, so I am pleased for you. It is now down to you to arrange the quotes in good time and I suggest you send them recorded delivery or at least get a proof of postage receipt from the post office when you send them. You should also now receive confirmation of his visit by post, confirming his thoughts and actions from today, usually within a week would be considered acceptable. You are right, to keep an eye on wether this politeness was false, but do not be concerned for now and let's give him an opportunity to prove that he's genuine...!!!! Keep me posted if you need advice and until then best wishes, Richard

 

Thanks Richard, one more question, i had this company come around to day called tangible builders, they said they will act on my behalf and deal with the loss adjusters directly throughout this process and will finish the job as well, i have to sign a paper to allow them to act on my behalf, is it safe to do it this way? would it affect my dealing with the loss adjusters as they require 3 quotes normally. thanks.

[Mwynci]

I can't see why any building firm would need you to sign over your right to act on your behalf? Your jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

[richard withey]

Hi Ajeeba, Just got in from work and will aim to send you a reply by the end of tonight. In the meantime, one question that needs to be answered is, how did "Tangible builders" get involved. Did the Loss Adjusters introduce them or did you find them and request a visit. My guess is the loss adjusters, but I need you to confirm this for me so I can give a proper answer. Thanks Richard. P.S. Mwynci is right to question why this would happen and I can explain a bit more as soon as it's confirmed that it is the Loss Adjuster who has contacted this company and asked them to take over the role that Ajeeba should have.

[Ajeeba]

Hi Ajeeba, Just got in from work and will aim to send you a reply by the end of tonight. In the meantime, one question that needs to be answered is, how did "Tangible builders" get involved. Did the Loss Adjusters introduce them or did you find them and request a visit. My guess is the loss adjusters, but I need you to confirm this for me so I can give a proper answer. Thanks Richard. P.S. Mwynci is right to question why this would happen and I can explain a bit more as soon as it's confirmed that it is the Loss Adjuster who has contacted this company and asked them to take over the role that Ajeeba should have.

 

it was me who had asked them to come around and give me a quote,They said that the asbestos check needs to be done, and the place needs to be dried for 4-6 weeks, and we will not be ableto live in the property.I have another builder coming around today, who said the same thing but have not asked for anything to be signed.

[Ajeeba]

I can't see why any building firm would need you to sign over your right to act on your behalf? Your jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

 

you are spot on. thanks.

[richard withey]

Hi again, thank you for confirming that. There are some basic principles and procedures during claims that protect you legally and also keep matters simple. As a general rule, I wouldn’t want to see “any party” muddy the waters by asking you to sign a disclaimer such as you describe and take on your responsibilities.

 

In summary, in the eyes of the Courts and the Insurer, you will be employing the building contractor and you should be satisfied that they are competent, experienced and suitably insured. If any surveying work is required by an Engineer for example, the exact same principle applies and you are responsible in the same way. To ensure you are satisfied, I would want to see you informed and making decisions rather than anyone else.

 

Once you are happy with the 3 contractors that have supplied a quotation, it is then down to the Loss Adjuster to confirm to the Insurer that they are indeed suitable and competitive. The only difference to any other building works that you would instigate on your property is that the costs will be met under the terms of an insurance policy as opposed to being paid for by you. Therefore, if it was me, I would continue as you are, locating reputable local contractors who can supply evidence to your satisfaction that they can do the job properly in respect of all matters.

 

One more consideration for you to ask contractors along the way regards Health and Safety CDM 2007 Regulations. If a construction site exceeds 30 working days or involves more than 500 man hours, then a construction site should be notified to the Health and Safety Executive. Obviously, not knowing the exact scope/ duration of your works, this may or may not be applicable, but is a potentially good question to ask given the aspects of the works you have mentioned. Competent contractors will be well aware of this procedure and should be confident in explaining to you why or why it does not apply in your case.

 

It should also be noted, that Loss Adjusters also have responsibilities under this legislation and you may want to bear this in mind depending on what the contractors advise in your specific case. Once again, I mention it to be thorough and also for the information of others who may view this in the future and can refer to the HSE website for guidance.

 

Well done for getting onto things so quickly, that bodes well for a speedy resolution and I hope that all parties involved work as proactively as you are…! Richard.

[Ajeeba]

Hi again, thank you for confirming that. There are some basic principles and procedures during claims that protect you legally and also keep matters simple. As a general rule, I wouldn’t want to see “any party” muddy the waters by asking you to sign a disclaimer such as you describe and take on your responsibilities.

 

In summary, in the eyes of the Courts and the Insurer, you will be employing the building contractor and you should be satisfied that they are competent, experienced and suitably insured. If any surveying work is required by an Engineer for example, the exact same principle applies and you are responsible in the same way. To ensure you are satisfied, I would want to see you informed and making decisions rather than anyone else.

 

Once you are happy with the 3 contractors that have supplied a quotation, it is then down to the Loss Adjuster to confirm to the Insurer that they are indeed suitable and competitive. The only difference to any other building works that you would instigate on your property is that the costs will be met under the terms of an insurance policy as opposed to being paid for by you. Therefore, if it was me, I would continue as you are, locating reputable local contractors who can supply evidence to your satisfaction that they can do the job properly in respect of all matters.

 

One more consideration for you to ask contractors along the way regards Health and Safety CDM 2007 Regulations. If a construction site exceeds 30 working days or involves more than 500 man hours, then a construction site should be notified to the Health and Safety Executive. Obviously, not knowing the exact scope/ duration of your works, this may or may not be applicable, but is a potentially good question to ask given the aspects of the works you have mentioned. Competent contractors will be well aware of this procedure and should be confident in explaining to you why or why it does not apply in your case.

 

It should also be noted, that Loss Adjusters also have responsibilities under this legislation and you may want to bear this in mind depending on what the contractors advise in your specific case. Once again, I mention it to be thorough and also for the information of others who may view this in the future and can refer to the HSE website for guidance.

 

Well done for getting onto things so quickly, that bodes well for a speedy resolution and I hope that all parties involved work as proactively as you are…! Richard.

Thanks Richard . I spoke with my loss adjuster yesterday and they were happy with the claim . I had few builders coming around, but I was not satisfied with them. Then I spoke to one loss assessor who will work on my behalf., I went to their website and it sounds good, unfortunately I had no choice but to sign a piece of paper which only says that I allow them to deal with the insurance company , provide them with 2,3 quotes but copy me everything. As I work in hospital and don't have enough time to stay at home for these builders to come around everyday and say different things . So I made this mistake,(sorry) but did tell them that if I was not happy, I will stop dealing with them .Please pray for me Richard . I did mention about health and safety issue but as its only bathroom and Kitchen Ceiling so it might not take that long . 10 days probably but we would need to move out of the property .

[richard withey]

Hi again, there is certainly no problem in you taking that course of action. I have only a little experience with Loss Assessors, but the feedback has been fairly encouraging from the people who have turned to them when Loss Adjusters have let them down. The authority you signed is required so that they can liaise with your Insurer and is standard practice to be asked for, so no error made there.

 

The last person who I know of who used the services of a Loss Assessor, turned to them in desperation after a large Loss Adjusting firm totally let them down during a total loss claim caused by a house fire. Their claim was dealt with extremely well by the Loss assessing firm concerned and they are now back in their house thanking their lucky stars that they did not simply put up with the Loss Adjuster their Insurer sent them.

 

I mention only one thing for you to check if you haven’t already, and that is how their fees will be met. The person I mentioned above, did state that at some point they had to pay part of the Assessors fees, but in the grand scheme of their high value claim they felt it was money worth spent. Just make sure you have it locked down from the start either way, as this can vary from claim to claim from what I understand.

 

I will of course keep my fingers crossed, but you are doing a sterling job of making yourself aware of all your options, and that is currently the best defence against the unaccountable Loss Adjusting system that is now in place. Best wishes, Richard.