Aviva Pension

[John Joseph Collins]

Please Help I am very new to forums and do no if this Thread is in the correct place. What does CAG stand for ?

 

I was due a pension from Aviva 16 months ago, but as I had made a complaint to the Ombudsman about the way in which Aviva had operated during the time I had invested my "bought out option" with them and what their Retirement Illustration offer was then, I have not been able to receive that pension because it was in the hands of the Ombudsman.

 

My original complaint to the Ombudsman was that for the final eleven years of the policy with Aviva they basically froze the interest given each year on the policy, saying that because of poor market conditions the interest for that year would be 0%, but that the final bonuses would still hopefully be possible.

 

I went on believing that nothing could be wrong as I assumed that as they had not mentioned anywhere in all their communications with me over those years that I had not surpassed the GMP value that I would not be granted all the options that were originally offered to me at the beginning of the policy.

 

The policy had a GMP value (Guaranteed Minimum Pension) of over £100,000, which they had conveniently not mentioned until their final letter to me in August 2011.

 

In this letter they for the first also mentioned that they had forgotten to in include final bonuses in their original offer, and that they had also sent me £150 for international telephone calls made by me during the initial period of trying to resolve these queries with them, which they again had conveniently mentioned knowing now that the Ombudsman was now involved.

 

In this letter they had also adjusted the Yearly Pension payment by an increase of £59, which at the time I thought was due to them omitting to include the final bonuses in their original quote.

 

But it was only when I had received their latest illustration did I eventually understand what they were doing. (This I will mention in the next paragraph).

 

To return to the GMP value and what it means or what I found out it means during my discussions with many different Aviva employees after they had sent me their original Illustration was that if you do not reach this magical GMP value you were not entitled to there original offer, which meant that you would loose rights to the options that were otherwise available, i.e. no yearly increase due to RPI; no tax free cash sum; no enhanced benefits and no guaranteed period.

 

What I continue to wonder, but cannot prove, is if the policy had been deliberately kept frozen so that I couldn’t get the options which were otherwise available to me. Especially when you check the inflation rate for those years and understand that things were not that bad in the financial markets and that Aviva during this period was handing out large sums to their top management.

 

I have just received from Aviva there latest Retirement Illustration and again they are still trying to overcome their pay commitment to me for the last 16 months by making out that I have agreed to have my pension deferred and yet I have signed no papers agreeing that I wanted this to happen.

 

This deferred payment increase works out that it would take me nearly 14 years to retrieve the back dated payment, which is due to me. The reason why I could work out what they had done was because of having received their 2nd Illustration in August 2011. It was quite easy then to work out the maths and see that it wasn’t the Final Bonuses that had increased my Yearly Pension then by £59 but they had already deferred it.

 

First of all they should have asked me if I wanted my pension deferred, (who in their right mind would do that, and have to wait so long to retrieve it). I’m sure you would agree that nobody has the hindsight to understand how long he or she have left on this earth.

 

Secondly if anybody has dealt with the Ombudsman they will understand that due their heavy workload it takes time for each complaint to be resolved whether the result is positive or negative and surely I cannot be penalized for that.

 

Unfortunately the Ombudsman could not find any fault with Aviva. I even tried phoning Aviva yesterday (now you have to imagine that this is an International call and that I did explain this to the person that I eventually got to talk to), well first of all it took over ten minutes for anyone to answer, the usual thing you have to wait for an operator to become available.

 

I was then passed from one person then the next, then I was told to wait as I had asked to speak to the person who had sent me the letter in August 2011. The woman came back said that he no longer worked in that office, and so I tried the explain what I was phoning for, she then said again to wait while she speak to the persons who had drawn up the Retirement Illustration (now you can imagine my frustration as I’m paying for the phone call, nearly 30 minutes had passed) when she came back again she started to blind me with words that I really did not understand but gist of which was that Aviva had sent me a letter as early as 2010 and if I hadn’t replied to that letter it was assumed by them that I wanted deferment.

 

I told her that I have never received this letter and that in any case if the 1st Illustration was only sent to me in May of 2011 how on earth would I agree to something I haven’t seen.

 

By this time I must admit I was getting a little angry and so she tried to pass me again to some other person and that’s when I suggested she should get that person to ring me back as I didn’t want to loose anymore money on the phone call.

 

She said that it could take as much as 48 hours for somebody to come back to me. This was agreed and so I hung-up.

 

I was so frustrated after that that I called out for help on the Internet and this site was the first that I checked. It said that there were many complaints against Aviva and so I wondered if there was anybody out there who knows where I stand.

 

I also wondered why, if there were so many complaints against this company, why there is not someone in government trying to control or amend what these large companies are doing. Surely there has to be something that can be done to help individuals’.

 

I believe that the government is again trying to encourage people to take out these “bought out pension options”, as it was when I left my company in 1988, and I bet you that Aviva will be one of the first companies to encourage people to join their pension schemes. I just wonder what these people will have to face maybe in 20-30 years from now.

 

Finally I’m sorry for anybody who may read this as it is very long but then I wasn’t sure how else to tell it. I just hope and pray that if there is nothing I can do, then at least some that do read it will think twice before signing up with these big companies that seem to have all the answers and little mercy for those who have had their money tied up with them for many years, i.e. they take it, they make use of it and then when it’s time for you to want to use it------AH BUT!!!

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I'll move this to the insurance and pensions forum for specialist help and leave you a short term redirect here.

 

My best, HB

[honeybee13]

Me again. The name of CAG is at the top left hand side of this screen.

 

Am I right in thinking that you have a Section 32 buy out policy with what was Norwich Union please? And that you have now reached the pension age for the policy that you took out?

 

I'll see if I can get you some help, but this is a specialist area. Also if the ombudsman has sided with Aviva, I'm not sure what else can be done.

 

HB

[honeybee13]

PS I've put in a few paragraphs to try to make it easier for people to read your question.

 

HB

[rennuz]

In my experience with dealing with Aviva and other companies in such situations is that the schemes are so complicated that they don't understand them themselves. And you need to find that one person who does understand it at Aviva and really get advice from your own personal pensions specialist who can deal with it for you.

 

I have plenty of experience in pensions and its quite hard to understand a few of the points made and For me to give you a view would need for me to ask a few specific questions on your plan. This would then help me or anybody giving a view a place to start so they can understand where you are coming from.

 

You then need to tell us what you hoped the plan was going to achieve and what it now is achieving. Also a GMP on any pension is great so more info on this would be useful so that you can compare it to say the open market.

[citizenB]

Can I just ask if the Ombudsman decision was definitely an "ombudsman" and not the first stage adjudicator ? If this is the case then you can ask for your case to be moved upwards for further review by the Ombudsman proper ! The only downside is that it will indeed take more time.

[citizenB]

Aviva have always had a pretty dreadful reputation. You are probably already aware that they are a French company and they took over Norwich Union.

 

They were obliged as part of the initial set up to ask about deferment. Could perhaps a box have been ticked at that time.

 

Or could it be, and apparently this is one of Aviva's little tricks .. written to you asking about deferment.. but wording it in such a way, that if you DIDNT respond to their letter, then they would automatically assume that you were going to.

 

I understood that all Contracted Pension holders were entitled to take a tax free lump sum of up to 30% - although the figure did have a ceiling. Unless the terms and conditions were changed.

 

They did have the right to freeze or reduce bonuses and final bonuses were concessionary.

 

IMHO, it might be worth you sending a Subject Access Request to Aviva, unless you have already done this. Obtain all the information in respect of this product.

[John Joseph Collins]

Hello everyone,

I just want to say thanks to everyone and try to answer all the questions that were asked. Yes it was a 32 plan. I left my employment in England in October 1987 but did not start my pension with Norwich Union until 11th April 1988. I say this because during my dealings with the Ombudsman Adjudicator it was highlighted that because I left my employment in 1987 the laws towards the entitled options that were originally offered would not be given as the laws changed in April 1988, and so I wasn’t entitled to them, but as this wasn’t my case as it took NU until the above date to arrange the starting date I thought that I had a case. This I continued to bring up with them but eventually it fizzled out as not important.

 

 

Yes a GMP policy is important if you really feel the financial markets have done so badly that the company your dealing with has to suffer as well. But my feeling is that Aviva and all the banks during this time had to tighten there belts but I do not believe any of the banks during the term 2000-2011 have ever given 0% on investors money. My main argument is if this money was frozen all this time how on earth would it ever reach the GMP value.

 

 

Yes I did eventually get my case seen by the Financial Ombudsman and as I said the decision was past in favour of Aviva.

 

 

I have accepted that decision because I have no money to fight, but just feel it worth passing on in case there were others like me that really feel some type of fraud has been carried out.

 

 

My real complaint now is that they are once again trying something, which I really do think is dishonest. This is about Deferring Payments. I have never received any letter asking me to tick or box or even mentioning deferment. I have never sent them any letters apart from letters of complaint since I received their first Illustration in May 2011. I have kept all there letters since this time and there doesn’t appear anything written about deferment. If they have sent me anything it certainly didn’t arrive here. Surely in any case they cannot just assumed some thing without a signature from the person involved.

JJC

Edited November 2, 2012 by citizenB
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[rennuz]

The deferment they did would have been done if they didn't hear from you. I.e they can't set up your scheme and pay it if they don't hear from you, therefore they defer it.

 

Is this what you are saying are you now annoyed they have deferred it? Did you get in contact with them asking for the payments? If not why not?

[John Joseph Collins]

Reply to Rennuz

 

I have never replied to Aviva for payment because as there was an on going complaint with them and the Ombudsman, nothing with them was settled and because of that, I presumed as Aviva had never mentioned anything to do with deferment, that they would naturally move my pension sideways until the Ombudsman's decision. As this took 16 months to resolve, why would I think after all this time that they would not back date it?

I spoke to a lady on Friday from Aviva, who said that they had sent me a letter in December 2010 seven months prior to my Pension date and 4 months prior to the first Retirement Illustration, mentioning something about deferment, but I never received that letter. Now it does seem very strange that they should do this if I hadn't queried anything about my pension until I received the first illustration. Do they have so many complaints about pensions that they automatically send this letter?

Anyway the lady that I spoke to, is having to speak to someone further up the chain. I told her that I never receive a letter from them and I certain didn't sign to agree to deferment. She is coming back to me on Monday or Tuesday.

[rennuz]

Ok, well the deferment seems standard and them deferring it as they didnt hear from you (although I understand you didnt hear from them either) is exactly what I would expect, them also sending a letter to you 7 months prior is what they do. Why do you think them sending this letter is strange, as you mention they do it as they may have so many complaints, sorry what do you mean?

 

As it stands from what I can see they seem to be doing everything I expect but its unfortunate that you didnt receive a letter. The deferment and the back dating of it is calculated by them and sometimes it makes sense to defer and sometimes not, whether it can be backdated is down to the scheme and its never cut and dry.

 

It would be useful to find out what your complaint was about so that I can give you an idea. Then really you are going to have to get somebody to look thorugh the scheme terms to get specific answers.

 

In all honesty it sounds like you have things sorted out by getting to speak to the right person at Aviva, paying for a professional person to look at it could be a useful exercise so that you make the right decision about deferring or not.

[Old Cogger]

New it had to be a section 32 plan soon as I saw the heading, been there i.e. no increases for so many years last on 1992 if I remember correctly, the plan total held at a certain figure from there onwards till I claimed my pension, it was treated differently it seems as per a clause on transfer from old Company scheme, they ended up paying more than the plan so called worth, 1st I heard then was from the Dept works & pensions who told me to make sure the sum of£xxx.00 per month was the least figure they pay out, and low and behold they were smack on with the minimum figure, ( ex Norwich Union Policy as well) as I remember Norwich Union were the 1 st Insurance Company to freeze interest payment in early 1990s. we were all conned on the transfer 32 buy out. Mine was from 1988ish.

[Harry May]

Just found this about someone who had won against Aviva about section 32 pension.

 

http://boards.thisismoney.co.uk/savings-investing-pensions/36507.htm

 

Regards

 

Harry May