summons for driving uninsured, at court TOMORROW

[sorrylittlelot]

Hi all I foolishly drove on a provisional by myself and am now being summoned to court over this offence and driving without third party insurance, i was and am still named as a driver on my girlfriends policy.

 

i intend to plead guilty via post and was wondering if anybody know what my likely punishment would be and the best way of escaping a ban.

 

i am not condoning this and agree i should be punished

[sorrylittlelot]

any1?

[Huff&Puff]

A couple of hundred quid fine and 6 points would be my guess. I don't know what happens after you pass your test though, 6 points in the first 2 years means your licence gets revoked normally.

[noomill060]

Couple of hundred for driving without a licence and 12 points, another 6 points and a couple of hundred pounds fine for driving without insurance.

 

Six months ban and insane insurance (if any will touch you) premiums for the next 5 years.

 

If your girlfriend knew you were driving, she might get done as well.

[hev106]

Hi, To try and answer your question and giving the worst possible scenario.... Police could have seized the vehicle for no insurance (unless they did do so), Driving other than in accordance (no supervisor with you) could see Discretionary driving ban, fine up to £1000, 3-6 points, 3-6 months in prison Driving with no insurance (which is an absolute offence) 6-8 points, up to £5000 fine (ouch) Discretionary driving ban

 

Sorry if the above seems harsh but it is a fact of life and unfortunately I know you say you were named on your g/f insurance but they 'may' say no supervisor, not covered! and then thats were you get driving with no insurance

 

Although the points on your provisional licence will remain valid until they expire on their third anniversary and thus would be transferred to your full licence, they would not prevent you from taking your driving test. If you pass, a full licence will be issued with the existing endorsements detailed. Whilst they remain valid, any further offence within your probation period would result in revocation if it is punished by penalty points.

 

I hope this assists you and would suggest you could try checking websites such as Motor Lawyers who offer guidance in their various sections and also contacting a solictor for face to face advice/representation for court

[sorrylittlelot]

thank you for your replies, any ideas what i should put in my mitigating circumstances on my plea form, i understand i will be punished but what to get the leniest punishment possible (obviously)

the night i was pulled over as a year after my girlfriend was diagnosed with cervical cancer, she was out having a few drinks and became upset so i went to collect her as there was no taxis to be found

[patdavies]

A couple of hundred quid fine and 6 points would be my guess. I don't know what happens after you pass your test though, 6 points in the first 2 years means your licence gets revoked normally.

 

What happens is that points accumulated prior to passing the first test do not count towards the 6 for revocation, until and unless any more points are awarded in the first 2 years following the test pass.

[crem]

What happens is that points accumulated prior to passing the first test do not count towards the 6 for revocation, until and unless any more points are awarded in the first 2 years following the test pass.

 

They do count towards the 6 points, but do not in themselves prompt a revocation, which I think is what patdavies is saying too.

 

eg you could have 3 points already when you pass your test and on receiving another 3 your total is now 6 and your licence will be revoked.

 

Likewise you could have 8 points on your licence when you pass your first test, but you will still be given a full licence to drive until you receive a single extra point. A speeding 3 points will now make your total 11 which is more than 6 (obviously ) and your licence will be revoked.

[2ltr16valve]

A provisional license is that, a licence so it can be revoked and you can be banned from driving and obtaining a licence. Sadly I have been there !

 

What you will get is a totting up disqualification, and this endorsement will carry over after the end of the disqualification onto the full license should you pass once the disqual ends.

The disqualification will be issued for no insurance as this carries 6 points/ban.

While the quote below says they can ban, in my experience they do and always have done when at court unless your life/career depends on the use of the car

 

 

Penalties

 

The seriousness of the offence is reflected in the level of the maximum fine of £5,000, and the automatic endorsement of an offender’s licence with six to eight penalty points. The courts can order the immediate disqualification of the offender. The police also have wide powers to stop vehicles and inspect certificates, and this leads to around 300,000 convictions for uninsured driving every year.

Driving without insurance can be punishable within the fixed penalty system. The fixed penalty of £200 and six penalty points allows a more thorough enforcement of this offence. The possibility of a fixed penalty gives the police an extra option for dealing with the offence concerned, but it doesn't prevent the police's ability to prosecute in appropriate cases when they consider that to be the best course of action.

The police have the power to seize, and in some cases, destroy the vehicle that’s being driven uninsured. Any vehicle seized under these powers will only be released on payment of the fixed penalty and must show a valid insurance certificate. The vehicle will only be released to the registered keeper of the vehicle or, if there's no registered keeper, to the person appearing to be the owner. The police can dispose of vehicles not claimed within a set time.

The Road Safety Act 2006 makes provision for harsher sentences for those who kill or are involved in accidents while driving uninsured.

 

Uninsured driving : Directgov - Motoring

 

You will get a fine also, the amount of this depends on who you get on the day I found.

 

while what people say about being allowed to have points on the license when you pass, this is correct... but the courts usually issue a ban under totting up. I have found points are issued usually when people do not even have a provisional license, so are added onto record to commence at the date of applying for a license.... so in effect had nothing to lose.

 

hope that helps... sorry it looks bleak

[crem]

 

What you will get is a totting up disqualification,

why? 6 points does not equate to a ban either on a full licence nor a provisional.

 

and this endorsement will carry over after the end of the disqualification onto the full license should you pass once the disqual ends.

true the endorsement carries over onto your full licence. I still see no reason why you have assumed there will be a disqualification.

 

The disqualification will be issued for no insurance as this carries 6 points/ban.

Again, you maintain there will be a disqualification. Why? The law may allow for the possibility of a ban, but it is neither mandatory, nor applied frequently.

 

While the quote below says they can ban, in my experience they do and always have done when at court unless your life/career depends on the use of the car

Maybe in your experience, but that haasn't been the case in mine so lets leave it open as a "may ban" just like the law says.

 

 

 

Uninsured driving : Directgov - Motoring

 

You will get a fine also, the amount of this depends on who you get on the day I found.

 

while what people say about being allowed to have points on the license when you pass, this is correct... but the courts usually issue a ban under totting up.

How can they issue a ban under "totting up" when the totting up is less than 12 points?

 

I have found points are issued usually when people do not even have a provisional license, so are added onto record to commence at the date of applying for a license.... so in effect had nothing to lose.

True. Points can, and are, added to your DVLA record even if you haven't yet applied for a licence. I occasionally have new learner drivers starting at 17yo with points on their licence for things like being caught riding a moped when they were 15 or somethign similar.

 

..

[lamma]

http://www.sentencing-guidelines.gov.uk/docs/magistrates_court_sentencing_guidelines_update.pdf

[2ltr16valve]

..

 

 

firstly, you can be BANNED at ANY point on a Provisional license !

 

I was banned THREE times on a provisional, because I was sleeping rough in my car that I could not afford to run... purely because I had keys and was on public land I got done each and every time !

 

So "in your experience" you were lucky !

 

12 points is irrelevant to a provisional license ! I was given what was a TT99 at the time for exceeding 6 points on a provisional.... 6 points for no insurance that are compulsory ! thus a ban will follow

 

Believe what you like, could not give a rats back end !!

 

I will sit here and laugh my arse off when the OP comes back and confirms what I have put above.

 

NO that does not read I will laugh at the OP... its a royal pain in the back end losing your liberty to drive ! and really do hope that you get a nice judge who has 3 or 4 young partners to keep him smiling....

 

Good luck (fingers crossed for ya)

 

 

 

Edit:

 

From pdf link of magistrates sentence

 

Triable only summarily: Maximum: Level 5 fine

Must endorse and may disqualify. If no disqualification, impose 6-8 points – see notes below.

 

Offence seriousness (culpability and harm)

A. Identify the appropriate starting point

Starting points based on first time offender pleading not guilty

Examples of nature of activity Starting point Range

Using a motor vehicle on a road or other public place

without insurance

Band C fine Band C fine

6 points – 12 months disqualification –

see notes below

 

Offence seriousness (culpability and harm)

 

B. Consider the effect of aggravating and mitigating factors

(other than those within examples above)

 

Common aggravating and mitigating factors are identified in the pullout card –

the following may be particularly relevant but these lists are not exhaustive

Factors indicating higher culpability

1. Never passed test

2. Gave false details

3. Driving LGV, HGV, PSV etc.

4. Driving for hire or reward

5. Evidence of sustained uninsured use

 

Factor indicating greater degree of harm

1. Involved in accident

2. Accident resulting in injury

 

Factors indicating lower culpability

1. Responsibility for providing insurance rests with another

2. Genuine misunderstanding

3. Recent failure to renew or failure to transfer vehicle details

where insurance was in existence

4. Vehicle not being driven

 

Form a preliminary view of the appropriate sentence,

then consider offender mitigation

Common factors are identified in the pullout card

Consider a reduction for guilty plea

Consider ancillary orders

Refer to pages 168-174 for guidance on available ancillary orders

Decide sentence

Give reasons

 

Notes

Consider range from 7 points – 2 months disqualification where vehicle was being driven and no evidence that

the offender has held insurance.

Consider disqualification of 6 – 12 months if evidence of sustained uninsured use and/or involvement in accident.

Edited February 13, 2010 by 2ltr16valve

[welshperson3]

My son drove his girl Friends car no insurance but full license.

 

result he gets 4 month ban and £320 fine

 

girlfriend was in the car to

 

result 2 month ban and £320 fine for letting him drive

 

he got 2 weeks left to get his licence back

[2ltr16valve]

My son drove his girl Friends car no insurance but full license.

 

result he gets 4 month ban and £320 fine

 

girlfriend was in the car to

 

result 2 month ban and £320 fine for letting him drive

 

 

Daft aint it bud, while I agree with a ban for no insurance.... they do go over the top sometimes !

lucky was only 4 month ban, I got 3 months, then 6 months, then 12 months... then got another 12 months that run along side the previous one as I did insure but ended up void ! :@

 

 

Now proud to say my license is CLEAN and staying that way

[sorrylittlelot]

6 points

 

£255 fine

[ClampingKing]

So, when you pass your test you cannot get ANY more points within 2 years of passing or your license will be revoked (not the same as banned). It means you would have to apply for another provisional and take both tests again.

[kwaks]

6 points

 

£255 fine

 

As a matter of interest, did they do you for the insurance or the licence?

 

 

I would suspect the licence as proving the insurance would be trickier.

[sorrylittlelot]

Hi very long story cut short

 

- in July i was pulled for driving uninsured on way to hospital after my partner had been rushed in after going into premature labour.

 

We had an extremley dificult pregnancy with my other half being in and out of hospital and it came to a 50-50 chance for the baby.

 

The car had been insured but was cancelled as we missed a payment and didnt get the letter for over a week as my partner was in hosptal

so not getting post (we dont live together)

 

when the letter was recieved i parked the car in my private off road garage and it remained there until the day i as pulled.

 

son the day i made a rash decision and drove uninsured towads the hospital as in my eyes it was an emergency as we did not know if the baby would survive..

 

i was pulled over and the police told me i was been reported and told me to drive home and leave car off road.

 

i did that, and my daughter was born a few hour later.

 

I am aware i shall be punished and i agree i should be.

 

I am having difficulty in whether or not to plead mitigating circumstances and ask for a short term ban

rather than 6 points as this would result in my licence been revoked under the new drivers act.

 

I would lose my job as i am a driver and it would also cause huge problems for my family as i have two other children,

one who is disabled and uses a wheelchair very often,

she has specialist appointments monthly in a city two hours away which i need to drive her to as public transport is a nightmare.

 

it is a 3 hour train journey each way and i have to take both kids out of school for the day to attend

as they are always around 9am appointments and rush hour trains and wheelchairs dont mix.

 

losing my newly got job would also cause grave financial hardship as JSA plus housing benefit does not cover my rent let alone bills and living costs.

 

can anybody advise me as to what to write in my letter to court

(which i shall post at court on my way to work at 5am in the morning as my hearing is at 12.45 and i cannot get time away from work)

 

i want to beg the court to give me a short term ban rather than the points that will revoke my licence

or if that is impossible ask them to not hit me with the double whammy of banning me as well.

 

i enclose a copy of my driving license (can anybody tell me what I000 means under the other section of endorsments?)

Edited November 8, 2012 by MARTIN3030
see below

[MARTIN3030]

You seem to have the jist of whats required in the letter.

At the end of the day,its impossible to predict how the Court will pass down sentence.

[MARTIN3030]

Btw have removed the attachment since it opens up your PB account to give free access to everything else in there.

[sorrylittlelot]

i just dont know what to say, i wrote a letter but its 5 pages long!

do i ask for a short term ban instead of points (if so on hwat grounds)

 

confused.

[sorrylittlelot]

oh right thanks lol

[dx100uk]

IMHO i would not 'ask' for anything.

 

thats for the judge to decide

 

you have 'good' mitigating circumstances

 

it would IMHO be better to deliver a short written 'speech' yourself

in court when asked too.

 

in simple terms, without any waffle!

 

explain [as you have above]

 

your story, and explain how 'points' would , sadly, introduce further hardship to your disabled offspring

should you receive points as well.

 

judges ARE human, and in your case

 

even though you SHOULD have been 'on top' of your finances,

due to the possible medical complications involving the imminent birth & your worries,, you took your eyes off the situation

 

dx

[Bandit127]

If they are thinking about banning you, they will adjourn and you will be required to attend the next hearing with license in hand.

 

This does not mean they will ban you, just that it is an option.

[Yukiko]

I hate to say it, but if you've been driving less than two years, the new drivers act is enforced by the DVLA and you have only the smallest chance of getting off lightly. I lost my license and my job, regardless of me being the only breadwinner in the house at the time of sentance. But, i got 9 points, not 6.

 

I don't know if 6 and below is acceptable under new drivers, or if it's 6 and over... ???