Benefit fraud accusation. Saying partner lives with me when doesn't!

[Kezza28]

I had a visit from a fraud investigator and I was told there is no 'minimum/maximum night rule anymore. If a person is staying at your address on days off,,if his post is being delivered there,if his car is registered to your address,,if he has a majority of his belongings are kept at your address etc,,any of those indicate he lives at your address..i didn't know any of this either,had my OH's post delivered to my address and his car was registered here and I got done.4k..

 

His post does get sent here and car and everything is registered here but his belongings aren't. I haven't even had a visit, have been asked to attend the interview under caution. Does this mean its really bad? Did u have to go to court?

[abc123def]

Kezza a friend of mine had similar issues she was separated from her xh who was living with his mother but due to her severe MH issues he came to the house daily to care for the children. The car continued to be registered at the FMH too as he hadn't changed it. The investigation said they acknowledged that he was living/sleeping elsewhere but that there remained an emotional connection and due to his car being registered and insured from the FMH that they were financially connected and she has to pay back the £34,000 she had received in benefits. They didn't take her to court though despite the high amount and she is paying it back at an affordable level which will take forever (in her words)

[Lillibelle]

They already knew I couldn't attend an interview (disability) so the finance officer and a witness came to my house.No..I didn't go to court,I have to repay the amount weekly from benefit. Your lot probably know more than they are letting on as to the layman you do appear to be living as husband and wife.He needs to prove he resides elsewhere,which I presume he can?

 

I'm shocked that abc's friend didn't get a 'sentence or tag',,must be paying back at a huge rate pcm

[Kezza28]

They already knew I couldn't attend an interview (disability) so the finance officer and a witness came to my house.No..I didn't go to court,I have to repay the amount weekly from benefit. Your lot probably know more than they are letting on as to the layman you do appear to be living as husband and wife.He needs to prove he resides elsewhere,which I presume he can?

 

I'm shocked that abc's friend didn't get a 'sentence or tag',,must be paying back at a huge rate pcm

 

He can prove that he stops in b and bs during the week, he has all his receipts for that. The problem is that I honestly believed that I wasn't doing anything wrong!! There rules and regulation are so complex that you can't understand it all, he doesn't contribute anything and rightly so, why should he support someone else's child financially?!

[abc123def]

I'm shocked that abc's friend didn't get a 'sentence or tag',,must be paying back at a huge rate pcm

 

I think the reason it didn't go to court or to any criminal proceedings is a combination of the fact that she didn't realise she was doing anything wrong as they were separated and he slept/lived elsewhere and were not in a relationship together with her severe mental health issues. No, she's not paying it back at a huge rate, it is set at an affordable level as worked out by the DWP/LA/tribunal and it is only a small payment so will take many years/forever to pay back. Even a court cannot ask for more than a person can afford so it wouldn't have been any higher had she been taken to court.

[Lillibelle]

Kezza..I don't think b&b receipts are proof he doesn't live with you hun,they prove he works away.He has his post and some clothes there,thats normally proof enough,he stays when he's not away. Just go in and tell the truth,it's not down to you to prove he doesn't live there,it's down to them to prove he does,and they know something to have called you in..Do you have any problems with neighbours? friends? family?....anyone who may have dobbed you in?

[Kezza28]

Am seeing a solicitor tomorrow and they are also going to accompany me to the interview. I have racked my brains trying to think of who has reported me but I keep coming up with a blank. The only thing I can think of is that they have cross referenced with his car, driving license, inland revenue and tax.

It's just all so complicated!!!

[NoworNever]

Sorry to put another spin on it but look at from the other angle. He works away and comes "home" at weekends. His post, belongings etc at your house. Car, driving license, tax and inland revenue records all at yours. Why shouldn't he contribute to your household ? You say he buys his own food when he comes to stay at a weekend - not very plausable is it ?

[Lillibelle]

Good..it's best to take legal advice..no comparisons of cases on forums is really any use as what happens to one person clearly doesn't apply to another and I'm not going to lead you to believe you won't get prosecuted because I just don't know.I hope for your sake it's nothing too major xx Good Luck xx

Edited October 16, 2012 by Lillibelle

[abc123def]

Kezza once the investigation is over you can make a subject access request for your records and there you will see what triggered the investigation if you don't find out sooner at the IUC. You are not allowed to make a SAR until an investigation is over though.

[Kezza28]

Thank you again to everyone for advice, good and bad! I can see how it looks if you don't know the facts but its the truth! If I thought it was illegal and committing fraud I would never have said yes to him using my address. I just honestly thought that because he only stays 3 nights on a weekend (sometimes only 2) and doesn't contribute to the household then it was fine to do so.

 

Obviously I have spoke to my boyfriend and informed him of what's happening and he feels like its all his fault. He wants to move in and support us financially ( it will be a struggle) how would this affect the investigation?

[Lillibelle]

It won't...is the blunt answer....they are investigating what HAS been,,not what WILL be hun and if they were tipped off by someone,you won't be told who it was,thats confidential

[Kezza28]

The other thing is that they are still paying my benefits? Is this normal as I thought they would stop them while investigating?

[jadeybags]

It's highly unlikely someone has informed on you, if his post comes to your address, that shows up on data matches unfortunately.

It has certainly changed over the years, when I first split with my childrens dad 11/12 yrs ago, we still shared a bank account (ok it didn't get used hardly ever) I was still paying his life insurance for a year after & it was only a couple of years ago that I changed the tv license into my name from his. Yet they never questioned any of it.

 

You have been mis informed from the job centre. There is no 3 night rule, & I find it so frustrating that this isn't spelt out to people when they make any claim as a single person!!

The trouble here is there are many husbands, & wives of course, that work away from home, but they send money home etc. They only go home at weekends etc. A partner not living at home during the week does not class someone as single.

You possibly wont be prosecuted, & even less likely going to prison, but to be honest 'in my opinion' they'll want some money back. I would be very surprised if they don't, 7 that's just going by what has happened on here 99% of the time.

The IUC doesn't automatically mean prosecution, lots of us have had them & had no further action. So try & stay strong. Put across the truth. And also kick up a fuss about being miss informed by the job center & benefit depts not making things clear to people!

[sparky514]

Sounds like your boyfriend has got a cushy life, away all week, at yours weekends, and doesn't take you out for meals, just gets his own food, sorry but he doesn't sound like much of a boyfriend to me. But I do hope everything goes ok for you xx

[Kezza28]

Sounds like your boyfriend has got a cushy life, away all week, at yours weekends, and doesn't take you out for meals, just gets his own food, sorry but he doesn't sound like much of a boyfriend to me. But I do hope everything goes ok for you xx

 

I know he sounds awful but he isn't! He has helped me through some very difficult times and supported me and my child emotionally. I had major trust and commitment issues when we first started seeing each other due to my child's sperm donor having a secret family behind my back!! He has helped me to trust and reminded me that not all men are cheating lying scumbags!!

Thank you for your good wishes though

[Kezza28]

It's highly unlikely someone has informed on you, if his post comes to your address, that shows up on data matches unfortunately.

It has certainly changed over the years, when I first split with my childrens dad 11/12 yrs ago, we still shared a bank account (ok it didn't get used hardly ever) I was still paying his life insurance for a year after & it was only a couple of years ago that I changed the tv license into my name from his. Yet they never questioned any of it.

 

You have been mis informed from the job centre. There is no 3 night rule, & I find it so frustrating that this isn't spelt out to people when they make any claim as a single person!!

The trouble here is there are many husbands, & wives of course, that work away from home, but they send money home etc. They only go home at weekends etc. A partner not living at home during the week does not class someone as single.

You possibly wont be prosecuted, & even less likely going to prison, but to be honest 'in my opinion' they'll want some money back. I would be very surprised if they don't, 7 that's just going by what has happened on here 99% of the time.

The IUC doesn't automatically mean prosecution, lots of us have had them & had no further action. So try & stay strong. Put across the truth. And also kick up a fuss about being miss informed by the job center & benefit depts not making things clear to people!

 

I fully agree that they should inform every person claiming as single of the rules and regulations! I will most certainly be bringing up what my advisor told me about the 3 night rule as this is one of the main reasons I didn't know that what I have been doing is classed as benefit fraud! I am more than willing to pay back what I owe but I just don't want to be found guilty of doing it on purpose when I genuinely thought what i was doing was perfectly above board and within the rules. I am a honest and genuine person and if I am wrong I always apologise n try to put right.

[jadeybags]

I fully agree that they should inform every person claiming as single of the rules and regulations! I will most certainly be bringing up what my advisor told me about the 3 night rule as this is one of the main reasons I didn't know that what I have been doing is classed as benefit fraud! I am more than willing to pay back what I owe but I just don't want to be found guilty of doing it on purpose when I genuinely thought what i was doing was perfectly above board and within the rules. I am a honest and genuine person and if I am wrong I always apologise n try to put right.

 

This is when you need to be strong in that interview & make it clear that you wasn't aware you were doing anything wrong, because the main aim of that interview is to tape it & use it against you in court. Sounds sinister but they have a job to do.For a start, if you are not admitting to intentional fraud they need to prove what they are accusing you of (if they end up accusing you) it is pretty standard stuff at the moment the whole IUC, our LA carries them out for over payments of £500 & over, & it's possible they'll believe you & not take it further, request that you update your claim to a couple & pay an amount back over time.

[Wayne C]

I have read this and feel very much for the lady who posted originally, I would love to know exactly how the benefits have came to the conclusion that you have committed fraud, firstly, I don't know the rules on this what so ever and reading through lots of posts about the subject on the net since reading this two hours ago, it seems to me that most people are in the dark Bout the law?. Am I lead to believe that the DSS then consider anyone staying at a partners or friends house overnight as living together?. it seems to me that the lady who posted must have been grassed on to the authorities by a neighbour who has nothing better to do with their time, or feels jealous in some way?. I am having trouble getting my head around this, I have a girlfriend and we are both unemployed and on benefits, probably like 100s of thousands of others nationwide, we choose not to live together as we met and like our independence and own bills and bank accounts and incomings and outgoings which we both pay independently?, So are we now to be worried in case some do gooder considers that we sleep at each others places on the odd night of the week?, How can the DSS prove this lady is in the wrong?, it seems to me that she's telling the truth and like many didn't consider she was committing an offence???

My partner and I have talked about it and we both thought your allowed to stay over two nights maybe three nights a week?, we don't finance one another, both pay separate water, gas electric, food and such like, but enjoy one another's company, we don't live together full time, but reading the afroe mentioned comments it seems that you ain't allowed to stay over period without being classed as co - habiting , I wish some one could be 100% and say this is how it is.?.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Wayne C

[Wayne C]

I'd like to know if its because the chap is working away that the benefits have taken umbridge?, with this poor lady and stays at her home at the weekend?, seems to me that someone has been a right do gooder and opened their mouths without knowing the true story, if anyone can tell me what the main issue the DSS are looking at here?

 

Also I'd like to add on this that I have important mail sent to a care of address, are people saying its illegal to do that now?, as I have had cheques and things like that go missing in the past and don't trust my home address ?

[estellyn]

I'd like to know if its because the chap is working away that the benefits have taken umbridge?, with this poor lady and stays at her home at the weekend?, seems to me that someone has been a right do gooder and opened their mouths without knowing the true story, if anyone can tell me what the main issue the DSS are looking at here?

 

The main issues are no other permanent residence elsewhere, and all post, car insurance etc at her address.

[antone]

Also I'd like to add on this that I have important mail sent to a care of address, are people saying its illegal to do that now?, as I have had cheques and things like that go missing in the past and don't trust my home address ?

 

No, it's perfectly OK to use a care of address, but if the address you choose is that of a person with whom you're in a relationship, it would pay to be very careful that there's no other evidence suggesting that you're cohabiting.

 

In this case, I can easily see how this looks to an investigator. OP's partner uses the address for his mail and his car insurance and stays there whenever he is not out of town working. In effect, her home is his only permanent address. I stress that I believe the OP when she says there was no fraudulent intent and that she didn't know this was an issue. But from a benefits point of view, I would have to say that they will be classed as living together.

 

Here's the guide that DWP DMs should use to determine who is or isn't living together. Section 11070 is probably the relevant one here.

[honeybee13]

I'd like to know if its because the chap is working away that the benefits have taken umbridge?, with this poor lady and stays at her home at the weekend?, seems to me that someone has been a right do gooder and opened their mouths without knowing the true story, if anyone can tell me what the main issue the DSS are looking at here?

 

Also I'd like to add on this that I have important mail sent to a care of address, are people saying its illegal to do that now?, as I have had cheques and things like that go missing in the past and don't trust my home address ?

 

Hello Wayne and thank you for taking an interest in this thread.

 

This problem crops up all the time. I think I've read that there isn't a set number of nights for being together, it's about shared lifestyle and finances if that makes sense. There are multiple threads on this forum with similar problems.

 

My best, HB

[Lillibelle]

My investigating officer made it very clear to me that it is NOT the amount of days/nights (except if it's full time of course) but the post,belongings,insurances and no other fixed abode that are taken into consideration. I was not aware I was doing anything wrong either,,luckily ,it wasn't too harsh but now I make sure I'm whiter than white re benefits cos it's so flaming stressful when it goes wrong

[LongHairedLily]

No sure if anyone has posted this, forgive me if they have.. But in light of the post going to OP address, would it not be pruedent for the Boyfriend t to have his mail directed to a paid PO Box, the Royal Mail site would be site to find more information on this.