Mislead into a PCN by BwD Borough Council

[Leicalens]

I want to submit a challenge for a PCN I received a week ago. As a reasonable driver I did not realise that parking was prohibited at the location because there are a number of marked parking bays within the yellow lines and other drivers were parked there at the time.

 

I have spoken to the local businesses and they told me that a lot of their customers have fallen foul of the devious CEO's who ticket quickly when the bays have been filled. They also tell me it damages their business because all other areas around the sites are all double yellow lined.

 

Is anybody able to let me know whether I should just pay the fine or make a stand against it. The place where I parked is at the following location:

 

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Canterbury+Street,+Blackburn&hl=en&ll=53.743632,-2.483677&spn=0.000267,0.000517&sll=51.50476,-0.137362&sspn=0.035955,0.066175&oq=canterbury+street,+blac&t=h&hnear=Canterbury+St,+Blackburn,+United+Kingdom&z=21

 

Any advice or help would be appreciated.

 

Liecalens

[vax2002]

Please post up the ticket details

Time observed

Time issued

Offence/ Contravention code

[Leicalens]

Hi Vax2002

 

Thanks for taking an interest, the details are as follows - I do know that there are no time plates nearby as I had to check even though it is double yellow lines.

 

PCN Number: xxxxxx

Served on: 16/10/12

By Civil Enforcement Officer No: xxxx

 

Who had reasonable cause to believe that the following parking contravention had occurred

 

Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours: (Code 01)

Date of Contravention: 16/10/12

Time: 14:46

Location: Canterbury Street (Blackburn)

 

Vehicle Registration Mark: xxxxxx

Make: xxxxx

Colour: White

 

Tax Disc Number: 0000000000

Expiry Date:

Observed From: 14:40 to: 14:46

 

Thanks again for any input you can give to me.

 

Leicalens

Edited October 24, 2012 by ims21
Identifiers removed

[Leicalens]

This is a copy of the letter I sent through to the parking services in the first instance:

 

Dear sir or madam

 

I am submitting an informal challenge to the above PCN. As a reasonable driver I did not realise that parking was prohibited at the location.

 

There are a number of marked parking bays within the yellow lines. Please see enclosed.

 

Please postpone the period within which the reduced Penalty Charge may be paid as from the date of this letter.

 

I will submit a full challenge once I have received further advice.

 

Please keep all correspondence for your records. Copies of all correspondence will be made available to other interested parties and my representatives.

 

Without prejudice

[Leicalens]

This is the reply I received from Parking Services:

 

Dear XXXXXX

 

RE: Notice of Rejection of informal challenge – Traffic Management Act 2004

PCN N0: XXXXXXXXX

Date Issued: 16/10/2012 14:46:42

Location of Contravention : CANTERBURY STREET (BLACKBURN)

Vehicle Registration No : XXXXXXX

 

We have received your challenge to the above Penalty Charge Notification and after careful consideration of the circumstances we have found no grounds for the cancellation of the charge.

 

On looking at our Civil Enforcement Officer’s photographic evidence / notes we can see that your vehicle was parked in contravention of Double Yellow Lines.

 

Our Civil Enforcement Officer observed your vehicle for 5 minutes for loading or unloading activity, which is not a legal requirement but is within their guidelines, before the Penalty Charge Notice was issued. As the Civil Enforcement Officer observed no such activity during this time, we believe the Penalty Charge Notice has been issued correctly.

 

Although you have stated in your correspondence that your vehicle was not parked on the yellow line or causing an obstruction, we must remind you that the restriction surrounds a traffic island which is hatched to show no parking and as of 2003 the restriction of a Double Yellow Line does not require a “no waiting at any time” sign plate and are therefore is fully enforceable.

 

You can still take advantage of the reduced charge of £35.00 by paying within 14 days from 25 October 2012.

 

Please note that this discounted rate is no longer available after 14 days and the charge will return to the original charge of £70 if payment is not received in time.

 

At this stage you may follow one of two possible courses of action:

 

1. You may settle the Penalty Charge notice in full by paying the £35.00 within 14 days of the date of this letter using one of the following methods:

(Blurb – very convenient ways to pay)

 

This payment will close the case and you will receive no further correspondence on the matter. Closure of the case would mean that further appeals against the Penalty Charge are not possible.

 

2. You may wait for a Notice to owner to be sent to the registered keeper of the vehicle. The Notice to Owner gives the keeper of the vehicle the opportunity to begin a formal appeal process – including a hearing before an independent adjudicator. However, once the Notice to Owner is issued the full fine of £70.00 will be due and you will no longer be able to pay the £35.00.

 

We regret that this office will not be able to enter into further correspondence on this Penalty Charge Notice until the Notice to Owner is issued.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Parking Services

[Leicalens]

What I find really annoying is not just being mislead into parking where I would receive a PCN it is their response to my informal challenge. It is really dismissive. There has been no 'careful consideration of the circumstances' on their part. The response is simply a generic template covering what I expect are the main challenges. I planned to pay the reduced charge because I have no money to even pay this and continue to challenge for a full refund however if pay they are now telling me that I cannot continue to challenge for a refund. Furthermore they state that they will not enter into further communication until I have decided to accept a full fine.

 

I feel violated because of the PCN and now I feel like I am on channel 4's Deal or No Deal, except the council take my money.

 

I have more photographs of the area where I parked and measured the width of the parking bays compared to borough owned car parks. Not much difference - the 'hatched' traffic island does not looked hatched to me or other victims of this borough councils money spinner. The time plates that they refer to are in evidence however they are all spray painted grey in the local vicinity.

 

Has anybody any advice. Please.

 

Leiclaens

[Leicalens]

Having paid the fine and other motorists still being duped by the parking in the area I have sent this email to their department.

 

Dear Parking Services

 

I am contacting you directly as per the boroughs complaints procedure. I am unhappy with Parking Services to address an issue about car parking around Canterbury Street.

 

I recently received a penalty for parking in the area and submitted an informal challenge to the charge. I was frustrated to receive a very generic response to my challenge. Your response suggests that ‘careful consideration’ had been given to the issue I raised yet then proceeded to dismiss the challenge with a list of reasons. I was also dismayed that once the PCN had been settled this matter would then be closed and even more annoyed that your service does not want to accept any responsibility for the problems with parking around Canterbury Street by signing off with ‘Parking Services’.

 

This matter can now be dealt with under your corporate complaints procedure as no appeal can exist because the balance was paid.

 

I would like you to look into the issue and come back to me as quickly as possible.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Leicalens

[green_and_mean]

I fail to see why you consider yourself 'duped' into parking in contravention, you parked on a traffic island and on double yellow lines, why would any competant driver consider either acceptable or legal?

[Leicalens]

There were 5 other cars parked within the bays inside the double yellow lined area at the time. Unfortunately I was ticketed because unbeknown to me every other vehicle had a blue badge.

 

I was duped because it looked very much like a parking area. I am no longer a regular at the auction house I was visiting and every street around Canterbury Street has prohibited parking.Speaking with all the businesses in the area they inform me that it is now a weekly event on the days the auction house is viewing and when the auction is on.

 

It is not just myself who has been duped. I am a very responsible and competent driver.

 

Your comment is niave and you are too quick to pass comment.

 

Leicalens

[green_and_mean]

No one has been duped the area is marked clearly with yellow lines, you failed to understand their meaning that is no ones fault apart from yours. The cars with blue badges are exempt from the yellow line restriction, you are not. In addition there are no marked parking bays shown on google street view I think you are mistaken on that point. The council didn't want you to park there so it marked it as no parking by a sign that is the only one suitable and thats double yellow lines apart from standing a traffic warden there 24/7 there is not much else they could have done.

[Leicalens]

Thank you for your comments. I am still pursing a complaint about parking around the Canterbury Street area in Blackburn. I will update the forum with further correspondence from me or the council.

 

You are welcome to give me your feedback.

 

Leicalens

[Leicalens]

Update:

They have now removed the yellow lines completely around one section of the area and appear to have made it into a legal parking bay.

[green_and_mean]

Update:

They have now removed the yellow lines completely around one section of the area and appear to have made it into a legal parking bay.

 

So there is now a pole with a white sign with a white P in a blue square stating you can park?

[Leicalens]

I have not seen the sign with the P on it I'm afraid, we were just passing on the day the auction house views next to the parking/no parking area. The BwD council like parking ambiguity though, it assists with their revenue. I was informed that the local press have been on the issue and it was headlined in the Evening Telegraph.

 

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/1079561.Yellow_lines__road_rage__for_drivers/

 

It appears this issue has been going on for some time.

 

All comments welcome.

 

Leicalens

[Jamberson]

Are those yellow lines enforceable within the triangle? They usually govern the area from the centre of the carriageway up to the building line, but there's no building line there - the parking area just runs onto more road with more yellow lines. I am not sure they apply to the enclosed area.

[green_and_mean]

Its clearly not part of the carriageway so why would anyone think it was a parking place? Its a hatched area at a junction anyone that thinks its a 'car park' needs their eyes tested.

[Jamberson]

That's true, but is not the point I was making. It might not be a car park, but is it subject to the yellow lines?

[green_and_mean]

That's true, but is not the point I was making. It might not be a car park, but is it subject to the yellow lines?

 

Its a large traffic island which people obviously somehow assumed it was ok to park on so to avoid any doubt they have painted yellow lines around it to show it has the same restriction as the sides of the road its situated between, legally probably not required but nothing wrong with them provided the road they are in is restricted. I've actually seen a roundabout with yellow lines around it because people parked on it.

[TheBogsDollocks]

Did you ever check the traffic order to determine whether the yellow lines were actually legitimately placed? If they were not regulated by order then no contravention occurred. You can still check this and if you find fault make a formal complaint.

[Leicalens]

I agree with you TheBogsDollocks, I had a look at the The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996

 

No. 2489 PART III Regulation 18

 

Traffic signs

 

18.—(1) Where an order relating to any road has been made, the order making authority shall take such steps as are necessary to secure—

 

(a)before the order comes into force, the placing on or near the road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order making authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road;

 

(b)the maintenance of such signs for so long as the order remains in force; and

 

©in a case where the order revokes, amends or alters the application of a previous order, the removal or replacement of existing traffic signs as the authority considers requisite to avoid confusion to road users by signs being left in the wrong positions.

 

(2) The order making authority shall consult the appropriate Crown authority before carrying out the requirements of sub-paragraphs (a) and © of paragraph (1) in relation to a Crown road.

 

(3) This regulation is without prejudice to section 85 of the 1984 Act(1) (traffic signs for indicating speed limits).

 

Thanks for pointing this out to me.

 

Any comments are appreciated.

 

Best wishes

 

Leicalens