effectively fining staff for being off sick

[caring guy]

Our CC (County Council) where i work now has a policy where if you are off sick you do not get paid for the first two days.

 

One of our staff arrived for work last week but the manager told this member of staff she did not think she was fit for work and told her she was sending her home (she had flu i think).

 

If a member of staff has leave they can take a day's leave and still be paid.

 

This member of staff has taken all of her leave so now she will be financially penalised as when she is paid she will lose one day's money.

 

Effectively, she's being fined for being ill.

 

Any advice would be well received.

[becky2585]

SSP only kicks in on day 4, so that's actually more generous than some employers!

 

What does the contract/sickness absence policy state? If there's an absolute right to sick pay (which is rare) then there's a valid grievance. If its discretionary, it can only be challenged on discrimination grounds.

[caring guy]

The policy says that yo do not get paid for day 1 and day 2 off sick. It also says you can take leave (if you have it) in order to get paid.

 

The policy states the management have a right to send you home and you will not be paid (the same as not coming in).

 

Your right to sick pay starts on Day 3.

 

If you have no holiday left then you would lose 2 days money if you were off for 2 days or more.

 

Have i understood your question properly?

[smithy70]

If that is the policy then I am afraid that they are withing their rights. Many companies do not pay people for days off sick and they only start getting SSP on day4 .

I used to work for a large multinational and different divisions had different policies. The one I was in was three days no pay then full pay. They then changed it to paid sick and the sickness rate rocketed.

[LaughingGirl]

As far as I'm aware, this is pretty standard protocol - every company i've ever worked for has done the same but usually the fist three days unpaid.

[altobelli]

Not great employment practice, but not illegal I'm afraid if applied consistently.

 

How do management judge whether to send someone home if that person believes they're fit for work? Are they qualified doctors/nurses?

[Conniff]

Telling them you can take a days holiday instead of going sick is in fact taking away your holiday entitlement. Another Council rip-off.

[LaughingGirl]

Not great employment practice, but not illegal I'm afraid if applied consistently.

 

How do management judge whether to send someone home if that person believes they're fit for work? Are they qualified doctors/nurses?

 

Got to be honest, I've done it myself as a manager/supervisor in the past. The last place I worked had a policy that if the employee was sent home after 11am, they wouldn't lose their days pay, so I always tried to hang on if I could. Sometimes, it's just obvious that someone shouldn't be there and need to take the day off to dose themselves up and get better. Also, in my experience staff who insist on coming in when clearly unwell almost always eventually end up on long term sick when their body just stops co-operating.

 

Telling them you can take a days holiday instead of going sick is in fact taking away your holiday entitlement. Another Council rip-off.

 

I missed that bit - that's definitely a bit naughty.

[altobelli]

LaughingGirl, I think you have a point. Problem is if the company doesn't provide sick pay there's a massive incentive for an employee to come in when they're sick (which is probably partly the employer's intention in withholding sick pay) and a lot of managers will take the chance of letting the employee work so that the work gets done. You could also have situations where an employee feels strongly that they're fit to work and is sent home, then goes and sees a doctor who declares them fit to work. The company would then have a job not allowing the employee to work.

[LaughingGirl]

I think the major reason that my former employer introduced it was to stop the 'can't be bothered today' brigade. I definitely noticed a difference in a small cell of employees who routinely missed lots of single days through things like headaches over the course of a year.

 

It definitely has it's problems, though - stomach bugs could be a nightmare because after the D&V stopped they were supposed to leave 48 hours before returning. I had half a department that would come in while they were still infectious because they didn't want to lose their pay (and subsequently give it to everyone else!), and half a department who thought that since they weren't getting paid for the first three days they might as well take the whole week and stay at home for a couple of days on full pay!