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    • Dear All,   BN - Thank you for your comments.    My wife had prepared the relevant notice to the court and rather than spending time redacting I am sending it as PM to the contributors to this thread. It covers everything we have been discussing and is in line with  your comments and our discussions.   For the benefit of readers oif CAG I will redact and post it later as we have pressing family medical matters to attend to.    Warm regards BF  
    • Maybe have a third chamber, The Peoples' House 😃
    • Thanks for the images. It's shocking. This more than ever reinforces my view that you should take this to court. The number of people they must be fobbing off with this three months story is incredible – and they need pulling into line. If you simply complain to the CEO then they may sort out your problems – but the rest of it will go on as usual. They need something very serious here. In fact, I would think about suing them for £200 because I think that once they realise about the mistake they are making, they will be extremely anxious not to go to court. On the basis of this, I'm afraid I don't think I would even alert the CEO. I would send a letter of claim which will probably simply be seen by drones – and then issue the papers. I think you have an easy win on this case. Also, once they realise that they are dealing with a court case, they will look at the whole situation more carefully and they will probably sort out all of the problems at the same time. If they don't, then these two have laid down your marker and they will know that you're not mucking around and they will take you seriously.
    • These are the two incidents from Virgin Chat where their Live chat has informed me of the 'only 3 months' decision.... 15 April was the date they acknowledged receipt of my SAR. Apparently anything from before that date can't be included!
    • You could try both routes at the same time. Send your letter of claim by email to the CEO email address. Confirmed by letter. That way you have communicated with the CEO – but given a very definite deadline and a very definite promise as to what will happen if they don't comply. Then on day 15 sent the claim. Don't make a threat of legal action if you don't intend to carry it out. Don't bluff – but it is very easy to do
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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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How do these companies get away with treating their employees like this?

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A relative was working in a seasonal job on a "fixed salary" with a hint that he may be able to stay over the winter. He put in over ninety hours overtime in two weeks but as he "was on a fixed salary" he was not entitled to overtime. He had a few days off, supposedly in lieu of overtime worked but instead his pay was deducted for the days he did not work. When he queried this he was told not to cause any problems as this would impact on the possibility of being retained at the end of the season.

He was kept dangling all season and thought that he would be staying on but has now received a one week notice to leave at the end of the season.

What are his rights regarding the overtime payments - I think that if all his hours and pay were totalled he would not have received even the minimum wage although this is something that I would have to check with him.

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Thanks for your reply. No, he can't prove the hours in writing most of the other people working there could confirm it - except his immediate supervisor who doesn't want anyone to think that he made a mistake. They just keep quoting that he doesn't get overtime as he is on a salary but when he gets a day off they don't pay him - so they just seem to work on what is best for them. So he has worked, as an engineer, for around £3 an hour - unbelieveable that these companies can get away with it.

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Not sure about a contract - think it was just a simple letter offering him the job but will check myself later on tonight and get back on here. Have been checking online the reviews this company has and it really is disgraceful - they don't treat the customers any better than the staff.

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Just found out now that they led him to believe he would be staying on after the end of the season but he's now found out that he has to leave and with only two days' notice.

I have yet to look at any contract.

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Has he taken any paid holiday in the time he has worked there?


He might struggle to prove that pay was due for overtime, but should certainly hit them with a claim for accrued holiday pay if they try to wriggle out of that as well!!

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No, he hasn't had any paid holiday. Any days off have been deducted from his pay. When he queried the overtime he was told that the hours would even out over the winter period. However, when everyone else got their letters giving them a week's notice to terminate their employment he didn't get one, so yes, when all the hours are totalled he was paid far less than the minimum wage. He recieved only..

two days notice because the person that was supposed to give him his letter was away. Unbelieveable what these companies get away with and the above is only the tip of the iceberg.

The company are telling the staff that they will receive a bonus at the end of the season as long as they stay until the end - it is only holiday to which they are entitled.

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If he has been paid below the minimum wage he can make a claim in the employment tribunal for wages due at any time during the contract within 3 months of the date of termination of employment.


Another possibility may be to bring a claim for unlawful deductions from wages (s13 Employment Rights Act 1996) for the days when his pay was deducted. It seems to me that you are saying his employer allowed him to take Time Off in Lieu for some of the overtime worked but then deducted pay for the days he took off. He might want to try claiming his full pay for those days.


Problem with this is time limits - claim needs to be made within 3 months of the date when the money for those days was "properly payable". This would be the pay day when he should have been paid for those days off in lieu. If there was a series of such days you try claiming for all of those days within 3 months of the last one.


It might also be possible to bring this claim as a contractual claim for which the time limit is to bring the claim within 3 months of termination of the contract- particularly if his agreement to work such large amounts of overtime was obtained with a promise he could take time off in lieu.


So in the tribunal claim he would specify the days for which he was not paid

Identify the basis of the agreement with the employer to pay him for these days (who agreed this, what did they say, what did he say)

Identify the sums that were deducted/ the sums that he was entitled to be paid and has not been paid

State that this is an unlawful deduction from pay under s 13 ERA and also a breach of contract

And ask for an order that the employer pays these sums.



Finally make sure he claims for any holiday pay in lieu outstanding at the end of the contract, and any notice money due.


Here is a handy link to information about minimum entitlement to holiday pay.




there is a tool which can help calculate entitlement pro rata and for workers who work different numbers of days per week.


I am assuming his contract of employment is not more generous than his statutory rights. For a 5 day a week worker the statutory entitlement is 28 days a year (if you are a worker who gets bank holidays this is equal to 8 bank/public holidays and 4 weeks a year). If you work only part of a year you have to pro rata the entitlement.


Regulation 14 of the Working Time Regulations gives an entitlement to pay in lieu of holiday on termination of employment. A tribunal claim for holiday pay pursuant to Regulation 14 should be brought within 3 months of termination. State that he was entitled to x days but took only y days paid annual leave during his period of employment and therefore is owed holiday pay at ££ per day for (x-y) days.

Edited by RosaofEdge
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