Lloyds TSB Trustcard and COBS

[Emtec]

Hi

 

I have had a long term arrangement with Lloyds TSB regarding a Trustcard account.

 

I have been paying a nominal amount for several years.

 

I was contacted by Lloyds TSB earlier this year to review the arrangement and I forwarded a statement of means in the late summer.

 

I then received a reply from BLS, who I hadn't written to (but who are, I believe, part of Lloyds TSB)

advising me that the proposed monthly amount was acceptable.

 

However, they then appear to have almost immediately sold the account to a DCA.

 

It strikes me that this is not treating me fairly and is a breach of Lloyds TSB's statutory obligations under COBS.

 

I wondered if anybody who knows more about such matters could advise me whether this view is reasonable and accurate as I intend to write to them to this effect?

 

Also, I was provided with this credit card when I opened a TSB bank account in the 1990s.

 

If you wanted a cheque guarantee card, the card they gave you doubled as a credit card.

 

I know it pre-dates BCOBS but I wondered if BCOBS was applicable as it was provided by the bank as a cheque guarantee card?

 

I hope that somebody can advise me. Thank you.

[citizenB]

If they have sold the account on after agreeing to a repayment plan, then the new owner is bound by that arrangement. Have a read of the BCOBs and COBs articles that are linked in my signature - highlighted in green. If you have any further questions afterwards, then I will send out some S.O.S's for you.

 

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?840-Stop-your-bank-or-lender-breaching-their-instalment-agreement

 

This article might be useful in respect of this particular situation.

[Emtec]

Thank you citizenB. I had read the articles.

 

My initial recollection was that the Unfair Treatment article covered my situation but on re-reading it says

 

"Reneging on an instalments agreement by, for instance, beginning recovery measures directly or through an agent while the agreement is in place".

 

I know that banks do not act with decency or honour and that this just appears to be accepted as the norm,

but my feeling is that they should not have attempted to negotiate a repayment plan with the express purpose of selling the debt on.

 

They misrepresented their intentions.

 

It wasn't in my best interests and it wasn't treating me fairly.

 

As I quoted above, the Unfair Treatment article gives an example of reneging on an agreement by beginning recovery measures.

 

I wondered what those who know about these matters thought about reneging on an instalment plan within a month of setting it up by selling it to a DCA?

[Emtec]

Sorry citizenB, I posted before seeing your second post.

 

That is a really interesting and helpful article. I have been paying the same nominal amount each month for about 8 years. I haven't missed a payment.

 

However,

it has always been subject to regular review.

 

In 2010 Lloyds TSB wrote telling me that my repayment plan had come to an end and ignored all my correspondence

requesting that it be reinstated until they had defaulted me.

 

They then agreed to accept the same level of payment as had been in place for several years before the default.

 

BLS's letter to me in September accepted the same level of payments again, "subject to periodical review".

 

The DCA's letter acknowledges the agreed repayment plan with Lloyds TSB but states that they regularly review these arrangements.

 

I don't know if the fact that the payments are subject to review provides them with a get out clause?

 

The other interesting point in both the article you provided as a link and also the link from that article to the thread on Connaught Collections

where an estoppel defence was adopted by the judge was the implication that DCAs should not buy debts where there is an agreed repayment plan in place.

 

Is there anything (regulations/legislation) specifically saying that accounts with an ongoing repayment plan should not be bought/sold?

 

Thank you for all your help, citizenB.

[citizenB]

You raise a few queries, I am unable to answer so I will try and find some one with more knowledge to come on board.

 

[dx100uk]

another tact?

 

if they sold it

 

i bet the balance is predominantly PENALTY charges or PPI

 

that could wipe the balance out?

 

there is a reason they sold it

 

bet thats it.

 

dx

[Emtec]

Thank you citizenB. All help will be gratefully accepted.

 

dx100uk, thank you for taking the time to help.

 

Unfortunately, there was no PPI and whilst there will have been some penalty charges, t

he balance is nearly £10k and I don't think that a significant proprtion will be that.

 

My financial problems started when I was defrauded in business and came on suddenly.

 

Lloyds TSB had been very supportive for a number of years.

 

They cancelled interest charges pretty quickly so I think that most of it will be money I used trying, unsuccessfully, to get out of myself out of difficulty.

[dx100uk]

who is the owner on your cra file?

 

has it been sold?

 

dx

[Emtec]

Hi dx

 

Yes it has been sold to a DCA (c a b o t).

 

The purpose of my original post was to enquire whether I had a case for unfair treatment under COBS or possibly BCOBS

because Lloyds TSB had agreed to continue the repayment plan and had immediately sold it on.

If so, I thought I might be able to use it to persuade Lloyds TSB to take the account back.

 

A CAG article on unfair treatment, and the article that citizenB sent me a link for relating to estoppel,

appeared to indicate that I might have a case but my circumstances were different in that my repayment arrangement was subject to periodic review.

 

What also came out of the article on estoppel, and also the thread that that article linked to,

appeared to contain suggestions that a DCA should not buy an account where a repayment plan exists

and I wondered whether that was just a moral code (ie something DCAs would not understand) or was set in regulation or statute.

 

You suggested earlier that Lloyds TSB perhaps sold the account due to there being PPI or a significant chunks of unfair charges.

I suspect they did it because they saw that my financial situation had remained the same for a number of years

and reached the conclusion that there was little prospect of it changing.

[dx100uk]

certainly might be mileage there

 

it interests me they have sold it.

 

you say fraud was involved here somewhere?

 

i'd be more inclined to think that might have a bearing here.

 

dx

[Emtec]

Hi dx

 

Sorry, I get long-winded and tend to cause confusion at times. There is no fraud involved. I did say that I felt that Lloyds TSB had misrepresented their intentions because they asked me to submit an income & expenditure statement on the basis of them considering my proposal to extend the nominal payment arrangement with them. They accepted my proposal and immediately sold the account.

[Emtec]

Hi again dx

 

The penny has just dropped about the fraud issue. I think I mentioned that the reason I got into financial trouble was that I was defrauded in business but that was in the early 2000s. I did explain this to Lloyds TSB at the time but they probably won't even have the letter on file now as it would be over 6 years ago.

[dx100uk]

was the defraud this end result

has it nothing to do with all this at all?

 

if lloyds brushed you off and saddled you with the debts as a result.

 

itcould be linked.

 

the fact itts been sold has a very good reason

 

how much is the debt BTW.

 

dx

[Emtec]

Hi dx

 

The debt is nearly £10k.

 

LLoyds business banking was involved because my business bank account was with them.

 

I lost all my savings and redundancy money and I also had a business loan and business overdraft.

 

They weren't very supportive.

 

I remortgaged to pay these off.

 

And a bi-product of losing all the money was that I used this card and other credit cards to pay the bills until they maxed out.

 

I also had my personal account with Lloyds but the personal banking staff were not aware of my business problems.

 

None of the various parts of Lloyds communicated with each other.

 

I only mentioned the fact that I was defrauded to Trustcard to explain how things had gone wrong.

 

Why would Trustcard be concerned that I had been defrauded apart from the fact that it meant that I could not pay them?

 

The business banking manager couldn't even care less.

And why would they wait some 8 years before choosing to sell on?

 

I've noticed several others on this board reporting that Lloyds have recently sold their accounts to the same DCA.

 

I'd imagine that there have been wholesale sales of accounts where LLoyds have decided that the potential to recover the debts are poor.

Haven't they just reported losses due to PPI misselling?

I'm inclined to think that this maybe why they are cutting their losses by selling these accounts.

 

Nevertheless, I still believe that the way they did it to me was misleading and unfair treatment

and created an unfair relationship and I'm looking for advice on this and also whether there is any regulation preventing the sale/purchase of debts where a repayment plan is in place.

[Emtec]

You raise a few queries, I am unable to answer so I will try and find some one with more knowledge to come on board.

 

 

Hi citizenB

 

I just wondered whether you had found anybody who could advise on whether I could make use of COBS or BCOBS and also whether there is any regulation preventing the sale/purchase of debts where a repayment plan is in place?

 

Thanks

 

Emtec