2 NHS contracts, same trust, redundant from 1 contract, redundancy entitlements?

[TAGGIL]

Hi,

I wonder if anyone can help.

 

I have two contracts with the same employer.

 

Its an NHS Foundation Trust.

 

I work for two separate services within the same trust.

 

Contract One

full time 37.5h/r/w and

contract two

a part time role which is 4.5 h/p/w.

 

I am being made redundant from contract 2, being formally told tomorrow at a meeting.

 

The thing that no one seems to be able to answer including some people i have asked in HR and the union i am in is..

 

..am i still entitled to some redundancy payout?

 

The responses have varied from i have no idea, ask HR who have said ask your union..

. who have said ooh this is a tricky one ??

 

and advised me to have a look on google..

 

I think the issue is that although i will be made redundant from contract 2,

i still have employment within the same trust on contract 1

although it is for a completely different service and is unaffected by these changes.

 

I have been working in contract 2 since 2008 on a permanent contract and prior to that from 2006 on a 'bank'/casual work contract.

 

Can anyone help/advise please and thank you in anticipation.

Taggil

[Sidewinder]

Just to clarify - do you have two separate 'identities', ie separate wage payments, payroll numbers etc, or do you receive one wage for the two roles combined?

[TAGGIL]

Just to clarify - do you have two separate 'identities', ie separate wage payments, payroll numbers etc, or do you receive one wage for the two roles combined?

 

hi, yes separate wages slips, separate paypoints, two bosses, the payroll number is eg 12345 for my main and then 12345-2 for the second part time contract. i am on different banding for the jobs, for my f/t i am a Band 3 and for the part time role a Band 2, not sure if that helps ??

 

the service has been re-designed in order to removed 15 x part time roles to be replaced with 9 part time roles, which i was offered to apply for but the lowest number of hours you can work is 12 in the new structure, and i cant do another 12 hours on top of my 37.5..... i also do some adhoc bank/casual work which again is another contract but like my full time isnt affected.

[Sidewinder]

No doubt Becky or somebody similarly better qualified than I will no doubt be able to clarify in due course, but I would say that in that case one of your positions is to become redundant and is sufficiently divorced from your other role that you should be entitled to normal redundancy arrangements.

[becky2585]

This is quite an unusual situation and not one I think I've come across before!

 

I would suggest that if you are say, working as a receptionist for a few hours a week at Hospital A, but then your "main" job was working as a Nurse at Hospital B, they would be sufficiently different to mean a redundancy payment should be made.

 

Looking at the law literally, you are an employee who has been made redundant from their role and dismissed, so that should invoke the right to redundancy pay. Your employer can't have it both ways - if they simply take the contract away and argue that you remain an employee and therefore are not redundant, they'd be liable for the difference in your wages by altering your contract without consent.

 

If you were working two rules at the same hospital, for example, that could muddy the waters. If you were made redundant, I'm not sure for example if you'd have jurisdiction to claim unfair dismissal as there was no break in employment... Although I suppose technically you could sue on the basis of the cessation of the second contract for the difference in wages, as above.

 

The employer also has a duty to find alternative work for you - so what if they offered to increase your hours in your main role to make up the difference? If you then unreasonably refused, you'd lose the redundancy payment.

 

In short, I'm actually not sure of the answer - just a gut feeling, but if they didn't pay it (which I would suggest would be a very small amount in any event) I would take it to a Tribunal and let them decide. It's a strange situation indeed!

[becky2585]

135 The right.

 

(1)An employer shall pay a redundancy payment to any employee of his if the employee—

 

(a)is dismissed by the employer by reason of redundancy, or

 

(b)is eligible for a redundancy payment by reason of being laid off or kept on short-time.

 

From the Employment Rights Act.

 

The wording of the statute is interesting - redundancy payments are due if an employee is "dismissed by reason of redundancy" rather than "having their contract terminated by reason of redundancy". The ERA then states that a dismissal occurs where "the contract under which he is employed is terminated by the employer (whether with or without notice)".

 

So I suppose yes, you're entitled to redundancy pay, provided that the two roles are completely independent.

Edited October 31, 2012 by becky2585

[jackieandwayne]

This happened to a colleague of mine many years ago. He worked for two depts of the local authority, both part time jobs, all separate payslips etc. He was made redundant from one position, and then the other department offered him a full time role, which he was pleased to take. However, when he looked for his redundancy pay from the other job, they told him to go swing. So he got the Union involved - and he won! He got all the redundancy he was due from the other job, which was a great bonus for him, whilst starting out in the other job in full time.

 

Have you spoken to your Union about this? I would.

[mariefab]

I believe that you should be entitled to redundancy pay (also notice pay and any accrued untaken holiday entitlement).

 

After all, you would certainly expect it if they were making your other role redundant.

[borisbeaver]

hi, yes separate wages slips, separate paypoints, two bosses, the payroll number is eg 12345 for my main and then 12345-2 for the second part time contract. i am on different banding for the jobs, for my f/t i am a Band 3 and for the part time role a Band 2, not sure if that helps ??

 

the service has been re-designed in order to removed 15 x part time roles to be replaced with 9 part time roles, which i was offered to apply for but the lowest number of hours you can work is 12 in the new structure, and i cant do another 12 hours on top of my 37.5..... i also do some adhoc bank/casual work which again is another contract but like my full time isnt affected.

Being an ESR admin, what you have described here is two assignments. You have an employee number. If you only have one assignment, a primary one, then the assignment number is the same as the employee number. Subsequent assignments have a -# suffix, e.g. -1, -2, etc. An assignment has a category; Permanent, Fixed Term Temp, Bank, Honourary etc. Do you know what category your redundant post is in?