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Help With Holiday Let - Claim issued ***SUCCESS***

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I am not sure I have posted in the correct forum if not then I apologise, but I really need some advice.

 

 

Back in April 2012 I booked a holiday cottage via an agent for a 1 week break in November, I paid a deposit of £150, £20 cancelation insurance and a £15 booking fee total £185.

 

 

The balance of £649 was to be paid by the 29th September, due to a change in circumstances we were unable to proceed with the holiday and so I e-mailed the letting agent, never made payment of the outstanding balance and assumed that was the end of the matter.

 

 

Then on the 21st of October I had a message on my phone chasing the outstanding balance for the rental, they claimed not to have received my e-mail of cancellation, although if that was true I can’t imagine why they waited so long to chase the payment.

 

 

To cut a long story short the letting agents are now saying that as they were unable to re-let the property I am liable for the balance of £649 and that if I do not pay up they will take me to small claims court, they have also added that in such situations the court always finds in their favour and that they will also get an additional amount of up to £500 for their costs.

 

 

I always assumed that when booking a property like this you always had up until the due date of the balance to cancel without further liability, have I been foolish in this assumption?


"THE CAG IS MY SHEPHERD I SHALL NOT PAY": :lol:

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Hello there.

 

Do you have a contract for what you signed up to please? I just wondered what it says about cancelling.

 

And did your cancellation insurance cover the reason which you cancelled for?

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi HB,

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

 

I have a pdf of the letting agent’s terms and conditions taken from their website which I could post up, however, it would identify the agents, would that be ok?

 

 

I am apparently not covered by the “compulsory” insurance plan.

 

 

Nosnibor


"THE CAG IS MY SHEPHERD I SHALL NOT PAY": :lol:

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Hi Nosnibor,

 

So the insurance was mis-sold?

 

Post up the T&C's after removing identifying details - there is a guide on here somewhere on how to do it but I can't find it at the mo.

 

G

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Hello again, nosnibor.

 

I think you're right to keep the name off your thread. Would you be able to type up the section on cancellation please? Or just scan that section?

 

I know what gerson is talking about and if you need the instructions I will try to find them. I know we sometimes suggest using Paintbox to black out unwanted details.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi HB,

 

Found this in a thread responded by DX recently (so thanks to DX)

 

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all figures and dates. {DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN]

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ["]http://docupub.com/pdfconvert/]

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

i'e Default notice dd-mm-yyyy

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

dx

 

 

 

G

  • Haha 1

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Hi,

 

Sorry not to have replied sooner have been out at work all day, thank you so much for taking the time to help me.

 

These are the terms and conditions, it is a direct cut and paste from the agent’s web site, so the poor grammar and spelling mistakes are theirs not mine:smile:

 

Terms and Conditions

1. TENANTS

Tenants must agree to take good care of their holiday home, to leave it clean and tidy and to notify and pay for any breakages. This is the main condition of acceptance of any booking.

2. ARRIVALS AND DEPARTURES

In order that properties can be thoroughly cleaned and inspected between lets holidays commence at 3.00 pm or 4.00 pm on arrival day and terminate at 10.00 am on departure day (please check final instructions)

3. BOOKING PROCEDURE

Bookings are normally Saturday to Saturday, except for some properties which are given in their details, etc. Friday to Friday. Outside the main holiday periods and during the Winter midweek or short 3 night breaks can usually be arranged.

 

A deposit of £150 per week is to be paid when the booking is made, plus £20.00 per week holiday cancellation scheme and £15 booking fee.

 

On receipt of your booking form and deposit we will send confirmation of booking and details of the balance due. The balance of the cost should reach us 6 weeks before you start your holiday and you will then receive directions and other details of your holiday property either by email or post. If you forget or loose your balance information we will call or email you as a reminder.

 

Bookings made less than 8 weeks before the starting date of the holiday should be accompanied by the full payment, the Cancellation Insurance and the Booking Fee.

 

4. BOOKING FEE

For each booking made there is a £15 booking fee (£7.50 for a short break)

5. CANCELLATION SCHEME

When paying a deposit, cancellation insurance must be taken out with us unless adequate proof of alternative insurance is supplied at time of booking.This costs £20.00 per week per property .

 

Cancellation Insurance

It is disappointing enough to have to cancel or cut short your eagerly awaited and carefully planned holiday, and even more upsetting when you are responsible for the full balance of the holiday. This is why we at Hideaways offer cancellation insurance and if you or a member of your party have to make a claim, it is dealt with quickly and efficiently. - PLEASE SEE DETAILS ON SEPARATE INFORMATION PAGE

Having your own insurance means that you will need to pay the full amount on canceling, we will then issue a cancellation invoice to you, this will enable you to make a claim through your own insurance

If you have to cancel then please let us know by letter or email as soon as possible - enclosing any documentation which may be needed ie doctors certificate.

6. PETS

Pets are permitted in some of our cottages but we ask dog owners to observe the following rules (failure to do so may result in you being asked to leave without compensation).

 

1. Dogs must be under strict control at all times while in the property.

2. Any fouling of lawns etc. must be cleared up without delay.

3. The owner must bring the dog’s bed or basket for sleeping in.

4. Dogs MUST NOT be left alone in the property at any time.

5. Dogs MUST NOT lie on beds or furnishings, and hair must be well cleared up before departing.

Please note each dog or pet will incur an extra charge of £20 per week, per pet, or £10 per pet for short breaks.

 

 

7. OCCUPANCY

Each properly is offered only on the understanding that no more than the maximum number of people as indicated in the brochure shall use it. As we offer primarily family holidays we reserve the right to refuse any booking which appears (via the booking form, or from other information received) not to meet this requirement, either by numbers in the party or composition. We also reserve the right to make any booking subject to deposit being received against inventory and cleaning, refundable within one week after the holiday less any damaged or missing items and less any other than normal.

 

8. LINEN

We supply linen for all our properties and the beds will be made up for your arrival . Towels are available as per the property description. Generally you will need to bring your own towels and tea-towels. Towel hire is available charges are £3pppw and consists of 1 bath and 1 hand towel per person. Towels are not to be removed from the property.

9. ELECTRICITY/WOOD

No additional charges will be made for electricity, gas or fuel as this is included in the cost of your holiday.

 

10. NO SMOKING

At Hideaways we have a no-smoking policy in all our properties and guests are expected to respect this as a provision of booking.

11. LIABILITY

We cannot be held liable for any loss, damage, sickness or injury howsoever caused which may be sustained during the holiday to the Tenant and any number of the party or any invited person.

12. COMPLAINTS

In the event of there being cause for complaint concerning a Property, the matter should be taken up with Hideaways at once. It is important that this is done whilst you are still at the Property so that an on-the-spot investigation can be made if necessary and remedial action taken if required. In no circumstances will compensation be considered for complaints raised after the holiday has ended when the Holidaymakers have denied the Agency or the Owners/caretakers the opportunity of investigating the complaint and endeavouring to remedy matters during the holiday. Any threatening or offensive behaviour to members of staff will not be tolerated by ?????????? and we reserve the rite to take appropriate action.

 

13. COTTAGE INFORMATION

We have compiled the information in the Brochure and on our website as accurately as possible at the time of going to press. However, facilities may be altered or withdrawn for reasons outside our control, in which case we cannot accept responsibility. We make every effort to ensure that the property details supplied to us by the Owners are accurately reproduced. Mistakes may occur from time to time. If a facility is particularly important to you, please check with us prior to your booking.

 

14. PAYMENTS

For overseas holidaymakers payments can be accepted by major Credit Cards or Debit Cards, Bankers cheque, International Money Order, or by transfer to our bank account.

 

Please note a 2% surcharge will be made on all payments made by Credit Card.

For Online bookings the system will automatically calculate credit card and booking fee charges.

 

When any payment is returned to us by the Bank, for whatever reason, a surcharge of £8 per cheque will be charged.

 

All cheques should be made payable to ???????????

 


"THE CAG IS MY SHEPHERD I SHALL NOT PAY": :lol:

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Thank you for that. It's not my area of expertise, but I'm sure people will know.

 

I'm still confused about why the cancellation insurance didn't work. What was it meant to cover please?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi HB,

 

Does this help?

 

Summary of cover -

Full payment of deposit and/or final payment in the event of cancellation of your holiday for any of the following reasons, death, accident, sickness, compulsory quarantine, jury service, or witness summons of your self or any person with whom you intend to travel, or death accident or sickness of the husband, wife, child, father, mother, father-in-law, mother-in-law, or close business associate of yourself or any person with whom you intend to travel, your own home being rendered uninhabitable by fire, explosion subsidence, malicious damage, storm or flood, or Police requesting your presence at home following burglary or attempted burglary at home or at your place of business, cancellation of leave by HM Armed Forces or HM Police.


"THE CAG IS MY SHEPHERD I SHALL NOT PAY": :lol:

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Hello again.

 

You don't have to tell us what your change in circumstances were, but would that come under any of the reasons for cancelling given for the policy, would you say?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi HB,

No my reason for cancelling would not fall within the terms of this policy.


"THE CAG IS MY SHEPHERD I SHALL NOT PAY": :lol:

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IMHO i dont think you owe them a bean.

 

if you've got proof you sent the email

 

thats good enough

 

their letter reads rather like a threat-o-gram

 

prob didn't reply in case they could not get a re booking then spoof you.

 

have you checked if it IS booked out that week on their website?

 

 

dx


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Thank you all,

 

Like DX I think they are trying it on and I am not inclined to roll over, I will sit tight and wait to see if they follow through with their threats of court action.

 

If they do so I will be back for further advice

 

Nosnibor


"THE CAG IS MY SHEPHERD I SHALL NOT PAY": :lol:

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Hello again.

 

Yes, do please keep us posted and holler if you need more advice. We also have a legal forum that this could be moved to.

 

Make sure you keep notes and time and date phone conversations and keep all correspondence. You probably knew that. :)

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Me again.

 

I've just remembered that when a friend of ours had a similar problem, she went to Trading Standards, who I have time for. It could be worth a chat, you never know.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi folks

 

I’m back for further advice as the letting agents have followed through with their threat of legal action.

 

Perhaps a mod could move this to the legal forum.

 

Many thanks

Nosnibor


"THE CAG IS MY SHEPHERD I SHALL NOT PAY": :lol:

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Hello again. I'm sorry to hear it's gone legal.

 

If you could tell us what documents you've received please and what the particulars of claim, POCs, are, without giving us personal information, your thread can be moved.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi HB

Thank you for the reply, please see below claimants POC and my defence submitted to the court

Many thanks

Nosnibor

 

 

POC

 

Image0007_zps705ef48a.jpg

Image0006_zpse7362e29.jpg

 

My defence as submitted

 

Image0005_zps62f6e093.jpg


"THE CAG IS MY SHEPHERD I SHALL NOT PAY": :lol:

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Hello again.

 

I can see you've worked hard on this. I'm going to ask if someone from the site team can look in on this and possibly move it to the legal forum. If this happens, there will be a redirect for you.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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As a claim has been issued against you, I have moved you to Legal Issues.


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Hi,

 

You have done a good job with the defence so I am not sure there is much we can do for now apart from wish you good luck at the hearing.

 

When you book something you are normally liable to pay for it. You cannot assume you have a right to cancel unless this is specifically stated in the T&Cs. If you had a right to cancel there would be no need for cancellation insurance. However, it sounds like you have a good argument they failed to mitigate their loss. It sounds like you have retained a copy of the email and if they did not read the email and failed to relet the property as a result that is their fault.

 

If it was me I would perhaps offer them £200 to settle the claim but up to you.

 

One point not covered in either the POC or the defence is this "admin fee" they are asking for. In theory you can claim for admin costs flowing from a breach of contract, and sometimes these can be granted without proof of loss (for example, in Employment Tribunals it is common for employees to be awarded £40 for the cost of stamps, sending out CV, bus tickets and so on following unfair dismissal). These do have to be actual losses, so they cannot claim for advertising the property on their website or for staff costs as these were paid for anyway. I would be objecting to the admin cost at the hearing.

Edited by steampowered

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Hi Steampowered

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my thread your input is much appreciated

 

Firstly I am glad you think the claimant’s failure to mitigate their loss is in my favour, however, this was only ever intended as a second line of defence.

 

My main argument was based around my belief that this was initially a “provisional” booking (interestingly the claimant’s use that very term in their POC) :|

 

The claimant’s terms and conditions stated that the balance was to be paid 6 weeks prior to the holiday and I genuinely believed that if I cancelled prior to this date although I would quite naturally forfeit the deposit I would not be liable for the remaining balance.

 

I have sought the opion of numerous people and it appears that many share my view and the main plank of my defence is that if I was entering into a contract without any right of cancelation then this should have been made absolutely clear in the claimant’s terms and conditions.

 

If your opinion is correct and the fact that no cancelation rights are stated therefore none exist, this makes me feel my position is very much weaker and I am now rather worried.


"THE CAG IS MY SHEPHERD I SHALL NOT PAY": :lol:

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I have sought the opion of numerous people and it appears that many share my view and the main plank of my defence is that if I was entering into a contract without any right of cancelation then this should have been made absolutely clear in the claimant’s terms and conditions.

 

If your opinion is correct and the fact that no cancelation rights are stated therefore none exist, this makes me feel my position is very much weaker and I am now rather worried.

 

I don't think anyone can say for sure whether you were correct to think that you had a right to cancel. Also noone can say for sure whether the judge will agree the Claimant failed to mitigate his loss and if so how much this will be taken into account. Please try not to worry, unfortunately you can never be sure about how court hearings will go, all you can really do is prepare to clearly explain your arguments to the judge at the hearing and hope he agrees with you. Good luck.


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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Is the LA providing the consideration or is it engaged only to provide for a contract between you and the property owner?

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