Scottish Power nightmare...please help

[Lisey Loo]

Sorry I haven't updated sooner but this is making me feel so ill. Anyway, here's the email I received from Gerry:

 

Hi Lisa

 

You mentioned in the original post that British Gas supplied you prior to 2003, do you have a copy of a bill from them? In particular I need a note of the MPAN (Meter Point Administration Number) from then. The MPAN is a unique number to your property and does not change when there is a change of supplier or when a meter is changed. The industry records for the MPAN that Scottish Power are billing show that BG have never supplied the property & obviously you are stating differently.

 

My colleagues have previously written to you to advise that British Gas have never supplied the electricity to the property and they have confirmed that to me today.

You have also been advised that in 2003 we did agree a contract and that because of the passage of time we can no longer provide a copy of this, it simply does not exist anymore. However, it does not change the fact that Scottish Power have been and remain the registered electricity supplier.

 

My understanding of the situation is that this was a house which was converted into 2 flats. There are 2 separate gas supplies neither of which is supplied by Scottish Power. However, there is only one electricity supply to MPAN 11 **EDIT OUT IDENTIFIER** and this is registered on the

national database as Ground Floor Flat **EDIT OUT ADDRESS**.

 

However there is NO separate electricity supply for the upper flat. This unfortunately is

an issue for you to resolve with your landlord and/or upstairs neighbour.

 

 

I realise that you have exhausted our complaints process and been through Consumer Focus and Ombudsman Services: Energy and you remain unsatisfied. However, we are a commercial organisation and we legitimately expect payment for energy that we have supplied. We want to try and help but to do this you will need to accept that we are the registered supplier and that we are entitled to payment.

 

 

I am sorry if the tone and content of this email are disappointing to you, but we have to be realistic. We are happy to set up an extended

payment arrangement to help cover the ongoing consumption and clear the debt.

 

Kind regards

 

Gerry

 

 

My reply to Gerry is:

 

Hi Gerry

 

Thanks for your email.

 

Unfortunately, yes, I did find your email very upsetting. This could have been solved many many years ago by SP admitting that my account had been taken over without my permission and letting me go back to British Gas.

 

 

However, the situation is making me very very ill now so I would like it dealt with once and for all.

 

 

The number in the grid at the bottom of the BG electricity bill is S 02 *** *** on the top line and 11 **** **** **4 on the bottom line (my scanner is broken). Do you need the customer reference for the BG electricity bill?

 

The number in the grid on the SP electricity bill is S 01 *** *** on the top line and 11 **** **** **9 on the bottom line.

The electricity MPAN number on a letter from Siemens is 11*** *** ****9.

 

I hope this helps with your enquiries and I do appreciate your help.

 

Regards

 

Lisa

 

 

I also have been in contact with Laura Whately at The Times and have emailed more details to my MP so he can contact SP too on my behalf. I know it sounds like I'm going for a 'belt & braces' approach to tackling this but I cannot cope with the stress of it anymore, especially now I am having chest pains.

Edited October 26, 2012 by citizenB
Removed identifiers

[citizenB]

Ok,

 

I see they claim there is only one electricity meter to the property. Have you spoken to the occupants of the other flat and asked them if they have been receiving electricity bills and from which supplier. You might also need to speak to the Landlord of the property as well - see what they have to say.

[Lisey Loo]

Sorry....

[Lisey Loo]

The latest tenants upstairs moved in late May this year & are still waiting for a bill from nPower...

 

I think everyone who has lived up there has struggled to get a leccy bill and in the end just not bothered to paid anything.

 

The landlord has zero interest in this whole matter, he doesn't care about anything other than getting his rent. It took me nearly 4 years to convince him that the old single pane sash windows were worse than useless & I also spent months without a working boiler over winter one year because he 'forgot' to tell the plumber

[citizenB]

Sorry....

 

 

My understanding of the situation is that this was a house which was converted into 2 flats.

 

There are 2 separate gas supplies neither of which is supplied by Scottish Power. However, there is only one electricity supply to MPAN 11 **EDIT OUT IDENTIFIER** and this is registered on the

national database as Ground Floor Flat **EDIT OUT ADDRESS**.

 

However there is NO separate electricity supply for the upper flat. This unfortunately is

an issue for you to resolve with your landlord and/or upstairs neighbour.

 

 

 

According to Gerry - there is only one electricity meter ! Yet there are two flats - each flat should have their own meter (supply) I would have thought. Presumably this is the reason that tentants in the upstairs flat are having problems.

 

It looks to me, as though the one leccy meter is registered in YOUR name and therefore you are paying for the other flat's electricity as well.

 

I wonder if it might be worth having a word with Shelter to see how you can get your Landlord to sort that out !!

 

It is all very well for Gerry to say that electricity is being used and they require paying for it.. however, you are not using all the electricity.. !!

 

 

There needs to be another meter for upstairs.

[slick132]

Hi Lisey Loo,

 

Re the leccy meter, there obviously needs to be another meter for the top flat. Sounds like your LL is not likely to be reliable so perhaps SP Rep can suggest how a new meter can be installed (at the LL's cost if payment is required for this).

 

And SP could perhaps help you work out what you owe for your consumption, so you're not being asked to pay for the consumption for the top flat.

 

Do you know when you last paid an electric bill, I assume, to BGas.

 

We may never find out how SP came to be the supplier for your electricity. However, unless you've paid anyone else for electricity, it seems reasonable that you have to pay someone for it.

 

From the email above, it appears that SP will try to help sort this out and collect any arrears due in a manner that you can afford, bearing in mind your current income.

 

[stu007]

Hi

 

I feel we are missing one point here that is the OP states that they asked the landlord to change the meters from coin operated to other meters.

 

Could you please clarify the following:

 

1. When it was coin operated was it the energy company that collected the money or was it the landlord?

 

2. When you asked the landlord to change this meter were you having to provide meter reading to an energy provider with bill of your account?

 

If this meter was installed but the landlord and then changed at your request from coin meter to normal meter then your landlord would have to contact the energy provider for electricity to your property to request a change of meter which may or may not cost depending on energy provider.

 

Have you asked the landlord which energy provider he went through to change the meter?

 

I suspect that the landlord may have used scottichpowers services to change the meter therefore the reason for there claim that they are providing the electricity to your property but that is only an assumption.

 

Now a site that may be of use to you is the Association of Meter Operators: www.meteroperators.org.uk/

 

Have a look at the FAQ Section and also the contact details as the consultant may be helpful have used then myself with an issue getting my meter moved due to my disability and he couldnt be more helpful with his advice.

 

Also what does your Tenancy Agreement say about UTILITIES?

 

This website may also be of use www.uswitch.com it gives you a list of the different energy regions contact details to find out the current supplier of your property

 

I would also advise writing to the energy provider (always get proof of posting) to place that account "IN DISPUTE" until this is resolved.

Edited October 26, 2012 by stu007

[slick132]

Looking at your post #23 above, I wonder if it was Ms Sonia Lane who tried to sign up with SP but of course there was no separate meter for her to be billed through.

 

Also, SP appear to be wrong in saying that BGas never supplied the property when you clearly have bills that show they did.

 

I would also take issue with SP's email which says, "However there is NO separate electricity supply for the upper flat. This unfortunately is an issue for you to resolve with your landlord and/or upstairs neighbour."

 

If it was, in fact, the occupant of the upper flat who applied to be supplied by SP, then it is true that you never signed a contract with SP, nor did you ever wish to be supplied by them. As you've already said, you were on a Dual Fuel Tariff with BGas so why would you want to split the supply when this would cost you more !!

 

Between them, the LL, BGas and SP should all share responsibility for this mess and it appears grossly unfair to expect you to have to pay for their errors.

 

As I said above, it's reasonable that you pay something for the electricity that you've used, but ONLY for your personal consumption.

 

If I'm right, I think SP need to accept that they have made huge errors here and they have failed to listen to what you have said all along.

 

[BankFodder]

I don't think that Scottish Power's position that they don't have the contract because of the passage of time is a tenable position.

 

They have a duty to keep all records which are relevant to what they believe is an ongoing account.

 

Basically they are telling you to prove a negative - that you don't have a contract - because they have lost or destroyed any paperwork - assuming that such paperwork ever existed.

 

If Scottish Power wants to argue that there is a contract then they have to prove it. If it went to court, they would have to prove the existence of a contract.

 

I think that is entirely dishonest of them now to try and rely on the fact that they are unable to produce any evidence of a contract and simply write it off to the passage of time.

 

I have no doubt that you must pay for the energy you use - to someone or other. However, if there is no contract and if there is a reasonable basis for saying that the SP contract was missold to you then I would say that you owe money to SP for yourself - and that they must look out for themselves in respect of any power not used by you.

 

It is far too easy for these people to try and pass the buck.

 

If you can show that you had a proper agreement with BG then I think that it falls upon SP to prove that they do have a valid contract with you.

In that case you may well be liable for the bill and would have a case against the other tenants and maybe the the landlord together - I'm not too sure. It is complicated.

 

I think that your very best way forward now is to calculate what you probably owe SP for your own use in your own flat and pay that to them as soon as possible.

They are not entitled to refuse payment and if they do, then please let us know. They have a duty to let you reduce the outstanding sum.

 

Do not give them anything which accepts that they have been the registered supplier until now.

If they want to become the registered supplier then they must provide you with an agreement and this agreement must acknowledge that there is a meter problem which they will seek to remedy.

 

I think that all of this would seem reasonable to a court and a court would be prepared to make orders which put this into effect.

 

There is no doubt that there have been misselling scandals over the years and I am sure that SP have had their share of problems and that new victims are being discovered regularly. I expect that this is a more likely explanation for the lack of a paper trail.

SP is powerful and well-resourced and easily capable of storing documents digitally if they wanted. If they have chosen not to then that is their responsibility and they must accept the consequences.

 

However, you must accept that you have used some energy and you must show good faith by paying what you reasonably owe for this.

 

Finally, has this impacted on your credit file at all? I expect that Scottish Power also won't have any evidence that you have agreed that your data can shared with a third party. This is another reason why they need to get a properly signed agreement with you.

[seanamarts]

Have we any other updates on this yet.

[slick132]

Hi LiseyLoo,

 

Can you please confirm, are the 2 flats separate and self-contained properties, each with their own front door.

 

[Lisey Loo]

Hi guys, sorry, have been away from home dealing with family illness. Will read through all your advice and questions and post responses asap. I have spoken with the charming BankFodder, and have a lot of things to do for him to get this dealt with.

Thank you again for all your support & help with this.

[seanamarts]

I hope all recover soon.