Arden and recon on lombard direct loan.

[roaringgirl]

I sent a CCA and was given a recon with

no name;

no address;

no T&C's;

no interest rate

 

- nothing.

 

I challenged it and this is the response

- verbatim - which I received this afternoon - any help would be appreciated cos I am fuming!

Also - thier figures do not add up - they say we owe them 1,800 but when I went through the statement

they sent me they had missed off TWO years of payments at least! We actually owe them just over 1k.

 

letter from them -

 

"Further to my letter f 1 November 2012. I have now investigated your complaint fully and in line with our Complaints Proceedure.

I am in a position to provide you with a final response. Our investigation has highlighted that we do not uphold your complaint.

 

To enable you to understand the reasons for this decision, I would like to take you through the facts of the investigations and share the conclusions with you.

 

Our Investigation

 

On the 24 October 2012 we responded to your request for a copy of your loan agreement.

In compliance with your request pursuant to Section 77 of the CCA we enclosed a reconstituted copy of the executed Credit Agreement

and a statement of account.

 

In accordance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 it is acceptable to supply you with a reconstituted copy as the creditor

or owner may not have preserved a copy of the executed agreement.

 

The requirement allows us not to provide an exact copy, a carbon photocopy or microfiche copy and we can therefore provide a reconstituted copy.

 

Our Findings

 

We are confident that all our agreements are properly executed and not open to challenge.

 

Even if, which is denied, the agreement is improperly executed then all requisite Schedule 6 information is included sufficient to allow the court to permit enforcement.

 

You must take whatever action you conside necessary,

 

however, we will not be releasing you from any obligation.

 

Furthermore, a request made under section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act is not a provision to remove liability

and if you believe that the above agreement was not entered into by you and therefore believe fraud to have take place,

you should report this to your local police station.

 

The current balance is £1813.43 which remains outstanding.

 

If however you are experiencing financial difficulties please contact our office so that we may discuss mutually agreed repayment proposals.

 

Please note that,

under the terms of our Complaints Proceedure, this is our final response.

 

If you are dissatisfied with it, you may refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

You need to do this within 6 months from the date of this letter.

For more information please read the enclosed guide 'Your Complaint and the Ombudsman'.

 

The address of the Financial Ombudsman Service is:

 

Financial Ombudsman Service

South Quay Plaza

183 Marsh Wall

London

E12 9SR

 

I also enclose a copy of our internal Compliants Proceedure for your information.

 

Once again, we are sorry for the inconvenience we caused you and hope you will find that the points above offer a fair resolution.

[dx100uk]

do you know what debt this is?

 

is it showing on your CRA file?

 

how old is the debt?

 

when was it originally taken out?

 

dx

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

A recon MUST have the name and addresss of the debtor at the inception of the account,

the name and address of the original creditor.

The terms and conditions (complete) in force at the inception of the account.

All variations on the terms and coditions during the life of the account.

The terms and conditions current or at closure of the account.

A statement of the account should be included.

 

I would go to the ombudsman!!!

[roaringgirl]

The loan was taken out years and years ago - I don't know the original amount.

 

It was defaulted on in 2004.

 

I will check the CRA to see, but it probably no longer shows.

 

How can i prove them wrong with regard to the recon?

 

Honestly - the one they sent us was just a blank copy of any old credit agreement you can find on application forms.

 

How can I call their bluff and what will happen if they take me to court?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

OK when was the last payment or acknowledgment in writting?

[roaringgirl]

July was the last payment - we offered F&F but they refused to negotiate

[dx100uk]

if the debt was taken out prior to 2007

 

they WILL need the ORIGINAL AGREEMENT

to go to court.

 

end of.

 

how long have you been paying arden?

 

something smells here.

 

dx

[roaringgirl]

We have been paying back this debt since December 2004. Is there any legislation that says they have to provide the original agreement?

[dx100uk]

YES!!

 

NO CCA = NO PAY = sadly you apprear to have been cash cowed

 

stop paying them

 

dx

[roaringgirl]

Thank you for that DX - how do you think I ought to respond to the letter? (I have stopped paying them since July)

[dx100uk]

pers i'd just send the failure to comply letter

then ignore them

dx

[roaringgirl]

Hello - checked the Credit file - the debt isn't listed there - can anyone point me to a non-compliance letter template please?

[dx100uk]

dca section on the right

 

after

 

green library tab top left

[roaringgirl]

Is this ok?

 

Thank you for your letter of 7th November2012, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of theoriginal Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On both October 2nd 2012 andOctober 22nd 2012 I made a formal request for a true signedagreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/78. Thiswas signed for as delivered on or before October 25th 2012.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered defaulton 8th November 2012 (12+2 working days after you made the initialrequest).

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executedagreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required termsand statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as definedin section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If theexecuted agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are alsoobliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement ofthis account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits tothe account – and there are significant gaps in the recording of the paymentsmade.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working daysfor a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out beforeyou/your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become currently unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy ofthe said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to senda full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentationrequested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines ondebt collection which state under the titleDeceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows -2.8

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when adebt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wronglypursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonablequeried or disputed debt'

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFULand VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawfulharassment.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authoritiesas I see fit.

You have 21 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentionsto resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

 

I look forward to hearing from you. This should be in writing, I have no wishto correspond by telephone.

[Bandit127]

Seems silly to state that they have "failed to respond" when they have responded...

 

I would also add "Account in Dispute" as a title.

 

Is this ok?

 

Thank you for your letter of 7th November2012, the contents of which have been noted.

 

Your response does not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act.

 

On both October 2nd 2012 andOctober 22nd 2012 I made a formal request for a true signedagreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/78. Thiswas signed for as delivered on or before October 25th 2012.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered defaulton 8th November 2012 (12+2 working days after you made the initialrequest).

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executedagreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required termsand statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as definedin section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If theexecuted agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are alsoobliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement ofthis account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits tothe account – and there are significant gaps in the recording of the paymentsmade.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working daysfor a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out beforeyou/your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become currently unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy ofthe said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to senda full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentationrequested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines ondebt collection which state under the titleDeceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows -2.8

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when adebt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wronglypursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonablequeried or disputed debt'

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFULand VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawfulharassment.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authoritiesas I see fit.

You have 21 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentionsto resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

 

I look forward to hearing from you. This should be in writing, I have no wishto correspond by telephone.

[roaringgirl]

Thank you - have ammended

[dx100uk]

IMHO i would not tell them nor change anything.

 

they know full well why they have failed

 

if not

 

let them work it out.

 

leave the letter as the template.

 

make sure it has a lkine at the top

 

i do not acknowledge any dent to your company.

 

dx

[roaringgirl]

Dent??? Dent?!!!!

[dx100uk]

yes we all bang heads with these people

 

debt

 

dx

[smithy70]

If they have sent a final response, why correspond with them at all.

 

I would never tell a DCA what is wrong or what they have to do to put it right.

 

The recon may be a pile of tosh but if you tell them they could put that right and then they would have complied.

 

Should this ever go to court (which I doubt) you need to be able to convince the judge that you did not sign an agreement

[citizenB]

You should be able to reclaim the default/penalty charges applied (and interest on those charges). Have a read of the BCOBS articles in my signature - highlighted in green.. is this company "Treating you Fairly".. if not, then you can make a complaint, first to the company and if no resolution.. take your complaint to the Ombudsman.

[roaringgirl]

I think this is just interest though - can I still claim that back?

[dx100uk]

no

 

dx

[roaringgirl]

Ok - their response - shall I simply ignore?

 

"As per our previous response dated 7 November 2012 a copy of which is enclosed, our position has not changed in relation to this matter.

 

Unfortunately, we do not hold the original agreement.

 

We have, however, provided you with a reconstituted copy, in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act, regulation 3 (2), which expressely states that a copy need not be an exact copy.

 

We are well aware of the principles under section 61 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act and we are confident that all our agreements are properly executed and not open to challenge.

 

Even if, which is denied, the agreement is improperly executed then all requisite Schedule 6 information is included sufficient to allow the court to permit enforcement.

 

Given this, we believe any application you make will fail, even if it did not, the courts do not have jurisdiction to order reimbursement of amounts already paid.

 

As we have issued our final response in this matter, and our position has not changed, we will not be releasing you from any liability with regards to the above account."

 

1) the recon has no name; credit amount; interst rates - nada

2) Their 'statement' was wildly inaccurate and missed out payments we have made to them totalling £2,255.

 

 

What do I do now?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

A reconstituted agreement MUST Have the name and address of the Creditor, the name and address of the debtor at the time of the inception of the account.

 

The terms and conditions of the agreement at inception and any variations during the life of the agreement and the t&cs at the termiation/closure of the account.

Interest rates.