MBNA PPI Award “Interpretative” Calculations?

[angry cat]

From MBNA press release 5th June 2014

Not all credit card fees and charges are the same between issuers and there are aspects of MBNA’s fees and charges and the way they are charged (or not charged) which are highly relevant to whether MBNA might be liable to refund them. For example, our system operates so that the cost of PPI is only applied after the customer has gone over limit and after the over limit fee has been applied. As such, PPI could never cause our customers to be over limit or cause the fee to be applied.”

MNBA response to my enquiry to why over limit fee has been refunded 14th January 2016

“Without PPI being charged in February 2005, the non-PPI balance up to the over limit fee would have remained below the credit limit, therefore subtracting the over limit fee from the non-PPI balance also meant that when PPI was applied at statement end for March 2005, that is what took the balance over the credit limit and therefore had over limit been charged at that point it would have been caused by PPI”

Can I ask MBNA to retract there press release?

 

 

Utter nonsense MBNA!

As in my case you fined me 25 times over 23 months; all the fines were the result of the useless PPI premiums.

[GRUMPY OLD GIT]

Quite so, Miaspa 2010!

Clearly MH did not even re-review my case, as promised, as it only took him 6 working days to fire off his 'my position remains the same' fob off routine email. And then firing off the following letter by snail mail, which has been delivered today. But dated Friday 09 October 2015; the same date as the email.

 

"Dear Grumpy,

 

An ombudsman will review your complaint.

 

Because you did not agree, and ombudsman will review your complaint and make a final decision. If the ombudsman's conclusions are different to mine, they will explain why and let you reply before they give you their decision.

 

We should already have the information the ombudsman needs to reach a decision. But if we need anything more from you, we will let you know.

 

If you have any further points or information you want the ombudsman to consider, please send these to me by 30 October 2015 blah, blah, blah.

 

MH - adjudicator."

 

MH, actually promised to send a more detailed response but now insists that despite my further submissions, he will not change his opinion. Now that to my mind that is closing his ears/eyes to any further argument. And as such is not in keeping with his remit as an FOS adjudicator, which must surely demand that he listens to all arguments and make his judgement after having done so - this is not fair and reasonable impartiality that the FOS professes to exercise...

 

An utter disgrace!

 

I have today (27/01/16) received another holding letter; foot dragging...

 

"Dear Grumpy,

 

 

I’m writing to update you on your complaint against MBNA.

 

Your case is currently waiting to be allocated to an ombudsman to review for a final decision.

 

The points you’ve raised will be considered by an ombudsman before they make his/her final decision.

 

I’m sorry for the length of time it’s taking to resolve your complaint and I appreciate your patience.

 

I’ll continue to keep you updated about your complaint, until it is passed to an ombudsman, but If you have any further queries please get in touch with me.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

...adjudicator (redress)

Financial Ombudsman Service

Edited January 27, 2016 by GRUMPY OLD GIT
addendum

[angry cat]

Think I will just throw Plevin v Paragon case into the MBNA cauldron for good measure:

 

http://blog.huntswood.com/2015/11/02/ppi-and-the-plevin-paradox-2/

[Miaspa 2010]

My latest response!

Thank you for your email.

The ombudsman is still reviewing everything and coming to her decision. As before, unfortunately I don’t know how long it will take the ombudsman to come to her decision.

But as soon as we’ve got an update for you, we’ll let you know.

[angry cat]

My latest response!

Thank you for your email.

The ombudsman is still reviewing everything and coming to her decision. As before, unfortunately I don’t know how long it will take the ombudsman to come to her decision.

But as soon as we’ve got an update for you, we’ll let you know.

 

Well Miaspa et al,

we are all still waiting;

what's taking so long?!

[Miaspa 2010]

Well Miaspa et al,

we are all still waiting;

what's taking so long?!

 

 

Nothing to report as yet, I've diarised another email for an update on the 16th March. Just a monthly reminder that I still waiting.

[Miaspa 2010]

Still the same reply

 

 

Thank you for your email.

 

The ombudsman is still reviewing everything and coming to her decision. As before, unfortunately I don’t know how long it will take the ombudsman to come to her decision.

 

But as soon as we’ve got an update for you, we’ll let you know.

[AfterMidnight]

All kind of similar here really ...

 

 

I"’m sorry it’s been some time since you last heard from us. Your complaint is still waiting to be reviewed by an ombudsman. I appreciate that you’ve already been given this update before, but I wanted to reassure you that we haven’t forgotten about your complaint and that it’s in the right place. Thank you for your patience."

I know that it is easy to bash and complain when you have a single issue, and can't understand why you are not being taken seriously by a very busy organisation with a wide-remit.

However ... it does make all the "what a good job we are doing" stuff you see from FOS, in terms of PR, difficult to fathom - in terms of there being any form of credible self-aware grip on reality there. Anyone know any other organisation in the universe that might think they can get credibly away with updating people with a message of, after three years, ... that they are still sort of thinking about who might be available to, perhaps, at some future point, actually even get round to opening your complaint envelope beyond a cursory glance ... but don't worry all in hand?

If Natalie had a problem with, say, her home having been fitted with a faulty boiler, was ignored by supplier, complained accordingly to the governing ombudsman and was told years later while shivering in the winter ... on 10th inquiry ... that they might expect to start to look into it at some point and open a case file ... would that seem reasonable?

While on my high horse: allocating a competent officer to spend 10 days to check out what is effectively a group-complaint issue ... would seem an awful lot more efficient than having every Adjudicator, and/or Ombudsman, on each case ... start from blissful-ignorance scratch. It takes days to understand the MBNA-calculation issue properly. It takes hours to even remotely understand what the problem might be. Maybe no surprise it is taking years upon years.

AMN

[angry cat]

Still the same reply

 

 

Thank you for your email.

 

The ombudsman is still reviewing everything and coming to her decision. As before, unfortunately I don’t know how long it will take the ombudsman to come to her decision.

 

But as soon as we’ve got an update for you, we’ll let you know.

 

All eyes on your ombudsman maispa!

Could he/she be looking at all 90 cases?

we are all waiting to hear...

Do they really intend on picking us off one by one but do not expect us all to tell each other the outcome(s)?

[Miaspa 2010]

All eyes on your ombudsman maispa!

Could he/she be looking at all 90 cases?

we are all waiting to hear...

Do they really intend on picking us off one by one but do not expect us all to tell each other the outcome(s)?

 

 

 

You know how it is, the dog wakes you at 3.30am wanting to go outside. You get back into bed, middle child is coughing and you can't get back to sleep. So you lie in bed thinking. Or may be that's just me!!!

 

 

Anyway I had a thought and emailed this to my adjudicator this morning.

 

 

I don’t know if it’s too late to submit any other points to the Ombudsman.

The point I wish to raise relates to penalty charges, your stand was that the charges have to be looked at only in the month they occurred.

My positions was the accumulated balance needs to be looked in regard to penalties, a difference of opinion.

I had a thought last night in regard to this, and using MBNA’s offer of May 2014, I believe I can show how MBNA’s stance is unfair on the consumer and how the surplus redress method contributes to this.

In December 2006, the DD was returned. ( I have already expressed my concerns on this in earlier emails).

In the offer supplied my MBNA (May 2014), they restated the December payment as £67.90. As the payment was not made MBNA then charged late payment fees from December 2006 to December 2008.

At this point per MBNA’s offer the account was £67.90 in arrears.

Looking at the redress calculation from MBNA (May 2014) in Jan 07 £27.32 was moved to the surplus redress pot. If this balance was set against the card the arrears would have been reduced to £40.58.

Again in Feb 07 27.85 was moved to the surplus pot, again if this balance was offset against the card the arrears would have been reduced to £13.26. In March 2007 £28.40 was moved to the surplus pot.

If the 27.80 surplus in March was set against the card the arrears would no longer stand. As a consequence the £12 monthly penalties raised from April 07 to December 2008 are no longer justified.

I know we have a revised offer in October 2015, and this shows the missing payment in December 2006 as £66.92, the payments are all set against the card after this point. As we already have a knowledge of what the rough minimum payments would have been from the May 2014 calculation, the arrears would still be cleared by March 2007. Why has no adjustment been made for these penalty charges?

I have only used MBNA’s figures and it can be clearly be shown that penalty charges incurred should be revised, together with MBNA confirmation on why they refunded the charge incurred in March 2005. It questions why other penalty charges have not been refunded.

Your Thoughts.

[angry cat]

I bet that you are still waiting, as are the rest of us?!

[Miaspa 2010]

Another month has passed and not heard a been other than my last email has been added to my file.

 

 

16th is tomorrow so will be sending my monthly email for an update on Monday.

 

 

Ombudsman has had the file according to Caroline Wayman since 17th December 2015. Either a thorough review is taking place or its being sweep under the carpet.

 

 

Looking at recent decisions, I was amazed a complaint about a banking transaction in June 2015, has managed to through the FOS queue, been reviewed by an adjudicator passed to an Ombudsman and a final decision made in January 2016.

 

 

That's 7 months, my case has been with the FOS for four years.

[angry cat]

Another month has passed and not heard a been other than my last email has been added to my file.

 

 

16th is tomorrow so will be sending my monthly email for an update on Monday.

 

 

Ombudsman has had the file according to Caroline Wayman since 17th December 2015. Either a thorough review is taking place or its being sweep under the carpet.

 

 

Looking at recent decisions, I was amazed a complaint about a banking transaction in June 2015, has managed to through the FOS queue, been reviewed by an adjudicator passed to an Ombudsman and a final decision made in January 2016.

 

 

That's 7 months, my case has been with the FOS for four years.

 

Interesting, as I had a complaint lodged about Lloyds with FOS;

it was looked at by an adjudicator and after a short tussle, same was upheld. Of course, FOS attempted to turn it down but I had wisely kept all my paperwork and back up from the ICO - Lloyds had to compensate me plus they sent me a bouquet of lilies which I took to a historic chapel (RC) in order that God would hopefully make them repent for their sins; Yes, Antonio!

 

If FOS are anything like the ICO, they put complaints on the back shelf but diarised for contact at various stages - all automated, no manual intervention. They think that we are all idiots - no doubt that have had instructions from above: FSA and number 11.

 

In short, we are all in for a long wait or, perhaps we may die waiting; they hope.

[Miaspa 2010]

 

In short, we are all in for a long wait or, perhaps we may die waiting; they hope.

 

 

Appears that way my adjudicator won't reply now..........what chance of an ombudsman.

 

 

All I asked was for an update, maybe asking every month for the past 2 years has finally upset him.

[Miaspa 2010]

I haven't upset my adjudicator he was busy!!

 

 

Unfortunately I don’t have any further update for you. The ombudsman is carefully looking into everything you and MBNA have sent us to come to a fair decision.

We’ll let you know as soon as the ombudsman has reached a decision.

[GRUMPY OLD GIT]

Well I am still waiting too.

It has been such an extraordinary long time since my complaint went to my ombudsman:-x

I doubt very much as to whether any human is looking at my case. But every three months I receive a template letter; no manual intervention, which says:

 

"...an ombudsman will review your complaint and the points you've made before making a final decision;

it can take some time for a case to be reviewed by an ombudsman but I'll continue to keep you updated about your complaint every three months."

 

Answers on a postcard, please. If you all think that this, probably outsourced, FOS ombudsman will agree with my adjudicators opinion and certainly will not investigate the additional points/information that I have raised?!

[Old Cogger]

sounds familiar

[stevebmth]

Hello Everyone,

 

I'm assisting my mother start an MBNA claim, and checking how the calculation is done exactly.

 

I appreciate there's issues with penalties and interest on them, but ignore that for now.

 

The card dates from early 90's as far as she can remember, and pretty much always carried a very high balance,

with PPI payments hitting over £70 a month,

though currently at around the £35 level on an £8k balance.

 

 

Am I right in thinking this is going to be a large payout if successful,

along the lines of all payments,

plus card interest rate,

plus 8% statutory interest compounded over the term

since each payment was made roughly speaking?

[dx100uk]

you cant compound the simple 8% interest

you only get that IF the card goes into credit.

.

the ideal sheet to use if you have ALL the statements in the FOSrunning.

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?330996-Latest-Spreadsheets-PPI-Claims-and-Charges-Claims-Dec-2011

[stevebmth]

you cant compound the simple 8% interest

you only get that IF the card goes into credit.

.

the ideal sheet to use if you have ALL the statements in the FOSrunning.

 

 

Thank you, I don't have all the statements, do you think it's wroth doing a SAR before sending the questionnaire, or just send both at roughly the same time? The hard thing is knowing when the card was taken out, she's not sure, she know it's at least 20 years, thinks it could be up to 30 years (when did MBNA start offering cards in the UK?).

[dx100uk]

Sar then

[Miaspa 2010]

sounds familiar

 

 

This decision relates to a matter from January 2016, why are we waiting for so long?

http://www.ombudsman-decisions.org.uk/viewPDF.aspx?FileID=112097

 

 

In reference to the above poster SAR first get all your facts right from the start!!

[Miaspa 2010]

Oh a recent decision relating to MBNA re penalty charges and calculations.

 

 

http://www.ombudsman-decisions.org.uk/viewPDF.aspx?FileID=111833

 

 

PPI running from 2000 to 2005 4k in PPI and 23K refunded including interest.

[angry cat]

Thank you, I don't have all the statements, do you think it's wroth doing a SAR before sending the questionnaire, or just send both at roughly the same time? The hard thing is knowing when the card was taken out, she's not sure, she know it's at least 20 years, thinks it could be up to 30 years (when did MBNA start offering cards in the UK?).

 

You need to make a Section 7 CCA request as well as making a DSIR (SAR) to MBNA.

[Miaspa 2010]

Not looking good another decision on MBNA.

 

 

http://www.ombudsman-decisions.org.uk/viewPDF.aspx?FileID=112186