Town and City Park Ltd ticket at Greenwich Retail Park

[JustAnotherOne]

Hi,

 

A couple of weeks ago I was in Greenwich Retail Park and parked there for just over 4 hours. To the best of my knowledge I didn't see any signs to say parking was free for x amount of time, and there were definitely no ticket machines. Today I received a letter from Town and City Parking Ltd saying I have to pay a parking fine as "the contravention in question is Over Free Time, which is supported by the camera images of the vehicle entering and exiting the car park."

 

I think because I don't have a requisite amount of posts I can't attach the image that I took of the letter to this thread. Maybe I'm mistaken and have missed the option.

 

Anyway, I don't dispute the time I was in there for, and a short while ago I checked on the retail park's website and it said the following:

 

"We offer three hours of free parking to our GSP shoppers.

 

If you have received a parking ticket and have reason to dispute the charge please contact TCP Town and City Parking Ltd 5 South Inch Business Centre, Shore Road, Perth PH2 8BW Tel 08452303081 or visit (can't add URL)"

 

I hadn't seen this before going there, and like I said, I wasn't aware of any restrictions from a parking point of view as I genuinely didn't see any signs there to notify me of this. I'm not pleading ignorance here as I should have been more alert to the fact, but would like to know how to move forward from here.

 

My question is, should I ignore this and any subsequent letters from Town and City Parking Ltd, pay the fine or take another form of action?

 

Any advice on the matter will be much appreciated.

 

Thanks

[DBC]

It's not a FINE and you can ignore. TCP have never taken anyone to court.

[instrumentsofjoy]

It's not a FINE and you can ignore. TCP have never taken anyone to court.

 

The rules have changed slightly since October 1st. Keep us up-to-date on this one with copies of the letters if you can. They will be altering them and I think a couple of companies have fallen foul of this already.

 

But certainly do not contact, them do not appeal.

[Old Snowy]

+ 1 for the above posts

 

As an aside I confidently predict that Town & City Parking will be transmuted in the near future into a "new" company that will be known as SmartParking which will fit in with the branding used by the owners of the company - NZ-based Car Parking Technologies Ltd. They took over in January of this year amid claims of slack practices and the employment of staff that "nobody knew what they did" - read here

 

The former owner of TCP - Bernie Dickson left the CPT board suddenly at the end of September and the Perth-based operation is actually being run (as it has been for some time) by the CPT CEO - Chris Morris - who had to come over from NZ to sort out the mess.

[Carlos Stein]

This is virtually the same scenario I had at Leicester's Fosse Park.

 

Their letters may look scary but I'm not paying them a penny.

 

Even in the unlikely event of them chasing it up I have many good reasons to declare their claim null and void:

 

1) There have been numerous reports that the camera system they use is flawed because it cannot distinguish the actual duration a vehicle has been on the premises, it only reads "Time in" and "Time out", thus if, as in the case of Fosse park there are several areas of retail outlets with different car parks, and sometimes (for instance if you are looking for the best PC deal or whatever), it may involve visits to several retailers, maybe returning to the first one again.

 

2) Often, no offence was committed, therefore why do they assume you are guilty before they examine the facts?

 

3) The MOST annoying thing about the two letters I received is the first one was sent 22 days after the alleged "offence", so when the Asda customer services say " if you were genuinely here for some time then just bring you receipt and our manager will validate your stay" Somehow? Who the heck keeps till receipts for that long?

 

So according to the letter, after 14 days the £40 "fine" increases to £70 plus £10 "admin charge", but I received it 8 days after this deadline!

 

On 17-10-12 I received the £70 deadline threat letter, saying I have 14 days before apparently "the total amount owed will be passed to a debt recovery agency" (- yeh, bring it on!), then it "MAY" result in a "summons or writ" being issued, yet the letter is dated 6-10-12!!

 

I wonder how many people are gullible enough to just pay up?

Carlos XX

[Old Snowy]

This is virtually the same scenario I had at Leicester's Fosse Park.

 

Their letters may look scary but I'm not paying them a penny.

..............

Carlos XX

All of that aside, the chances are that they do not have a proprietary interest in the land in question, are therefore not in a position, legally speaking, to offer a contract to park in the first place. In addition, the charge levied does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss and consequently amounts to a contractual penalty that is unenforceable at law.

[Carlos Stein]

Following from Snowy's learned comments: Can I ask if they are allowed to issue a "fine" without putting a ticket on your car?

 

Also, I was not the driver at the time so it makes their claim even more void! They make a fuss about "The DVLC have confirmed you are the registered keeper of this vehicle" so what?

 

I also note the phone number begins with 0845!

[SURFBOY]

Its not a FINE, Stop taking them seriously, just ignore them and get on with the rest of your life.

They can not do anything to you but send letters. All they want is your money, dont give it to them.

[Old Snowy]

Following from Snowy's learned comments: Can I ask if they are allowed to issue a "fine" without putting a ticket on your car?

 

Also, I was not the driver at the time so it makes their claim even more void! They make a fuss about "The DVLC have confirmed you are the registered keeper of this vehicle" so what?

 

I also note the phone number begins with 0845!

 

+1 for SURFBOY's comments

 

What you have received is not a "fine", it never has been, and nor will it ever be. What you have is in effect a simple invoice. In strictly legal terms it could also be described as an "invitation to settle". In sending the invoice to you the parking company are asserting that you have breached a contract they allege was formed between you (or at least the driver of your car at the time) when the vehicle was parked.

 

Issuing the invoice neatly side-steps the essentials that recent court cases have plainly demonstrated must be present if any claim, based on the non-payment of the sums demanded - are to succeed in court.

[Carlos Stein]

I fully understand what you are saying guys and they will not be getting a penny from me and that it is not enforceable. Thanks for the clarification.

 

Their threats do not worry me in any way. But the whole [problem] makes me angry, in the way that this is effectively endorsed by the supermarkets and that this company is legally allowed to go round sending official looking, carefully worded bogus letters, and still get away with it.

 

Carlos XX

[DaniPedrosa]

Keep everything you get from TCP together in a safe place. Ignore everything other than genuine stamped court papers.

[instrumentsofjoy]

 

Their threats do not worry me in any way. But the whole [problem] makes me angry, in the way that this is effectively endorsed by the supermarkets and that this company is legally allowed to go round sending official looking, carefully worded bogus letters, and still get away with it.

 

Carlos XX

 

 

How angry are you at the supermarket?

 

If it is very very angry, go and fill up a trolley with a load of frozen food at the bottom and loads of small items at the top.

 

Halfway through the checkout process tell them you have to leave and move your car because you have run out of time.

 

You can also check with your local planning department - planning was often granted on the assumption of free parking.

[cathw123]

Im in the same position as I have a few parking tickets from town and city parking, as I have to park on asda to get to my college next door. Ive been told off plenty of people to ignore them but im still wary of the letters as I am a student and cannot afford court charges ect. Im just wondering if there is anything or anyone 'official' I can speak to to confirm this?

[DBC]

You don't need to. The information on here is 100% accurate.

[cathw123]

You don't need to. The information on here is 100% accurate.

 

So I should just ignore them?

[DBC]

Yes!!!

[Carlos Stein]

I express anger by spreading the word in the form of cynical music aimed at "People or faceless organisations who unnecessarily make our lives a misery"!

 

It covers many themes such as: Bankers, Media Providers, Car Park [problem]s (such as that covered by this thread), Working tax credit forms, Government conspiracy, etc etc

 

Just Google: "carlos stein all the rage"

[el mojo]

Can I clarify, as someone who has recently found themselves with a ticket from the lovely folk at T&C....

Have I made a mistake by contacting them? I was so angry that I sent an appeal immediately... So many have recommended that all correspondence is ignored - does response change the situation?

 

Thanks guys

[DBC]

It doesn't matter. From now just ignore. TCP have never done court.

[Carlos Stein]

I have today received a dubious looking letter from "Roxburghe Debt Collectors" who are now seeking £128 on behalf of "Town & City Parking Ltd". There is nothing to say quite how they are going to do this, except the offer of various forms of payment eg Paypal etc. on the reverse.

 

There are 2 not so carefully worded paragraphs which they have included (complete with grammar errors) which seems to suggest that the "debt collectors" are actually the same bunch which run the T&CPL. As far as the solicitors go - they can bring it on!

 

1) WE ARE FULLY AWARE OF ANECDOTAL INFORMATION BEING PRESENTED VIA THE INTERNET AND ON VARIOUS WEBSITES AND YOU MAY WELL FEEL THIS GUIDANCE IS WORTH FOLLOWING. (YES!) WE STRONGLY URGE YOU TO SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE RATHER THAN RELY ON THESE OPINIONS. (The damn cheek!)

 

2) Under the Terms & Conditions associated with this PARKING CHARGE NOTICE it is important to note that the driver who enters into a contract with "Client" for the parking of a vehicle at the Car Park, whether by purchasing a ticket or otherwise, is responsible for the resolution of the breach. If you were not the driver at the time of the unauthorised parking event, please contact to let us know who was. It is in your own best interests to get in touch with us so we can resolve this matter without recourse to further action. If we do not hear from you within 14 days we will pass the matter on to our solicitors, Graham White.

 

 

That told me - er not.

[DBC]

Roxbourgh are on the DVLA "banned list" for the next couple of months. That shows you what sort of company they are.

[Carlos Stein]

It does show they have been reading the forum though!

 

So it's not a good idea to tell them I wasn't the driver then? I refuse to rise to the bait or even acknowledge anything because no offence was committed - is that right?

[DBC]

Don't bother. They never seem to read the letters. All they wan't is money.

[Carlos Stein]

How angry are you at the supermarket?

........planning was often granted on the assumption of free parking.

 

The Fosse Park website clearly says "Free Parking, 2500 spaces"!

 

Should i take a screenshot of this for keeps?

[Carlos Stein]

Just received a letter with the name Graham White Solicitors on the top requesting settlement of £128.

 

It says: "The costs associated with issuing a claim and subsequent potential enforcement could be as follows (these figures are for illustrative purposes only): Claim issue fee £30, Solicitors costs £50, Judgement costs £25, Warrant issue fee £100, Solicitors costs for issuing warrant £2.25. Total additional costs £207.25"

 

I decided to telephone them just to say I wasn't the driver. Interestingly the telephone number is for Roxburghe debt collectors and not the solicitors. They were trying to get a name from me saying that the insurance conditions state that I must know everyone who drives the vehicle and that the tape (of the conversation) could be replayed in court and use as evidence. I reminded them that this wasn't an insurance issue.

 

Meanwhile I have sent an official complaint to the British Parking Association to which they have confirmed T&CP ltd are members.

Having read the code of practice I identified 7 breaches of their own guidelines to which the BPA are to investigate.

 

I eagerly await the outcome....