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    • Apologies I hadn't seen that uploads need to be in PDF.   I have received the attached letter from STA which I assume is a standard letter as I've never spoken to them on the phone. I'm not sure what they mean by 're-commence recovery action'? Do I just continue to ignore them?   I have been in contact with the Uni who insist I need to pay the fees as I left the course after the first three weeks. They have not provided any evidence/documents that I signed an agreement to pay the fees or that I acknowledged that fees would be due if the course was left early. They referred me to their website which undoubtedly has changed since I was there.    I appreciate I shouldn't reply to STA however I'm not sure how to proceed with this overall.   I've read the claim form page and I'm not clear if I can request a copy of a credit agreement from the Uni as I'm not sure if its standard for a University to have required a credit agreement to be signed?    I'm not really clear what happens next and at what point I need to act. I've read about lots of different cases (fee related and non fee related) but can't find information on a case that is similar to mine. Do I wait until the Uni begins a formal action? I am concerned as I don't want the amount to increase from the already significant amount they are demanding.     Many thanks for any help you can offer.  staletter.pdf
    • I have now received some interesting responses....   Firstly - Lowell have sent a without prejudice letter offering a settlement of £3750 for a single payment or £4000 payable in instalments of £50pcm   Second - Lowell also sent a previous letter with the copy of the agreement saying it was the one they filed to court in 2018.  However I have not yet had it acknowledged from the court that they received a certificate of service for this.    Third - The court wrote to me today from the proper officer stating a video hearing will be heard 14 May 2021.    Dealing with each one in tern, I see the court hasn't responded to my email asking them to strike out the claim on the basis that Lowell haven't adhered to the order and that I haven't received the original documents and have now set this hearing date.    I note Lowell are willing to take an offer which is of interest. However I am inclined on the costs issue and trying to 'get rid' of the matter as cost effective and expediently as possibly to make a counter offer (at what level I am not quite sure yet).    Is there a letter template to use to draft a settlement or something that I can use to start with?     In Lowell settlement letter they are claiming it is not statute barred and that a payment was made to them for £200.  I have tried to go through everything and all I can find with the help of Santander who were my bank at the time, is a payment of £200 paid to Lloyds, but this does not have a reference on it only a s/c and a/c number.    How best is it to proceed?   Court Order 22_02_2021.pdf Response to Order.pdf Offer Letter.pdf
    • yes I have conversed over email and sent them forms both in email and by royal mail, firstly with erudio, then they sent it to capquest, then it went back to erudio and now with shoosmiths for a few years now.   And yes they are well aware of my correct and current address, I have only ever moved once since the loan and that was before Erudio and it was all plain sailing with Saas/slc.
    • 2 days now and the insurers have done nothing - just making it much more stressful.  
    • Pretty sure you are correct its not by royal mail either they are well aware of you correct and current address? so I'd ignore them.   Did you converse by email previously?? And or send your forms via email? Or royal mail?
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    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 31 replies

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just got home from having a puncture on my mobility scooter lol, and came home to find that Vanqis are having a bop now ffs lol.... i sent in all required information to them recorded delivery ( i have proof of delivery and signature) disputed the excessive charges currently (£400)+ i do have repayment option plan and they have now said they will respond to my complaints for refund within 56 days, so using this snippet of info if i now get a DCA write to me i wait 56 days or near enough to reply

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:smile:thx bazooka Boo just one low life left to sort thats Vanquis with payment protection involved they have added £133-00 in charges and have sent it to 1st credit they returned it, now they have sent it off to Moorcroft wtf lol its in dispute dohh Moorcroft have added a search on my credit file have disputed that too lol gotta give it to them they dont give up do they grrr ffs lol:whoo:

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That is how this whole sorry sordid industry finances itself, I wouldn't give these clowns the time of day now, whenever they send me their junk mail, I just file it a way, and occasionally will give them a ring and bait them, they are so uneducated.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!



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  • 3 weeks later...

:mad2: hi all, i am in confusion big time, I have a vanqis credit card, (What an idiot I know ) with ROP (repayment option Plan) this I didnt ask for at the time of applying, but have used it for the last 2 years, to cut a long story short Vanquis added charges and fees whilst my ROP was in force taking me over my limit adding even more charges grrr lol, they sent my file to 1st credit for collection, whilst my account was in dispute, Vanquis recalled, then sent it off to Moorcrap, demanding £133.00 in charges on top of my £250-00 limit, I have sent off the following to Moorcrap and vanquis

1. Account in dispute letter (Vanquis)

2. All ROP documents (on time) (Vanquis)

3. Account letter in dispute (Moorcrap)

4. A letter with DWP statment proving that i have been on benefits since 06/2010 to both of them


Now this gets interesting

1. Vanquis have sent it to Moorcrap knowing it to be in dispute

2. Have stopped my ROP and demanding payments whilst my ROP was activated since sending it to Moorcrap

3. Spoke to Moorcrap and told them the same story and they have suspended the account to speak to Vanquis, and will let me know the outcome, so I am quite good at sorting most things out but this one is weird,

Now I am looking for advice in the form of copy paste letters as i am still recovering from 4 major brain surguries in 06/2010 and have dealt with 17 other dca's successfully with advise from here, so if anyone can assist me I would be grateful, if you post letters or where to go next please help, if you have letters please reply here with them as I seem to have trouble navigating the site most of the time due to being ill, this is my only remaining debt and its just for £133-00, I dont dispute the initial limit of £250-00 but the unfair charges

I guess iI need to write a letter regarding the agreement and the charges thx in advance from


the crazy ill guy

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What do you want to do now ? What letter do you want to send ? Just one about charges ? If the agreement is recent, it is not worth requesting.


Moorcroft generally just chase for payments on behalf of creditors at an early stage, so they may just return the account to Vanquis.

We could do with some help from you.



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I have sent the folloing letters to both Moorcrap and Vanquis

Dear Sir/Madam,


I am writing to ask you to refund to me the late payment fees and exceeded limitfees which you have levied on my account since 30/11/2011, whilst this account has been subject of ROP, and in dispute since 30/11/2011, amounting to a total of £128.11, plus the interest you levied on those charges at 29.9 % APR, which amount to £128.11, total requested for refund:£128.11.


I amfully aware that the fees which you have been applying to my account are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations. Should you wish to argue that they are not, then you will pleased to demonstrate this by letting me have a full Breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breach, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.


It is my duty to remind you that failure to refund the charge to my account will result in my issuing a County Court Claim. If I have to do that,you will then become liable for my court fee of £ 75.00 and statutory 8%APR. I truly hope this does not have to happen and that you will refund the charges without need for further action on my behalf.






Dictated not signed






Date 23/10/2012


Dear Sir/Madam


Re:− Account/Reference Number


This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.


I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request; the provisions of s.77 (6) will apply.



Your attention is drawn to ss.5 (2), 3(b), 6 and 7 of the ConsumerProtection from Unfair Trading Regulations2008 (CPUTR).


I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.


If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.


I look forward to hearing from you.


Yours faithfully




Dictated not signed





Date 25/10/2012










Dear Sir or Madam,


Account Number


I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why my account has been passed to Moorcroft, as it is in dispute with yourselves Vanquis and has been since 30/11/2011 Not only is this a breach of OFTcollection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 andData Protection Act 1998


As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127[1] this constitutes a complete defence at law.


Consequentially any legal action you pursue will beaverred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.


Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to you for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as Moorcroft cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.


If Moorcroft chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.


After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40[2] as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines[3]


I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.


I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter. Ilook forward to hearing from you in writing.


Yours faithfully



Dictated not signed



[1]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/127accessed 25/10/2012


[2]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1970/31/part/Vaccessed 25/10/2012


[3]http://www.oft.gov.uk/about-the-oft/legal-powers/legal/cca/debt-collectionaccessed 25/10/2012






Date 23/10/2012



Dear Sir/Madam





Please supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to any matter and in any form and for any period of time.


Please note that I require disclosure of any personal data which you hold on me for the entire period of my dealings withyou.


This Subject Access Request includes - but is not limited to any data you hold about me in respect of any matter and held in any form including notes, screennotes, recordings, internal correspondence and external correspondence.


I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.


If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourselfas to my identity, please let me know by return.


If I do not hear from you then I will assume that this Statutory Request is satisfactory and that the 40 day timescale has started.




Yours faithfully


Dictated not signed







Ac *********************




Date 06/10/2012





Dear Sir/Madam



Please be advised this account is in serious dispute and has been since 01/12/2011, you have not finished dealing with my complaints, yet you have issued a default notice and sent this account to a DCA Moorcroft.


A complaint with the ref: ***** is lodged with you and has not been completed to my satisfaction, I received a letter from Moorcroft demanding payment, I will not make any payment to you or to them till you refund all my charges, since I have been unemployed, a copy from the DWP will prove I have been since 06/2010 also enclosed I will by the time you get this letter have been to my local council to make a complaint to the office of fair trading, I have enclosed yet again copies of my documents to support my ROP claim, I have duly sent these as and when needed, yet you find it necessary to add further charges to my account,You have added over £130.00 in charges that are both wrong and unjust, you know I am seriously ill and disabled,


Till you refund ALL of my charges and make it so my account is in credit even by £1, I will continue to dispute this account, and if necessary will wait to you take me to court, where I will provide to the district judge, copies of all my communications with you, all of them time and date stamped, now this will be my final time that I will write to you regarding this dispute, unless you refund me in full, then take me to court please.... the following documents are enclosed for the second time






1. Confirmation of benefits from Job Centre 2 pages(Edited to protect my data)


2. Sick note from Drs


3. Bank Statement showing benefits (Edited toprotect my Data)


4. A copy of benefits from DWP showing benefitssince 06/2010 (edited to protect my data)








Yours Sincerely






Dictated not signed







Edited by mikeymack2002

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Hi was googling and came across this is it correct or just soso?








When any so-called "Debt Collection Agency" (which includes Solicitors and Bailiffs threatening to obtain Court Orders) place any demand on you they are perpetrating a fraud. In the case of Court Orders, their original application to the Court conjoined said Court in the fraud.


Here are the reasons.


They will write a demand to you, claiming to be "Agents" of the Originator (the "originator" being whomsoever made the demand in thefirst place e.g. Bank, Building Society, Local Authority, etc.). This is a lie. They are not "Agents" at all, but have purchased the so-called'debt' with their own 'money'. They do this by buying very cheaply, and then attempting to collect the full amount from you. This is how they expect to make a profit.


Please Note: Those who work for these "Agencies" (in the lowerechelons) do not, necessarily, know anything about this, however they will have some kind of "Purchasing Department", who will know exactly what is going on.


In Law, however, by purchasing the so-called debt, they have EXTINGUISHED THE DEBT. This means that the 'money' is no longer owed. By you in law. Anything you may (or may not) have actually 'owed' has been written off, by the Originator. And it was yourself and the Originator that may (or may not) have had any Contract to which you may have been obligated.


Thus, for anyone to claim that you still 'owe' anything is abare-faced lie, and a FRAUD. It is DEFAMATION, plain and simple. Fundamentally what has happened is that 'someone' has paid off any debt you may (or may not) have owed, on your behalf. (It is perfectly acceptable for Human"B" to pay off Human "A"s debts ... this happens all the time, where, for example, parents may bail out their children, and vice versa. Friends can do this for each other all the time).


But, once any so-called 'debt' has been paid, it has been paid.And that's all there is to it.


But, when Debt Collection Agencies do this, they continue to pursue you for a debt that has been - in actual fact - extinguished by their very purchase.


So they are actually pretty stupid ... going around paying off someone else's 'debts'. And they do this out of avarice (greed). And it is long past time that these greedy people got their 'come-uppance'.


And that is happening. And the Genie is out of the Bottle.


This point is this. By purchasing so-called 'debts' in this way, they had no interest in any original Contract. Thus, when they purchased, they did so of their own volition, out of pure avarice, without any legal, lawful, or moral obligation to do so.


In short, THEY UPPED AND VOLUNTEERED. And we all know what happens when you volunteer for anything ... YOU TAKE ALL THE RISKS AND ANY COMEBACKS UPON YOURSELF. (That's what volunteering means).


Because, by volunteering, you have agreed to take all the risks yourself, you have absolutely no right whatsoever to involve anyone also, and try to palm the risks off on someone else.


Which is of course, precisely what they are doing when they try to palm it off on you, by claiming to be "Agents" and sending you demands.


They are perpetrating a FRAUD. Any original 'debt' has been extinguished, and no longer exists, so any claim to the contrary is a lie. They claim to be Agents when they are, in point of fact, nothing more than 'volunteers'who decided (RATHER STUPIDLY) to take on all the risks UPON THEMSELVES.


In "legal" terms, they try to get around all of this by considering the Volunteer to be a "Holder in Due Course". This is, of course, nothing more than a "Legal wrangle" to try to get over the basic FRAUD. This does not get around the basic fact that the so-called'debt' was extinguished when it was purchased. Neither does it get around the fact that the Agency is NOT acting as an "Agent" of the Originator (which is therefore a deception), but is acting totally on their own behalf. This is because, as far as possible, "Legal" will always turn a blindeye to "Reality & Law".


The result of this is, therefore, nothing more nor less than "Totally Legalised Fraud" And, for that reason these sound arguments are very risky to use in a Court. Therefore it is better to fall back in the 'base' augment: Prove the original debt.



Edited by mikeymack2002

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Any mention of discounts means they won't go near a court as it is riddled full of reclaimable fees and charges.


Send the DCA this http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?426-A-letter-when-the-account-has-been-passed-to-another-debt-collection-agency


Don't be overly concerned with DCA's, they have absolutely NO legal powers whatsoever, they are for all intense and purposes, fake and redundant.


Your dispute is with the bank, not some third party toddler group.


Enter into Vanquis's complaints procedure and exhaust it to your satisfaction or until you can escalate the complaint.


Once you have sent that letter to the DCA ignore them.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!



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Had a go at moorcrap they fled sent account back to Vanquis it was too much for them now I will escalte the to FOC as Vanquis cancelled the ROP for no reason lol managed to get Vanquis to refund alot of charges but they are digging in their heal for a measly £133-50 thats my last debt, so what next I need to help some others to fight back so will stay around advising as many as I can woo go Daddy lol...

Current scores as follows DCa's 0 Daddy 18 woo thanks for the advise here guys has keep me busy and it has helped me forget I am suffering from a serious brain injury haahaa :whoo:

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What exactly is this "ROP" plan, mikey ?


You could remind them that they are supposed to "treat you fairly" and if they havent done this, then FOS would probably look into the situation for you :)

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.



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Can anyone tell me what this link to Freemen on the Land lunacy removed. FMOTL Is nonsense - please don't post links to it. is as it reminds me of that other website which rabbits on about common law run by ceylon and someone. Surely if it were true no one would owe anything. There seems a basic flaw in the argument in the distinction between total assignment and contracting out the collection.

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Can anyone tell me what this link removed is as it reminds me of that other website which rabbits on about common law run by ceylon and someone. Surely if it were true no one would owe anything. There seems a basic flaw in the argument in the distinction between total assignment and contracting out the collection.


I can't tell you about the site, but the text quoted in post #4 is dodgy to say the least. And after seeing the 'logo' on the aforementioned website, I think I was right to surmise that its author should have put the bong down when reading up on the ins and outs of contract law...

Edited by citizenB
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Hopefully it helped the op realise that the txt posted was of no use. I apologise if i posted an link that was not allowed but that starts a whole new debate.

There is a link to that site at the bottom of the quote so maybe that needs removing as well. That is how i found it.

I think at citizen b says the meaning of ROP would be useful

Edited by westfield
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ROP = repayment option plan something i have paid for but didnt ask for lol, BUT have used it for 2 years they just slap on more n more late charges was over £450-00 in fees got all back except £133-00 so far have made an official complaint have done the following as of this SUNDAY CCA REQ/ SAR so will wait for their response b4 getting FOS involved also this has been dragging on since 06/2010 as well ffs lol pmsl :razz:didnt mean to cause further confusion lol I do have a great understanding of the law including credit criminal civil laws as daughter is just finishing her Law degree lol sorry guys :oops:

Edited by mikeymack2002

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Regarding item 4 of this post if you do fone the dca involed and they have purchased the debt then the debt is paid, but then if they say we have to speak to our client then this is them misleading/lying and very very naught yes? They HAVE bought the debt the debt IS paid and they have certain rights to collect on their purchase but if the law says the debt is paid its paid, but if the law says you owe a balance then the balance due is what they paid for it nothing more nothing less, how can someone buy something then expect someone to repay their kindness? I will never repay someone that has has bought something they didnt have too!! If they want to be daft and risk their arm in such a way I always say thankyou for settling my debt and ask for a receipt, if they dont give me a receipt then how can they claim for a refund of their purchase?? I'm confused lol :smile:

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In my experience a dca can act as an agent or have some rights assigned to them. I have had letters saying we have instructed xyz to act on our behalf in which case they may have to refer back to the client. In other cases they buy the debt and the law clearly states what needs to be done. That is the debtor needs to be notified as soon as possible in a certain format. If this is not done they can not bring action.

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not sent any info so they have not complied, also Moor croft are only acting as agents, the error is Vanquis sending this debt to a dca knowing it to be indispute too

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And moorcrap returned the account to vanquis? .so they did the right thing. I do not understand this ROP but so long as overtime they send it to a dca you respond with in dispute and do not acknowledge the debt hopefully it will go away.

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it wont lol the debt is fine but the charges are not its a small debt nothing to worry about but the fact is they add charges and call in the mugget patrol to inforce when in dispute

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