council tax - Visit today with a "Warrant of Execution" - will force entry if i dont pay tomorrow?

[Tomo1969]

Several weeks ago I received a visit from a man form Rossendales explaining that we had an oustanding Council Tax bill

that had been passed on to them and they had a Magistrates Order to recoup the money.

 

I agreed to send an income and expenditure breakdown and come to an agreement over paying it in installments.

 

I filled this in and sent it back.

 

Today a man appeared on my doorstep with a piece of paper explaining that I hadnt kept to the deal, and he was here with the van.

 

He told me I have to pay over 1200 pounds or he will be back with the van and the police.

 

I explained that its not possible, and said that I could get 300 tomorrow, and he said,

that he'll take that and give me to the end of the month to come up with the rest or it will be van/boys in blue/bye bye furniture/car.

 

The piece of paper is form Rossendales and not the court.

 

I explained that I'd sent the paperwork back, and phoned the office and was told its not their fault,

and that i should have either sent it recorded delivery, or phoned to make sure it got there.

 

I asked if I have any recourse to appeal, and was told that the only thing I can do to avoid them coming back

and forcing entry is to pay the full amount by the end of this month.

 

He said he was "being nice" by doing this for me.

 

I was quite stressed out at the time, and didnt want to get into a confrontation that might make him change his mind and take the stuff there and then,

so I kind of capitulated and said I'd have the 300 tomorrow and see what I could do about the rest.

 

Is there ANYTHING I can do to get them to take the installment plan?

 

Their paperwork says:

"No further arrangements are acceptable and payment is now required in full by CLEAR FUNDS ONLY."

 

I was helped out over a mortgage issue by some of the guys here a few years ago, and hope someone can point me the right way...

[Tomo1969]

P.S...

At no time have either the original visitor or the guy today actually been in the house.

[brassnecked]

Hi Tomo and welcome,

 

first thing is you don't have to let the bailiff in,

he cannot get the police to arrest you or break in,

 

If you have a car keep it a good ten minute walk away, keep him out and he is relatively powerless.

 

is English a second language?

 

i ask this as you may be potentially vulnerable if English is not your first language.

 

You could pay the council direct using te online system, and you need to ask the council

 

How many liability Orders they have for you

What years do they apply to

When were they obtained

How much on each one

When were they passed to the bailiffs for enforcement

 

I'll bet that what the bailiffs are asking for is completely different and far higher than what you actually owe. Remember Bailiffs LIE.

 

I'm sure others will be along with more advice soon.

[TB Law]

You make a written formal complaint to the council.

 

You can also make a complaint against the bailiff for saying he will turn up with the police.

[Tomo1969]

English is my first language,

and normally I'm fairly eloquent and good at spotting technicalities in parts of speech that are meant to make you think that stuff is more than it actually is.

 

Likewise I'm normally fairly adept at dealing with aggressive people,

but when he said that he was here to take stuff,

and would be back with the police if I didn't cough up,

I kind of faltered a bit in my bravado, and decided to pursue the path of least resistance as my 4 yr old was at home from nursery with the sniffles,

 

and I wasn't going to subject him to such an encounter.

[Tomo1969]

He's due back tomorrow for the 300 quid...

Any advice on how I approach that meeting?

[TB Law]

Bailiffs cannot take anything which he has not made a levy on.

 

He was being naughty by saying he will get the police to turn up and making a forced entry.

 

The law is very specific on when a bailiff can force entry and from your post, I see no reason how he is entitled to.

 

I dont know anything about you but others here might be able to find a reason the council can withdraw with enforcement action and accept a repayment plan.

 

From your post so far, you can only make a formal complaint to the council for sneding bailiffs after you had returned a written repayment plan.

 

For the £300 tomorrow, keep your door locked shut and tell the bailiff to contact the council.

 

He probably wont be turning up anyway, they only say they will to intimidate you and get you to borrow the money to stop him coming "with a van".

 

Bailiffs can only use a van for transporting goods he has made a levy over and since there is no levy, this van talk is all nonsense.

[Tomo1969]

Rossendales say they never got it, and I would imagine that they hear an "I sent it back" variation every other phone call, and appreciate that they probably don't believe me.

 

Understanding that,

 

however, still doesn't make make me feel any better about being one of the ones who genuinely DID send it back though...

 

Their argument was "prove it".

[TB Law]

If it was sent to the bailiff company then, of-course they wont have received it!

 

If they say "prove it" then you can do this by quoting a little-known piece of law the courts use when deciding whether a document sent through the post has been delivered. It is seciton 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 and if you say you posted it then you have satisfied the burden of proof of delivery.

 

Source: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30

 

If the bailiff refuses to accept this then start the formal complaints procedure with the council because the bailiff is not entitled to remove your right to avail yourself to an Act of Parliament.

[dx100uk]

Question can he break into my house while im out if no one is in, he has never been in my house before

---End Quote---

To be able to force entry to your home he needs the following:

1 - he must have gained previous peaceful entry and made a valid levy on goods.

2 - next time he calls you must have denied him entry following a default on a payment due.

3 - he must get the approval of the Council to apply for a forced entry, and they MUST agree FIRST

4 - he must apply to the Magistrates Court for an Order allowing him to force entry - very rarely given

5 - he must write to you giving you a date and time of when he is coming

6 - if you are then not in he may make a forced entry

thus 99.9% of the time - So you are a long, long way from this happening - not that it will, and as you

have paid up to date minus his fees then no application to force entry will succeed.

Any hassles with the Bailiff do no disappear overnight and it does take a long time to resolve. As said

previously the Council cannot wash their hands of this and if they insist they can do nothing then they

leave themselves wide open. As you no longer reside within the same authority then you must complain

at the highest level ie the CEO. It would do no harm to also inform the Leader of the Council and his

opposite number of what is going on also. As for the Bailiff themselves you must also challenge the

fees they are trying to claim. As you paid after the levy was made you may indeed be liable for some

fees but definitely not what they are claiming.

PT

 

copied from PT posts

 

dx

[brassnecked]

Exactly as TB Law has said, you can tell them that according to the Interpretation Act, you can consider it delivered after 2 days if sent first class. Within the Formal Complaint, indicate that you will be paying the council directly, and pay them the £300, as due to their bailiffs criminal misrepresentation of his power you cannot trust Rossendales to deal fairly with you, and as no law compels you to deal with a bailiff you will pay the council directly and regularly.

[brassnecked]

Hallow, OP says bailiff hasn't been in or levied, wonder if they have listed a random motor. Tomo, did they leave any paperwork listing a car or other goods they claim to have seized?

[Ell-enn]

You should take your letter of complaint by hand to the council offices - take two copies and get them to sign your copy as proof they have received it - if you can't do that then send it by special next day delivery. Heal the letter "FORMAL COMPLAINT" While you have a formal complaint lodged they should stop all bailiff action on the account until your complaint is investigated. Make sure you state in the letter that you complied with the bailiff company's request to send back the form and that the bailiff who visited you misrepresented his powers.

 

If you need help with the letter I can let you have a draft tomorrow

[Tomo1969]

They've said nothing about Levying anything.

There were two cars on the drive today, one is a battered old Ford Explorer that has been knackered for over a year and has been a coin toss from being scrapped for some time now, but I maintain a very optimistic view that one day I'll get round to putting the new wheel hub on that it needs... (TBH it would be a blessing if someone DID come and remove it and not charge me for it...) the other was the courtesy car that my wife has while her company car is getting a door resprayed.

[Tomo1969]

Ell-enn, that would be lovely.

Shall I PM you with my email address?

[Ell-enn]

I can affix the letter to this thread so no need for your email address will post on here in the morning - will you be able to be online then?

[Tomo1969]

P.S.

You guys are stunning!

 

I had no idea about that piece of legislation.

[Tomo1969]

Yes, I'll be at home all day tomorrow.

 

Thank you all so much!

[tomtubby]

In the morning you need to ensure that you call the council to obtain confirmation of the amount of the Liability Order. As a levy has not been made on any goods, then the MAXIMUM fees that can be charged are £42.50.

 

You need to be very careful tomorrow if the bailiff attends as he will very likely try to "offer you a repayment proposal". This will be on the basis that you allow him into your home to "complete some paperwork" or to "check what goods you have". Given your financial circumstances this would be a very serious mistake indeed and you should NOT allow the bailiff into your home.

[Tomo1969]

Thanks Tomtubby, but I'm going to phone him and let him know that I'm taking it back to the council, along with the letters citing his behaviour.

 

It turned out late last night that someone overheard him mention bringing the police.

I got a very late knock on the door from a guy I know who had been in the beer garden of the pub next door in the afternoon when Mr Rossendales made his threat. This chap had been umming and ahhing about coming and telling me that the guy wasn't allowed to do it, and decided to do so after a fairly substantial skinfull.

I asked if he'd make a statement for me, and is VERY reluctant to do so, his history with law enforcement being somewhat less than "on the side of the angels" if you get my drift... he doesn't want to get involved, but his visit was to reassure me that the bailiff had been an; "out of ****ing order, ****ing bully!" as he put it.

[hallowitch]

if your going to phone the bailiff record the call

[brassnecked]

Be aware that if any motors are on the drive the bailiff will list and seize them anyway, but as one is basically SORN and unroadworthy, and the other a courtesy car, the levy will be challengeable, as goods are exempt/too low in value.

 

I think that if the cars were on the drive when bailiff called, he already has listed them and will contend he has a levy when you send the Acme letter asking for a list of fees, which you may need to send to confirm where you are going to sort this,

From:

My Name

My Address

To:

Acme bailiff Co

bailiff House

Ref: Account No: 123456

Dear Sir

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a Breakdown of the charges.

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

I require this information within 14 days.

Yours faithfully

 

 

Above all don't worry, you havealready had some great advice, and will be on track to sorting Mr Dossers .

[tomtubby]

There is no need to get statements from friends etc. Pay attention to what I have said in my post last night. Refuse entry and ensure that your do not allow the bailiff into the property. If there has been a levy, then there is a legal requirement for a Notice of Seizure to have been left.

 

You cannot in any way at all say to a bailiff that you are "taking the account back to the council". The bailiff has a liability order and it is for HIM and not YOU to take the debt back to the council.

[brassnecked]

Exactly deny him entry, if he has levied a motor, challenge the levy,

[Tomo1969]

He's on his way round to sort it out.

He said that he "brings the police, because people kick off" and wouldn't engage in a discussion on the phone.

I will record the conversation openly, and report back...