Need help filling out esa50 for mentally ill sister by 20 nov

[badback2]

I will attempt to be as brief as possible. I am sure a number of my queries have been answered previously, but if somebody could kindly guide me to other links etc it would be greatly appreciated. I will happily post (albeit with peronal info deleted) the final version of my/our submission once completed.

 

 

In a nutshell my sister is based in the South and has been on IB since 2007 and is now to be transferred to ESA, if she passes tests etc. She is clinically depressed and on bad days stays at home and in bed all day. She is on medication , but because she does not threaten to commit suicide or is addicted to drugs his local mental health service have essentially abandoned hier My folks get her shoppiing and take her meals. Other than that she is a virtual recluse and does not bother washing or dressing. She (and I) have read posts on here and other sites re ATOS etc and my sis has convinced herself just to give in as she is certain that she will score zero points and will not be taken seriously. Further as she has substantial savings ,she's on contribution based IB and thus even if she is transferred she will only obtained a max of 12 months entitlement.

 

I want to help and can fill out her ESA50 and get an advocate to attend an ATOS medical.

 

I have following queries :

 

1) I get the impression that i will have to overstate or even overly emphasise her disability. I intend to simply focus on her worst/ bad days, as ref to a good day may be misinterpreted. Does that sound sensible or fraudulent !?

 

2) The two main sections which apply to her on the ESA50 are Sn 13 and 17. Re Sn 13 at worst she does nothing all day, and has even been known to stay in bed all day. She does grab a bit of food , takes some, if not all, her medication , and makes a cup of tea. Would that be considered adequate to conduct 2 personal actions as per Sn13 decriptors? Re Sn 17 as a recluse she does not come into contact with other people regularly , but when she does she can behave in a disinhibited manner. For example in past 2-3 years she was arrested for a public order offence , for which she has medical reports confirming disinhibited behaviour ; she went to solicitor's premise and threw all her files out of the window....and was thrown out of a former golf club ( she doesn't play anymore) for violence towards staff. She also left hierlast job due to her mental disorder and disinhibited behaviour. If described adequately could this warrant a score of 15 points alone?

 

Does she need to obtain another medical report from her GP - problem here is that she never really opens up to scale of her problem to GP, who is more concerned about physical problems....hypertension and insulin diabetes. Will it be a disaster if she does not obtain a detailed report from her GP, which will doubtless be caveated anyhow. I sense i can better describe her ailments as per ESA50 descriptors.

 

How long is typical timeframe between receipt of ESA50 and date of ATOS medical ? Is this timeframe extended if a request is made on ESA50 for assessment to be taped ?

 

I have seen numerous guidance docs on how to fill out Part2 of the ESA50. Anybody know which is most apt for clinical depression suffererers. There's a forum who charge 9.95 pounds to download ESA guide packs - are they really any better than pro bono

advice avialble on internet and via this most helpful forum ?

 

I will attempt to be as brief as possible. I am sure a number of my queries have been answered previously, but if somebody could kindly guide me to other links etc it would be greatly appreciated. I will happily post (albeit with peronal info deleted) the final version of my/our submission once completed.

 

In a nutshell my sister is based in the South and has been on IB since 2007 and is now to be transferred to ESA, if she passes tests etc. She is clinically depressed and on bad days stays at home and in bed all day. She is on medication , but because she does not threaten to commit suicide or is addicted to drugs his local mental health service have essentially abandoned hier My folks get her shoppiing and take her meals. Other than that she is a virtual recluse and does not bother washing or dressing. She (and I) have read posts on here and other sites re ATOS etc and my sis has convinced herself just to give in as she is certain that she will score zero points and will not be taken seriously. Further as she has substantial savings ,she's on contribution based IB and thus even if she is transferred she will only obtained a max of 12 months entitlement.

 

I want to help and can fill out her ESA50 and get an advocate to attend an ATOS medical.

 

I have following queries :

 

1) I get the impression that i will have to overstate or even overly emphasise her disability. I intend to simply focus on her worst/ bad days, as ref to a good day may be misinterpreted. Does that sound sensible or fraudulent !?

 

2) The two main sections which apply to her on the ESA50 are Sn 13 and 17. Re Sn 13 at worst she does nothing all day, and has even been known to stay in bed all day. She does grab a bit of food , takes some, if not all, her medication , and makes a cup of tea. Would that be considered adequate to conduct 2 personal actions as per Sn13 decriptors? Re Sn 17 as a recluse she does not come into contact with other people regularly , but when she does she can behave in a disinhibited manner. For example in past 2-3 years she was arrested for a public order offence , for which she has medical reports confirming disinhibited behaviour ; she went to solicitor's premise and threw all her files out of the window....and was thrown out of a former golf club ( she doesn't play anymore) for violence towards staff. She also left hierlast job due to her mental disorder and disinhibited behaviour. If described adequately could this warrant a score of 15 points alone?

 

Does she need to obtain another medical report from her GP - problem here is that she never really opens up to scale of her problem to GP, who is more concerned about physical problems....hypertension and insulin diabetes. Will it be a disaster if she does not obtain a detailed report from her GP, which will doubtless be caveated anyhow. I sense i can better describe her ailments as per ESA50 descriptors.

 

How long is typical timeframe between receipt of ESA50 and date of ATOS medical ? Is this timeframe extended if a request is made on ESA50 for assessment to be taped ?

 

I have seen numerous guidance docs on how to fill out Part2 of the ESA50. Anybody know which is most apt for clinical depression suffererers. There's a forum who charge 9.95 pounds to download ESA guide packs - are they really any better than pro bono

advice avialble on internet and via this most helpful forum ?

 

Finally, I refer to SN10 - physical symptoms . My sister occasionally has a loss of consciousness due to either hypoglycaemia and /or hypotension (eg a low blood pressure when she gets off the sofa). This may well score high points, but she is paranoid that ATOS/ DWP will reveal such info to the DVLA and this may result in her driving licence being revoked.

 

Also do any members have examples of what specific questions were asked by an ATOS assessor at a medical , specifically in respect of Sn 13 and 17 and/or Part 2 of the ESA50 in particular.

 

Any feedback on above would be greatly welcomed.

[Nystagmite]

1) I get the impression that i will have to overstate or even overly emphasise her disability. I intend to simply focus on her worst/ bad days, as ref to a good day may be misinterpreted. Does that sound sensible or fraudulent !?

 

This is fraudulent. But you are allowed to write how bad days are for your sister. But don't fill in the form just on bad days.

 

How long is typical timeframe between receipt of ESA50 and date of ATOS medical ?

 

There's no definitive answer. I'm 3 months and waiting.

 

Is there nothing on Mind about how to fill the form in?

[coledog]

Have a look at this attachment

 

And these are the descriptors you need to meet

 

http://www.dls.org.uk/advice/factsheet/welfare_benefits/employment%20support%20allowance/Employment%20Support%20Allowance%20-After%2028th%20March%202011.pdf

 

Get as much evidence as the can about the way that the person's medical problems affect their daily life such as can they perform a sequence of activities. I won my appeal by explaining that I could not communicate with my own family due to my depression.

 

Ensure that the form is completed by someone on behalf of the claimant as ATOS believe you are sane if you fill it in yourself

Edited November 11, 2012 by coledog

[badback2]

Re above reply by coledog ; cannot see a link/ thread to :

 

download/file.php?id=66

 

???

[coledog]

Hi

 

Have added it as an attachment - can you see it now?

[Nystagmite]

It works now. Thank you.

[badback2]

Yes, got it now thanks. Seen that link before ...it is good.

 

Do you or any other member know if the ESA guide prepared for this forum by leemack has ever been completed to include ref to Part2 of the ESA...Mental Health !?

[honeybee13]

Hello there. Leemack had to put the mental health part of the guide on hold due to her own health problems. But the guys seem to have given you some good pointers. My best, HB

[badback2]

ok..ta....look forward to any feedback re other queries raised.

[estellyn]

Is your sister's diagnosis depression? Because what you've described sounds a lot like bipolar disorder - has this ever been considered for her?

[badback2]

Is your sister's diagnosis depression? Because what you've described sounds a lot like bipolar disorder - has this ever been considered for her?

....,you are correct, but her low mood days are now virtually a contunium

[estellyn]

....,you are correct, but her low mood days are now virtually a contunium

 

sounds like she's getting terrible psychiatric care, poor thing.

[badback2]

sounds like she's getting terrible psychiatric care, poor thing.

,,,,true, but it's a resource problem. In order to help her i'd appreciate some more specific answers to queries raised in OP

[estellyn]

,,,,true, but it's a resource problem. In order to help her i'd appreciate some more specific answers to queries raised in OP

 

I can't see straight right now, and am in some pain. But I'll try to come back tomorrow afternoon to see if I can answer some things.

[badback2]

ta

[estellyn]

OK, re 13, you say your sister stays in bed all day, does she wash, shower, dress? Does she just stay in bed for the majority of the time? If you said to her, 'today I want you to wash and get dressed' would she do it, always, occasionally, or never? Would she get dressed and washed without being told or only when badgered to it or assisted/monitored in completing the tasks? - these are the sorts of things you need to consider when answering this question.

 

14, I would expect this to apply to most people with depression - coping with change tends to be pretty difficult. How does your sister deal with change? can she deal with any change to her normal routine (staying in bed)? Does she have any routines that she has to do that can't get changed without causing significant distress? What if you tell her something is scheduled in advance, will she deal with it and attend? Or can she she not even manage planned appointments? What if you changed the time of a planned appointment - how would she react?

 

15 How is she with going places with which she is unfamilar - could she get there without accompanying? Would she be able to ask for directions while she is out? Is she not able to go out at all anymore even to places that are familiar, without someone with her - ie does she have any level of anxiety about being out.

 

16 Does she have social interaction with anyone? Is it just family, or is the interaction that family has just in a caretaking role, with her not interacting much. Does she ever see friends? Do they come to her or does she go out? If faced with someone coming round unexpectedly for a friednly chat, what would her reaction be? Does she have difficulties talking to or relating to other people? Does she join in conversations? Does she experience distress when she has to around other people?

 

17 When was her last few episodes of disinhibited behaviour? was this likely to be realted to a manic phase in her condition? What were the repercussions of the episode? How often does she have manic episodes and become disinhibited?

 

Also in extra information, write if being found fit for work would would cause her consition to worsen - ie could she become suicidal or manic or have to be hospitalised?

How does she currenty manage her affairs (ie bills, food shopping, preparing food) does this need to be done by others? If so mention this.

 

Regarding worst days, its best to be honest and indicate how often she can and can't do things. For instance - 'on average, stays in bed 4 days a week and does nothing, needs food bringing to her or she won't even eat. On two days a week gets up and will feed herself but doesn't get washed or dressed. On one day a week will get washed and dressed, with once a month actually leaving the house' (obviously just an example).

 

whether or not she mentions her losses of conciousness, the DVLA should be made aware of it, by law, and by not telling them her car insurance is also probably affected.

 

Hope this helps, come back to me with any questions.