Vehicle purchased from bankrupt individual.

[Stu1974]

Hello everybody, great forum.

 

 

 

Im a newbie here so im sorry if this is in the wrong place.

 

 

 

I have a potential serious problem.

 

 

 

In August 2012, I purchased an Audi Q7 from a privateindividual from Derby. The car was advertised on Autotrader and EBay. I won thecar on eBay and went down to check it out. Everything checked out ok, the HPIreport was clean. I made arrangements to come and collect the car the followingweekend, when I had time to tax and insure the car for the way home.

 

There was nothing wrong with the car and I paid £20,000 forit Cash. The seller requested CASH, I tried to pay by bank transfer or Bankers chequebut he refused. I have all the car details Inc all documents and a receipt fromthe registered owner at his home.

 

 

 

I’ve had the car nearly 3 months no problem. Until today I receiveda letter from the BIS Criminal Investigators (Department for Business and innovationand skills) who are wanting to know the circumstances of how I obtained thevehicle.

 

 

 

I have telephoned the previous owner and he started cryingon the phone. He stated that he actually went bankrupt in April 2012, some 4months before I bought the car. He has stated that he told the Official Receiverthat he disposed of the car in NOVEMBER 2011 to a garage, which he has admittedto me, was a lie. He then admitted to trying to pull a fast one with thereceiver and begged me not to tell the investigator how or when I bought it,especially what I paid for it. He stated he would go to Jail.

 

 

 

Im very worried now as to who is going to come knocking atmy door to take my only car away.

 

I have 3 children under the age of 7 and it’s our only car.My wife uses the car everyday for work and her work employer has said if she losesher car she loses her job! I also can’t take my kids to nursery in my van!

 

 

 

We had to take a £20,000 loan out to buy the car from afamily member, we’ve spent £4,000 on extras on it upgrading it and simply can’tafford to lose our money, not to mention buy another car.

 

 

 

Come anybody please tell me what to do or what my optionsare?

 

 

 

This is so confusing!

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome, stu.

 

I've moved this thread to our Legal Issues Forum, hopefully you'll get some help shortly.

 

Regards,

 

Scott.

[Stu1974]

Oh sorry about that, my appologies.

 

Stu

[marmaris30]

Personally I think it is in your interest to cooperate with the investigators. They'd probably work out in the end that he had an expensive car he hadn't told them about. Since you've bought the car in good faith and have done nothing wrong, BIS should simply be concerned with extracting the money paid out of the seller, and you owe him no favours, nor them any money.

 

He should have realised at the time that lying to the Official Receiver could be a serious offence.

[Stu1974]

I think that's what they want to investigate. Apparently he had hire purchase on it last year but it got wiped when he went bankrupt. He has obviously hid the car out of the way by saying he disposed of it last year, but really he kept it. Receiver new about it because be had 25k of finance on it. When he went bankrupt the hpi marker was wiped of the q7's hpi report so nothing showed up. Obviously I would of bought it otherwise..

I can't believe a finance company would remove the marker without getting paid. Or is that what they have to do if its been placed in the banckrup proceedings.

[brokebutnotbeatn]

Something doesn't stack up though. I assume you saw the log book and completed that as part of the sale; I assume you have since been issued with a log book? The DVLA would have had a record of him owning the car as the last owner and the OR would have easily been able to check that out. However, it is not your concern as you made a legit purchase and certainly should not worry about protecting his ar*e!

[Bandit127]

Been thinking about this today. If a trustee thinks an asset has been disposed of at undervalue, they can get the transaction reversed. I guess the same might apply where the bankrupt has disposed of security, as in this case.

 

So I think the absolute worst case is the car goes, but you get your money back.

 

You will need to persuade them that you were not an accomplice, just an innocent buyer. All true so you should be OK there.

 

The bankrupt will receive a BRU/BRO I suspect. Various penalties for that, including extended bankruptcy and/or extended IPA/IPO. I suspect that is why they want to interview you actually - to work out how badly the bankrupt has behaved.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Bandit127

[brokebutnotbeatn]

But could they get the transaction reversed when someone has, as in this case, spent further money on enhancing the product? And how would anyone get their money back from a bankrupt who has presumably spent it?

[Bandit127]

This is conjecture, but if it did pan out that way, the money would come from the BR's estate via the trustee.

[Surfer01]

If he did not declare the car during the bankruptcy, he would probably be in serious trouble. Don't try and cover up for him otherwise you are risking your reputation. I doubt if you have anything to be concerned about as you can show the purchase was via eBay.

[Stu1974]

Thanks Guys, I mean that, taking the time to explain means a lot, Thankyou.

 

An update for you.

 

I have spoken to the investigator today. He just wants as much evidence as he can get to prosecute the seller for proceeds of crime. Whatever thay means.

 

I have also spoken to the offical receiver and tustee.

 

As I purchased the car in good faith, paid for it in full. Had a HPI certificate before I bought it, checked it whilst I was there on my phone and again yesturday, with them all showing clear of finance, I deem myslef to have purchased it in good faith. Its the seller who has lied.

I have all documents and the V5 in my own name. I have a recipt and all adverts.

 

I have learned from the Receievr/Trustee who has stated he has no interest in the Q7 nor has the Investigator or Insolvencey people. He did state the finance company might want to have a word and ask for there money back...

 

What I cant understand is why sombody has taken the finance marker off the car? Leaving any poor sole like me to fall into this trap..

 

The Receiver has stated it was only in August 3rd 2012 that Fortis Finance produced a letter to the Reciever stating they are owed £25K. They have now been according to the Reciever placed as a Creditor for the sum of £25K.

 

This is so confusing!

[Surfer01]

It was probably Fortis that removed the marker when the person went bankrupt so they only have themselves to blame. The bit that I cannot understand is how the car happen to "vanish" even though the seller was hiding it. Surely a trace would have been done on it and it would have flagged up on a HP or DVLA check?

[Stu1974]

I agree completley.

 

The Reciever has stated the seller (Bankruptee) told them and the Finance company the car had been written off and he disposed of it. Still. I can see the logic in taking the marker off? Its just openeing the door for sombody like me to get caught out.. I think to be honest his whole investiogation has started from him od disposing of the car. (HIDING it)

 

What do you guys think my position is? What rights do you think I haver to the vehicle.?

The Bankrupt has no asssets left and is broke...

 

?