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Quality Issue Fish Tank

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If I had any luck it would be bad!

Here we go again.

 

I have just taken delivery of a brand new Aquarium from an online retailer.

Upon delivery i removed the outer packaging to ensure there was no glass breakage before allowing the driver to leave and signing for the package as being received 'in good condition'

 

Now the package itself was too very large boxes upon a pallet, which the driver removed from said pallet in order to remove the boxes individually from the wagon. My colleague from work had to help me to lift the boxes off the wagon and into my house.

My first question is with regard to the delivery and/or collection of a faulty item.

 

Is it my responsibility to help load/unload when the packaging is clearly labelled as "over 25kg 2 man lift"?

 

Secondly, upon further unpacking and inspection, a number of quality issues became apparent.

1) The black vinyl backing on the rear glass has a piece of white backing paper left on it meaning there is a white 'patch' showing inside the tank.

2) The underside of the tank surround which overhangs the cabinet has paint scuffed off.

3) The bottom left corner of this overhang has a paint run.

4) There is evidence of filler in the mitred joint of the top pelmet which has not been sufficiently covered with paint.

5) There is a small gap/split in the face of the mitred joint in same corner.

6) There is a small chip in the cabinet door PRIOR to painting.

7) There is evidence of masking tape glue all round the adjustable feet as a result they are a dirty cream colour instead of white.

 

I have emailed the store to tell them the quality is shocking and I want a full refund and for them to collect the faulty goods.

 

QUESTIONS: Am I right to claim under Section 14 of SOGA subsection 2 and 2A?

 

Is it up to them to ensure 2 guys come to collect it as my friend and I might not be available and what if we dropped it! Surely they should send 2 guys for a large package?

 

Its even too heavy for my girlfriend to help me lift back into the conservatory where we left the packaging after my friend and I placed it in the living room before fully inspecting it!

 

Any advice appreciated please?

 

Trying to upload pics from PC but keep getting message "this is not a valid image file" despite the thumbnails showing in my image folder???

How do I upload from photobucket??


Redletter

 

 

'I believe the struggle for financial freedom is unfair - I believe the only ones who disagree are millionaires!'

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When you emailed the seller your cancellation under dsr's, did you tell them they will need 2 persons to collect due to the weight? You didn't have to but it might have been prudent to do so.

Maybe when they reply acknowledging your cancellation you could inform them of this.

 

As you know you have a right under dsr's to cancel regardless of quality/fault.

 

Do you envisage a problem with returning the product or return costs?

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Hi Nagasis thanks for your help.

 

This is the email I sent to them yesterday. I did not mention statute at this stage as I didn't want to rub them up the wrong way and I wanted to gauge their response....

 

Hello,

I have just taken delivery of the Aquareef 300. Unfortunately upon unpacking and inspection of the goods it has become apparent that the aquarium and cabinet have a number of faults. Specifically:

1) Vinyl backing poorly applied with white backing paper and crease showing through rear of tank.

2) Poor quality paint finish, scuffs to underside of tank on painted surround.

3) Split in front right corner of top pelmet on murres joint.

4) Poor finish/blemish signs of unpainted filler to top right corner of pelmet.

5) Paint runs at bottom front left corner of tank surround.

6) Poor finish to painted 'white' adjustable feet and signs of glue possibly from masking tape.

7) Chip in left hand door prior to painting.

 

Please see attached photographs.

 

*Overall the quality and finish of this product is absolutely shocking and this unit is not fit to be a showpiece in the living room! I am totally disappointed with the goods.

I therefore reject the goods as faulty and ask for a full refund and collection of the goods at a mutually convenient time and date.

 

Thank you.

 

Regards,

Red.

 

This was the response I received today....

 

Hi

We are sorry you are not happy with the aquarium and there is no problem *in returning the aquarium. The aquarium will be pick up Thursday 18/10/2012 between 8am and 6pm The aquarium must be in *original condition and packaging, Also the pallet must be re wrapped with the wrapping and bubble wrap ie non of the aquarium or base should be exposed to air. In other words it must be sent back packaged exactly how it was sent to yourself.

Regards

Supplier.

 

As you can see they are dictating the pick up day/time which is not convenient as this is the date we are having a party for my partners daughter.

They are also claiming it has to be repackaged onto a pallet when the delivery driver didn't even leave the pallet as we had to split the package in order to physically lift it off the wagon!

 

So do the DSR's still apply?

I'm a little confused as to when it's the DSR's and when it's Section 14 SOGA?

As I interpretted it if I cancel under DSR's I imagined they would charge for the collection?

 

Thanks.


Redletter

 

 

'I believe the struggle for financial freedom is unfair - I believe the only ones who disagree are millionaires!'

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Dsr's apply.

You cancelled within 7 days of taking delivery in writing due to faulty goods.

As the goods are faulty they are liable for the return costs. (if you had simply changed your mind then you would be liable).

In any case they are collecting at their cost.

All is well except when they are picking it up.

 

I would reply to them stating that the driver did not leave the pallet behind and therefore you are unable to have it placed and wrapped on the pallet. Furthermore you are not available on that specified date and they will have to arrange a different date (and give some available dates that you are available).

 

Either way, they are to refund you within 30 days of your written cancellation. If they fail to pick it up it is their problem. You still get your refund.

 

ps enjoy the party.

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Hey thanks for your help I do appreciate it!

Is it necessary for me to refer in my letter to relevant sections of the OFT guides such as 3.57 and 3.58 reference packaging requirements/my obligations?

I was advised that my letters for my previous dispute were full of waffe! It would appear that some of these retailers are genuinely ignorant of the Regulations in any case. I want to make it clear that I am aware of my rights without appearing aggressive. Something I learned from the previous dispute!


Redletter

 

 

'I believe the struggle for financial freedom is unfair - I believe the only ones who disagree are millionaires!'

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Hey thanks for your help I do appreciate it!

Is it necessary for me to refer in my letter to relevant sections of the OFT guides such as 3.57 and 3.58 reference packaging requirements/my obligations?

I was advised that my letters for my previous dispute were full of waffe! It would appear that some of these retailers are genuinely ignorant of the Regulations in any case. I want to make it clear that I am aware of my rights without appearing aggressive. Something I learned from the previous dispute!

 

Tbh I wouldnt at this point. They seem like they are on the ball. You could always keep that bit if things take a nose dive.

As the pickup is for thurs I would try email them today.

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Ok thanks-should I word it pretty much as you did above?

 

Can you just clarify something if you are able, please? On reading the DSR's I noted that it mentions something about duty of care and the supplier having a right to sue if I was to breach it?

Well if I am unable to pack the item(s) upon the non existant pallet, and I have no strapping to replace that which was removed, and the DSR's do not allow the supplier to insist that the item is repackaged 'as new'....

What if it gets broken AFTER it has been collected by the courier? Will I be able to insist that they sign something for me to say they collected the items 'undamaged' therefore taking over the liability from me once collected?

I know I am jumping the gun but I have a tendency to worry about covering all bases so to speak!:roll:

 

I am guessing it would be wise to point out/confirm that I am cancelling under DSR's?

 

Oh and when I tell them they will need to arrange for a 2 man pick up shall I give reason ie my partner cannot be expected to help lift it?

 

Thanks.

 

If anyone can advise on the wording of my letter I would very much appreciate it as I have a tendency to state the uneccessary or irrelevent!:roll:

 

Thanks in advance.


Redletter

 

 

'I believe the struggle for financial freedom is unfair - I believe the only ones who disagree are millionaires!'

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Yes just state it as I said it. Let them know there's no pallet or wrap available and they will need to supply it , also it will need 2 persons.

Just keep it brief and simple.

 

And yes if you haven't already just reiterate you are cancelling pursuant to the dsr's.

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Thanks Nagasis

 

Hi, if you are still around could you please have a look at this draft and advise?

 

 

"Hello,

Thank you for your email acknowledging my request to return the faulty items for a refund.

Please be advised that the above request is served to act as written cancellation of the contract within 7 days under the Distance Selling Regulations 2000, due to the goods being faulty/not of satisfactory quality.

Unfortunately, the driver of the delivery vehicle did not leave the pallet behind and as such I am unable to have the goods placed and wrapped on the pallet.

Furthermore I am not available on the specified date of 18/10/12, therefore you will have to arrange a different date.

There can be someone available on a Tuesday between the hours of 08:00 and 12:30 or 13:30 to 16:00, or on a Thursday (as of next week) between the hours of 08:00 and 12:30.

Otherwise a Saturday or Sunday with prior arrangement in all of the above cases.

Please note also that the items are labelled as "over 25kg, 2 man lift" and as such the collection will require 2 operatives to load the goods on the vehicle as the available person will not be able to assist.

Thank You,

Regards,"

 

Thanks in advance.


Redletter

 

 

'I believe the struggle for financial freedom is unfair - I believe the only ones who disagree are millionaires!'

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Yes that's fine. See how you get on with that.

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Yes that's fine. See how you get on with that.

 

Will do. Nice one.

Thanks for taking the time out to help me.

 

Sent Tuesday evening, no reply as yet.


Redletter

 

 

'I believe the struggle for financial freedom is unfair - I believe the only ones who disagree are millionaires!'

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Well as they didn't collect the item today suggests they have read your email. Maybe they are arranging the return which requires delivery of a pallet.

 

Your still entitled to a refund within 30 days regardless of when they collect.

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Well as they didn't collect the item today suggests they have read your email. Maybe they are arranging the return which requires delivery of a pallet.

 

Your still entitled to a refund within 30 days regardless of when they collect.

 

Thanks. So I'm guessing I'm not required to make any further requests or contact, or is there a need to send anything by recorded delivery?


Redletter

 

 

'I believe the struggle for financial freedom is unfair - I believe the only ones who disagree are millionaires!'

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Thanks. So I'm guessing I'm not required to make any further requests or contact, or is there a need to send anything by recorded delivery?

 

No need to do anything at this point as you have already done what you are required to do.

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What happens if I hear nothing within the 21 days?

I could do with this thing shifting out of the way to make way for a different aquarium.


Redletter

 

 

'I believe the struggle for financial freedom is unfair - I believe the only ones who disagree are millionaires!'

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There's no point in thinking what ifs.

There's no harm in resending the email.

Add on the end something like " I look forward to your prompt reply".

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Here we go again! Just received this!.....

 

Dear Redletter,

Not a problem picking up the aquarium set next Tuesday or Thursday ,the time will be between 8am to 6pm, as*the courier cannot state a precise time.*However as previously stated the aquarium set must be sent back exactly how it was delivered on a pallet.* It is your responsibility to obtain a pallet and re wrap the aquarium set in the same*way it was delivered to you, as stated on our delivery page it is delivered to the address and not inside your house.**No courier will accept a glass tank of that size unless it is secure on a pallet, that would be much to dangerous.

When we receive the aquarium set back to us in the same condition as received, we will refund your Internet sale, under our 14 days no quibble return*policy . In this instance we will refund your whole Internet cost including delivery and will also cover the return delivery cost*without supplemental incidences.

Please inform us which day Tuesday 23/10 or Thursday 25/10 you would like the tank picked up.

Regards

Supplier.

Edited by Redletter
Name deleted

Redletter

 

 

'I believe the struggle for financial freedom is unfair - I believe the only ones who disagree are millionaires!'

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Tut tut. I'm on phone atm so will jump on pc in the morning with a better reply.

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Tut tut. I'm on phone atm so will jump on pc in the morning with a better reply.

 

Thanks and could you also then please explain what he means by "

will also cover the return delivery cost without supplemental incidences."???

 

Thanks. Appreciate it.

 

I have drafted an email together but not yet sent it.

Please let me know what you think/advise editing?

I know I tend to waffle about the regs but I feel that most of these online retailers do actually need them explaining-which shouldn't be the case!

Thanks


Redletter

 

 

'I believe the struggle for financial freedom is unfair - I believe the only ones who disagree are millionaires!'

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Dear Sir / Madam,

 

Thank you for your email dated 19th October 2012 upon which the contents have been noted.

 

For your perusal I include below OFT guidance on the distance selling regulations (DSR's) which contain your legal obligations under the said regulations.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf

 

 

I would like to advise you that you are required to provide a refund within a maximum of 30 days of my written cancellation made under the distance selling regulations. You are required to refund the full amount regardless of whether the item is returned or not regardless of condition including condition of packaging. Your 'no quibble refund' policy is in addition to my rights under the DRS's. Further, as the goods have been rejected due to fault you are responsible for any costs involved in the return of the item. Therefore I require by xx/xx/12 a full refund of £xxxx.

 

I note your comments regarding the condition of return of the item.

Again under the distance selling regulations I am not required to return the item in the same packaging as it was delivered. For the avoidance of any doubt the item was delivered in 2 separate boxes only and not on a pallet and this is how it will be collected from myself.

 

Therefore I am not responsible for the palleting and wrapping of the item.

So there is no misunderstanding the item is ready for collection in the two boxes as it was delivered and I will not be obtaining a pallet nor will I be wrapping the boxes to a pallet. Pursuant to the DSR's it is your responsibility.

 

As previously stated in my email dated xx/xx/12 I am available on Tuesday 23/10/12 between the hours of 08:00 and 12:30 or 13:30 to 16:00, or on a Thursday 25/10/12 between the hours of 08:00 and 12:30.

Otherwise a Saturday or Sunday with prior arrangement in all of the above cases. Additionally you will need two persons to lift the item. I nor anyone else is not available to lift this at any point. You will be required to notify your courier of this.

 

WHAT I REQUIRE

 

1) Full refund including delivery charge of £xxxx within 30 days of cancellation and certainly no later than xx/xx/12.

2) Your item to be collected without delay within my schedule dates and times provided.

3) You will need to provide a pallet and your courier will need to wrap the pallet.

4) Two person courier.

 

If you are in any doubt as to your legal obligations under the Distance Selling Regulations I suggest you seek advice from the OFT or a solicitor. They will confirm my position as being correct. I strongly suggest you read the attached Distance Selling Regulations notes to sellers before replying.

 

I look forward to my full refund promptly and await your confirmation of which date you will be collecting the item from the dates and times I have provided.

 

Yours

did I miss anything?

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Well that certainly makes the point in no uncertain terms!

I guess my version was a little too accommodating of his ignorance. I don't think you missed anything at all there.

Thank you for taking the time out to do this for me I really appreciate it.

Thats brilliant thanks again.

 

:)

 

As it was free delivery i will just delete that part of the sentence?

Thanks again.


Redletter

 

 

'I believe the struggle for financial freedom is unfair - I believe the only ones who disagree are millionaires!'

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As it was free delivery i will just delete that part of the sentence?

Thanks again.

yes

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I have just been onto their website and this item has now increased in price by £200. No wonder he is so keen to get it back nicely wrapped.

I suspect he will stick it on sale with a £100 reduction and still make another £100 profit!

:|

 

Thanks.


Redletter

 

 

'I believe the struggle for financial freedom is unfair - I believe the only ones who disagree are millionaires!'

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Hi Nagasis this is the 'advice' I was given elsewhere on a different forum!

I found the general opinion on there to be that I am being unreasonable!

Comments please?

 

Seems to be reasonable the seller will refund the cost and delivery and collection charges on refund and is asking that the goods are returned in original packing safely secured on a pallet and asking when it can be collected,lookslike the OP is making demands such as 2 people shoukd be sent to collect never seen 2 couriers from the most commonly seen companies as regards packing the courier would refuse the load if it was not packed and secured properly why should they after all once he signs for the goods on collection he is responsible does the OP expect a courier to carry goods that may quiet easily be damaged on the journey NO.

I can see many more posts on this thread if the OP. has the collection refused on the grounds that the package was unsafe to handle he seems to want confrontation with internet traders prove me wrong?"

 

I haven't responded to this person but it seems to me they must never have had a fridge delivered from Comet or the likes as they often send 2 people.

 

People like that really annoy me. Why is he even giving advice when it is clearly inaccurate!

I suppose he thinks it 'reasonable' for me to run around trying to get a pallet and some wrapping and for my partner to put her back out attempting to lift a package that clearly says "2 man lift" on EACH of the 2 boxes. I suppose it must also be reasonable for the supplier to ignore his obligations.


Redletter

 

 

'I believe the struggle for financial freedom is unfair - I believe the only ones who disagree are millionaires!'

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I can imagine which forum, and thats the reason I don't go there.

 

Stick to your guns. It is upto the retailer to collect if they want it. Your refund is a legal obligation within 30 days whether the tank sits in your shed until the next ice age.

 

If the retailer wants to send 1 person to collect so be it. They will struggle. Not your problem

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