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    • Hi All, before I start I know there are similar threads of the topic I am raising, and each, of course, has its own unique scenario, which may benefit others. My case is as follows: 1. I saw a gumtree ad on the 16th of Oct 2020 for a Mercedes E220 CDI, priced at 7,500 2. I called the seller and said I will come over on the 17th of Oct 2020 to view. 3. On the 17th of Oct 2020 I went to his place where he is working and viewed the car. He is working for a major car rental company. I checked the car and of course asked the normal things to ask e.g. any insurance write-offs, loans, accidents, etc. The seller said the car is clean etc.no loan, he had a loan but all is paid off etc. and he has the papers. 4. I negotiated the car price to 6,800 because the rims were showing some signs of damage, the rear light had a small burst, cosmetics, etc. I checked all but did not see any sign of damage to the car (it's a black car, the car was a bit dirty, and the sun was already setting in) 5. We agreed on 6,800 and decided to purchase the car. We went into his office, where I paid cash, and also got a Car Sales Invoice with all details of the seller, and a V5C green slip 6. I purchased car insurance and drove off. I asked him about Road Tax and he said Road tax is paid so I have not to worry, just need car insurance. 7. On 18th of Oct 2020 I cleaned the car interior because it was really dirty inside - it took me a few hours so decided to clean the exterior the next day 8. On the 19th of Oct 2020 I went to clean the exterior and after the car was clean I noticed some parts were resprayed. I became a bit suspicious; so on the 19th of Oct 2020 in the eve, I went on the internet and run an HPI check. The outcome from the HPI did not show any accidents, insurance write-off but an outstanding Loan with Moneybarn. At this point, I thought maybe the database is not updated, etc. 9. On the 20th of Oct 2020, morning, things were going through my mind; the seller said the car is clean, no issues, no loan since he settled all etc. but the HPI reports say there is still some outstanding loan. So what I did, I called Moneybarn, and explained the situation, and gave them the contract number as well (since it was displayed on the HPI report). They said they will send me a form by email, but they cannot share any information due to Data Protection (GDPR). fair enough I thought, but what made me boil, they said they OWN the car! So, I took the car and drove to the seller where he is working. I confronted him. He said don't worry, I will handle it, he has no time, he is very busy and bla bla bla. I said what reasons do I have to trust you, you lied, and now you say you still have a debt, etc. So I said I will not leave until he has settled the debt, or repay me my money. I also asked what is outstanding, he said around 7,000. Well, since I confronted him at his workplace he may have felt the heat, he assured he will settle all soon, I said sorry, I need a date, so I said you will settle the debt with Moneybarn by 23 Oct 2020, if not, you will refund me my money. He said Ok he will do it, so I said, since I don't trust you, you will sign a piece of paper, and sign it. On the paper, he wrote "I will clear the debt for the Mercedes by Friday" and signed it. I said I am not happy and added the debt details with contract number, and also a clause that if he fails to settle the debt with Moneybarn by Friday the 23rd of Oct 2020, he will refund me my money, 6,800, and sales of the car Mercedes, license plate, will be void. Also, I said to put an initial on each amendment I made with signature. He did, and I left. 10. On 22 Oct I sent him a message, to remind him to settle the debt by Friday 23 Oct 2020 noontime and also I outlined some legal jargon I had to sent that I received from citizensadvice. 11. On 23 Oct, morning time, I received a message from the seller, he said he will not/cannot refund me the money, not to visit him at his office or place, and that he feels threatened by me. 12. Now, the dilemma/headache; a). I received the form from Moneybarn on the 20th of Oct 2020 and I have to send it back within 7 days b). the seller send me a message he will not refund the money c). is the seller holding the title with Moneybarn or did he also buy and not knowing there is an outstanding loan on it d). did he sent the V5C to DVLA since I have the green slip? e). Shall I fill in the form and sent it to Moneybarn? f). If Moneybarn has all my details they may send someone to repossess the car? 13. I decided, I will not undertake anything yet, because my mind said, go there, confront him, park the car in front of the company since I purchased it there and signed all paperwork in their office, they will call the police, the police will come and surely will not do anything but will force me to remove the car and park somewhere else, record all on camera, take all evidence, sent to Moneybarn and at the same time to the seller's employer (when I asked him to sign a letter he will settle the debt by Friday 23rd of Oct 2020, he used a paper of the car rental company, and on the back, the logo of the rental company is displayed clearly and he may have acted on behalf of the company to sell me the car, after all, I don't know if he holds the title with Moneybarn - well, this is an excuse for me to even sue the car rental company, or blacklist him with the company he is working for since it seems he is some type of manager there and he may have acted in the capacity as a sales person to sell the car to me on behalf the company....). 14. So on the 23rd of Oct 2020, I didn't do anything like described under 13....it's not my style as such I called AWH solicitors, explained all, and they said one person is specialized in dealing with such cases and will call me back after studying my case and inform me if it is something they can fight or not. So they will call me Monday the 26th of Oct 2020. I also said I want to go now and confront the seller, but she said better wait till Monday, and if they can fight the case, they will tell me the next course of action - but my funds are limited and cannot afford a lengthy battle, because if no case against Moneybarn means I will have to sue the seller to the court which will cost me. The car has comprehensive insurance and with all this saga I added on the 20th of Oct 2020 also legal insurance on top. Lengthy story, but I am trying to be as detailed as I can, and yes I should have done an HPI before buying the car, but I am from Holland and car sales work there a bit different, and this is my first time I buy from a private seller. Well, once I have sent the form to Moneybarn, I will park the car in a garage, and at this stage, I am renting a room in a house (there is one more tenant). Since I am from Holland, I am planning a trip within 2 weeks to visit my family and I will drive down with the car and in the meanwhile wait if the solicitor can be of any help. I need some advice though, I am still planning to drive down to the seller on Tuesday after I talked with the solicitor, park the car in front of the company, and confront the seller, and try to record all. I will also try to make him sign a letter that I purchased the car in good faith from him (regardless if he holds the title with Moneybarn or not but at least I purchased in good faith from him). Evidence that I have: 1. Car sales invoice 2. Paper that I made him sign 3. Gumtree ad; I could retract this from google history, but the original add removed from gumtree. At least I can show it was advertised 4. I tried to create a history of past owners, total owners including me are 5. It seems the car was also posted on gumtree before by a company in Essex (I saw on google). The reason for doing this, it is very likely that the seller purchased the car from someone else with an outstanding loan. Since then I read a lot on the internet, so please any advice is welcome to pursue my case, I paid a lot and at least I want my money back. Also what I read so far, Moneybarn is not easy to deal with...thanks in advance for any advice I can use for my case.
    • Hi   I think you need to check not just the serial number but what Meter Point Reference Number (MPRN) as the MPRN is what is registered and energy supplier go off as well as the serial number.   So you need to see what the MPRN is as well as the energy supplier it is registered with.   If you look at this Ofgem link: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/connections-and-moving-home/who-my-gas-or-electricity-supplier   In the above link to do this check it gives a link to:   Find My Supplier: https://www.findmysupplier.energy/webapp/index.html (note you may have to complete a captcha, then input your postcode only and click find my address, when the list comes up click on your exact address, you will then see you actual MPRN and the energy supplier linked to your address)   With the above make sure and take the details of the MPRN and the Energy Supplier, better still take a screenshot/pdf the webpage.   Please let use know if on doing the above it matches your current supplier?  
    • I had exactly the same issues.   Grossly over estimated bills from January onwards.  Despite what they claim, they are effectively taking an interest free loan from their customer base to keep the company in business.   They can dress it up how they like.  It’s irrelevant if they reconcile the bills the following month because they just over bill again thus keeping a rolling interest free loan.   it took two months of constant badgering to be finally moved to a fixed DD.   Once that was done I didn’t care how much they over-estimated by.   I had raised a query with the ombudsman over the billing fiasco and they readied a complaint should I wish to proceed.   I thought everything was sorted until May/June whereby I was allegedly more in debt then I was expecting to the tune of an extra months DD.   On querying it, it transpired that even though I was on a fixed monthly DD, because the bill was generated less than 5 days before the DD was due to be taken they didn’t take the DD.   They offered £5 compensation by way of apology but wanted to take two months DD in June.  I told them where to get off.   With appalling customer service,  bills that you need a Maths degree to follow, and I do have one and still struggled, inability to follow through on any agreements, constant gross over-estimation, the missed DD was the final straw and I proceeded with complaint to ombudsman.   Prior to getting to that stage I had to quote Symbio’s own complaints procedure to them to get any sort of response.   Their final offer to me was £25 goodwill and to waive an exit fee. The offer was derisory given the time it had taken to get things sorted and the continuing ineptitude.  Also, the whole thing has dragged on so long (5 months) I was already in the final 49 days of my contract and therefore there were no exit fees to pay and therefore nothing to waive.   Anyway, upshot is, ombudsman found in my favour.  Ordered an apology and a goodwill payment. Symbio appealed but were told the decision stood.   This week I received the goodwill payment.   I promptly left an honest and truthful review on trustpilot.   The next morning I received an email from Symbio with an apology.   This was followed an hour later with an email from trustpilot saying Symbio had replied to the review.  On reading the response they have accused me of not following procedure and of cyber bullying.   The company is a complete joke.
    • why not simply tell you supplier they have the wrong meter number you been paying for usage , and ofcourse you can view this online too so its not as if you'll owe anything you might get a nice surprise and find you are owed a refund.
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
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Hi guys, I need some help with these cowboys.


I bought two new tyres from ATS around June at around £51 each. I was informed that these are ATS' own brand, made by Michelin (Riken Maystorm2) and were ideal for my vehicle.


I originally went in for dunlops, but I digress!


Within two-three weeks and 1000 miles later, there was a lot of wheel wobble and the tread started peeling from the NS front tyre. I went to ATS and asked them to check. They said that my steering rack required replacement and that my rear wheel bearings were dangerous.


I then took the vehicle back to Vauxhall, who kindly did a vehicle health check and nothing suspicious was found (My car has taper bearings on the rear apparently which do give some movement which is acceptable).


I then sent a few snotty e-mails and a template complaints letter, offering to pay for 10% of a new tyre (Which came to £5) as I really wasn't happy. They agreed and I had a new NSF tyre, all happy and dandy.


Today, I took my car into an independant tyre garage as the probem has got very bad again and they've informed me that both front tyres are mis-shaped and dangerous. I rang ATS Customer Relations and they've said that I must buy two new tyres and return these ones for inspection as I could have been running up and down curbs and so on. I pointed out that I don't have the funds to do it, to which I recieved the following response;


"The tyre industry has its own set of rules and regulations in relation to warranty/guarantee. The sale of goods act is no good for these situations as in nearly all cases, tyres go faulty because of user error. You'll either have to remove the wheels and use alternatives or purchase new tyres"


I'm sure this isn't right, my car is in perfect health and gets truly pampered at every oppurtunity by main dealers, only going to independants or ATS for tyres and exhausts. How can they say I've mistreated the car when I take such a stand on keeping it in order?


Can any body help?





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They are actually right and wrong with this.

They are right in respect of the warranty procedure however this does not exhonerate them from the sale of goods act. Unfortunately you have to go through the warranty procedure first.


As regards to what the Vauxhall garage has told you I can categoricaly state that it is not acceptable to have any movement in a wheel bearing assembly whether tapered or not and it is very, very unlikely you have tapered bearings on the front wheels.


You should note that wheel bearing play can also cause a tyre to go egg shaped.


Due to the nature of tyres, the supplier investigation reports are very succint and detailed so if you do send them off for inspection and the report comes back as negative i.e. no fault found with the construction of the tyre then you can be pretty sure it is accurate and another fault with the car which I have pointed out. If there is an issue with them then they will agree to replace and instruct accordingly. However they will ask for a percentage contribution which is usually based on the amount of tread left pro rata.

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As regards to what the Vauxhall garage has told you I can categoricaly state that it is not acceptable to have any movement in a wheel bearing assembly whether tapered or not and it is very, very unlikely you have tapered bearings on the front wheels.


You should note that wheel bearing play can also cause a tyre to go egg shaped.



The rear bearings are taper bearings. These are the ones that they're complaining about, saying that the rear bearings and my [excessively worn] steering rack are causing the issue. I trust anything Vauxhall say over ATS right now as Vauxhall seem to be fairer at pricing things than ATS and will do anything to keep my car coming back as a long term returning customer, not just a sales figure for that specific, slow-trade day!


If there is an issue with them then they will agree to replace and instruct accordingly. However they will ask for a percentage contribution which is usually based on the amount of tread left pro rata.


This is what happened last time. There was no inspection though, I think the fact that the tread was literally peeling off of the NSF tyre was reason enough to actually listen to one of their customers who knows his car and how it feels.


I don't want the earth moved, but I feel that a hefty discount off of my Third set of tyres from ATS in 12 months should be offered, especially as they've fobbed me off with an badly worn steering rack, worn Track Rod Ends, rear taper bearings should never have play in them, trackings out etc... All things my local dealer have said don't actually exist on my car.

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From what you have posted, I would not believe any Vauxhall garage either. I would reitterate that it is not acceptable for any play to be in any wheel bearing weather tapered or not.

If indeed your post relates to the fronts only then you should state this.Exactly what are you complaining about? Two front tyres it seems. You do not confirm either if you have had the work done to rectify the issues ATS have raised.


Given that Vauxhall have said that play is allowable I wouldn't even be going anywhere near the garage which sort of negates any answer they have to the issue.


It could be that ATS are right and Vauxhall are wrong. Would not be the first time.


You need to be more succint in your problem description as to where the tyres were fitted, front or back.


With regards the peeling issue, were they the same tyre etc etc.


Your post is turning into something a bit vauge at the moment.

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I do apologise for the vagueness... I'm on my 6th nightshift in a row :)


The front tyres were replaced by ATS and replace again by ATS when the tread started peeling. These were [Michelin] Riken Maystorm 2 tyres. (ATS' own brand, produced by Michelin).


The general consensus amongst Cavalier owners on forums and so on is that the minor amount of play (And it is minor) is acceptable, requiring a nip'up of the bearings if it becomes more than minor.


I understand that there is a lot of negativity regarding main dealers, but the dealer I use do a hell of a lot of good work for me and I regularly point other Vauxhall owners in their direction for any work.


Vauxhall do a VHC (Vehicle Health Check) every time the car goes in for repairs. The VHC prior to my new tyres was all green (Minus an oil leak and a reverse bulb out) and the VHC they did for me free of charge upon my request was all green - No issues - I had sorted the oil leak and changed the bulb.


There are no issues with my cars steering or suspension, unless you wanted to be very regimental and nip up the little play there is in the rear bearings, but I really do not agree that the slightest play in the rear would cause tread to peel off and tyres to bulge out.


More like ATS hiding behind a big brand to sell their chod to the unsuspecting public as "Michelin" tyres.


That's just my view, but if you need any more info, please advise.

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So we are talking about the front tyres only.


I will say again that it is not acceptable for any play to be in any wheel bearings be it front or rear and either taper or not.


The issue with the peeling tyres seems to have been resolved so what now is the current issue? Vibration? Quoting what has gone on before and been fixed muddies the water so to speak.


What is the current issue you have in a nutshell leaving out previous issues?

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The tread on these tyres isn't peeling, but is wearing unevenly and there is vibration.


A company called Tread Fast (I think) in Saffron Walden, told me that the tyres are mishapen when I took it in to be looked at, thinking I'd thrown a weight or something. They said both front tyres have gone out of shape AFTER I told them that the tyres are under warrenty (I was up front, so they knew I wouldn't be shoe-horned into buying new ones from them).


They gave me the slip of paper explaining that they're mis-shapen.


So, my issue now, with the 3rd set is mishapen tyres.

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Now you have narrowed down the issue we know it is on the front wheels and three sets of tyres. Can you give a timeline with a mileage so to speak. We seem to be getting somewhere here now.

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The first replacement was after 1000 miles.


This issue is now 7000 miles down the line.


I'm going to stick my winter wheels and tyres on soon to avoid damaging my alloys and to enable me to return the two tyres to ATS.

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You might actually be better off sending the complete wheels. Make sure you photgraph first and get a receipt from ATS. This is a standard procedure and if the tyre manufactuer has the wheel as well all the better. The investigation is always very thorough. I'd also ask for an 8D report as to normal. It will be routine but a bid odd from a retail customer and will give them something to think about.

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Would there be charge for sending 4 x alloys back?


The other thing they crowed on about for about 30 seconds is that my car is an "L" spec model (Boggo standard, Ex-Police) and it's wearing Astra CDX alloys (15", same offset and PCD stud pattern).


I told them that 4 stud Vauxhall wheels will suit most others and that Cavalier was available with up to 16" on top spec models, so it was irrelevant.


Just want to make sure they don't have much defence.




8D, I guess this is an industry standard report, not the usual rubbish us normal people get fobbed off with?

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There should not be a charge for returning any tyres under investigation. ATS should take care of this. However you need to ask ATS to ask the supplier if they would like the wheels as well. If not then get ATS to remove and send back thetyres under complaint. Ask ATS to fill in the complaint form ideally with you. They might object but it does indeed help the supplier/manufactuer believe it or not. If the ATS branch has done everything they can then there should not be a problem.

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Heliosuk. Given your post 6 can you please advise me how to tighten up wheel bearings. I know that some makes and in particular Nissan, the rear wheel bearings have to be tightened right up as there is an internal spacer which is SUPPOSED to automatically set the bearing correctly.

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heliosuk, I'm unsure why you say no play is acceptable, you seem to know about motor vehicles, but every mechanic knows taper bearings must have play in them.

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Ok, I see what you are saying so perhaps then a re phrase to "no discernable movement in an X,Y or Z axis and a resistance to movement no less than X newtons/metre and no more than X newtons/metre at a piece temperature of 22 degrees centigrade and where the bearing can confirmed to be lubricated with a lubricant that comples with SAE XXX and that the applied force in any axis does not exceed XXX Kn" would be more appropriate.


Hope that clarifies the statement :-)

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