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    • £3000* as your contribution (Excess) to the sum insured.   If you are on fully comp. you’ll get your repairs, their repairs (and costs) and have to contribute £3k*.   If you are on 3rd party (fire & theft) you’ll get their repairs (and costs) and have to contribute (£3k* AND all of your repair costs), [unless you don’t want your car repaired when you’ll just pay the £3k*]   * £3k if the total exceeds £3k, the total value of the claim if the claim doesn’t exceed £3k : why it  is important to find out the value of their claim and if their claim is appropriate or inflated.
    • I think you're conflating the discussion with your own view of what open borders means.  Obviously I don't think it's sensible to allow people to come to the country and claim whatever they can - They can't even do that now.  If they have a job, and are able to support themselves then that is what I would say is fair enough.  The real issue with selecting who comes to the country is that you can't devise a system that selects people fairly, and it would need some human intervention down the line.  How do you decide who is of benefit to the country etc.. I think if we go down that route, that is where I feel uncomfortable.  Even if we adopted an Australian points based system it wouldn't reduce immigration, and the hole notion of only allowing people that earn above a certain sum of money to come to the country is plain silly - As if the amount of money someone earns is the mark of their character.  And as we know, we rely heavily on low skilled seasonal labour.     Your point is moot because our low skilled workforce have no reason to move to another country unless the standard of living is equal or better to ours.  I did read the other day though that the UK provides the greatest number of immigrants from any other country to Australia.   I would suggest that the foreign aid everyone likes to grumble at is a way to improve living standards in other countries.
    • I dont care what race, colour, creed, sexuality or personal religious beliefs anyone holds and just like I dont believe anyone should be penalised in any way for their purely personal choices and beliefs, neither do I believe they should expect or be given benefit or preference over any others based on them.   Real non-discrimination in my opinion.   If a person is a benefit to our society - I don't care about their purely personal choices. If a person is not a benefit to our society - I dont care about their purely personal choices.   ... and that certainly is not anything approaching Nazi-ism in my opinion. Sounds more like real world socialism to me than most self-proclaiming socialists I hear and see.     Are people who make 'profit' - all 'bad' - are they heck as like Are people who say we should give everything away to those more 'needy' - all 'good' - are they heck as like and in the vast majority of those cases most are nether of the extremes of 'good' or 'bad',   .. although it is arguable that those who consciously make a personal choice give away all their personal belongings other than perhaps the absolute minimum they NEED - to those more needy ... are 'saints' - if their personal choices accept that, and whether officially acknowledged or not.     I agree it would be great if the world was at peace with itself and everyone, and no-one went hungry or feared for their childrens futures, and there was no greed, or fear or hate or even want - but this is the real world, and we have to deal with it in real ways.   Not even Star Treks federation is close, let alone the reality we need to deal with.
    • This will be won’t pay more.  The Ex-husband got his ex-wife to go to mediation to sort out the financial side because they own property together.  The ex-wife did not like what she heard from the mediator and would not cooperate. So they wasted 3 visits. Afterwards she arranged another mediation meeting but just for herself without the ex-husband involved and paid over £120 to tell the mediation service how shit she thought they were. Then told the ex-husband what she had done.     Now here’s a new bit of information at the moment the ex’s have one of their houses up for sale, can my sister put a lean on the house?  If yes, how does she put the lean only on the ex-wife’s part of the money
    • I have had to fill in a declaration a few times. southern Water are the worst performing Water provider in the UK. They have even been investigated by the Serious Fraud Office.    I have no doubts there will be many vulnerable Southern Water customers with similar issues who are not aware there Watersure Tariff has been wrongfully  removed.   The culture within Southern Water as I have experienced lacks transparency. The Customer Service Manager used language that removed all blame from Southern Water. Instead of saying they would accurately re bill me he said he would look into the overpayments Inhabe been making!!
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unclebulgaria67

Another ATOS death

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http://politicalscrapbook.net/2012/11/disabled-man-dies-after-atos-stops-benefits-chris-grayling/

 

Makes awful reading. Apparently 1700 deaths are being linked to failed ATOS assessments.

 

Perhaps the government should release full details of their risk assessment into this policy, as surely they must have told ATOS on what basis to assess people as being fit for work.


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32 per week, bloody shocking and a disgrace. Value on a human life? Atos knows, dwp knows shame its sensitive commercial information.

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Jesus christ what is this; legal genocide? This needs blowing wide open by the media.

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32 per week, bloody shocking and a disgrace. Value on a human life? Atos knows, dwp knows shame its sensitive commercial information.

 

I heard that figure has long been past, into the 70s now. Soon be over a 100, perhaps when people start seeing people they know disappear they might say something. The frightening bit is they just finished reshowing Nazis a warning from History on the TV, yet still nobody is seeing it.

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The problem is that ATOS are incentivised for finding as many people fit for work as possible and then the DWP don't really assist people properly afterwards. It is no good saying people are fit to work and then offer no resource to help them. They seem to just say no, cut the money and then the benefit claimant has to apply for JSA without any help being given.


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a good friend of mine was on esa, is dissabled, had to endure the atos medical failed it, was put on jsa, who found her a job in a nusery, 30 hours a week my friend was in agony trying to pick children up that the owner sent her home because she couldnt cope with the job, she went to her GP, who gave her a sick note, but she doesnt know what will happen now because she cant work shes to unwell, so what about other disabled people who get sent to work but are to ill for the job, will they get sick pay

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Whilst i believe that atos and indeed the whole benefit system is broken and does need radical reform -not sure what though- it is very easy to blame these deaths on atos when i wonder how many direct cases there are. I am not sure the Nazi thing is quite appropriate. That was a whole different set of circumstances and a whole different argument imo.

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No the deaths are not directly related, after all Atos isn't treating them. The point is that these people are being declared fit for work and then dying. So blaming atos or the gov for it misses the point somewhat, however it shows how incompetent atos are.

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I think those who commit suicide from the experience of dealing with atos would disagree.

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Zonker, this thread did not mention suicide at all. I agree even one suicide is one too many but it is a complex issue. Do you have any statistics on that? By the way in my experience, and i do have a little,most people who commit suicide seem perfectly able and in control,or at least in no danger of doing it.

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OK accepting they might result in suicides, but the majority of the deaths mentioned aren't that. Trust me I have no love for atos having been through the hell of their system with my partner.

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'The DWP said it did not have research data on the impact of assessments on people's mental health and that no links could accurately be made to suicides.' , from

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19437785

 

and also this FOI request ,

 

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/suicide_and_attempted_suicide_du

 

which shows they are aware of suicides , but they dont collate the information and wont search for them under cost grounds for FOI requests.

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I have no doubt that the truth is being hidden for various reasons. But ATOS are not totally to blame. They have been given the job by DWP and told what to do. The real blame is with DWP for not providing appropriate resources to assist people declared fit for work. The DWP should be working with NHS professionals and Job Centre Plus staff to see what is needed to support the people. ATOS are just involved in a box ticking exercise, paid a fee to run the assessments against a limited criteria. I think a number of Doctors have resigned from ATOS, as they were unhappy with the assessment process.

 

The other issue is whether the UK economy can provide the 35 million jobs that would be required to have full employment. The government have just removed some financial support from Remploy causing the loss of many jobs. This is a bit silly if you ask me, as if you want people with disabilities to work, then government does have a role to play. There are many employers who would not offer employment to people with disabilities, as the cost implications to make reasonable adjustments, may be too much.


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How many have died due to an unrelated medical condition? Like the person who has a heart attack or something? There is no proof that all these deaths are to do with ATOS.

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No but when we lose someone we need someone to blame.It makes grieving easier however as in this case it can promote a backlash.

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It's not always someone elses fault though. I know that some commit suicide - it's possible that this isn't just to do with ATOS.

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I wasn't blaming anyone,i was saying we look at people to blame. When a person commits suicide we may blame ourselves for not having done more,if someone has a dies suddenly we may blame a doctor or the fact we didn't force them to the gp last week.

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The issue is really about a process that finds people fit for work but whoare clearly so ill that they have died soon after this decision was taken. Ifyou are so ill that you die within weeks or months of being assessed as"FIT FOR WORK" there is something seriously wrong with the system.

You do not need a degree in medicine or even been a qualified nurse ordoctor to see this needs changing.

ATOS are responsible for the assessments and are therefore responsible forthe gross misjudgement but the government is ultimately responsible for givinga Multi Million £ contract to a company which is not fit for purpose.

Any of us could find ourselves so ill or disabled that we would be UNFIT forwork. We need a system that takes good care of vulnerable people not makingthem more vulnerable and insecure than they already are.

Please help by signing this petition.....Thank you!

http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/letter-to-the-icc-at-the-hague-re-mistreatment-of-the-disabled-and-sick

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Aren't DWP partly responsible too? They surely get all the evidence (including ESA50) to make their decision.

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