Is there a CCA with a mobile contract?

[alexifa]

Does anyone know if my 3g datacard contract with Orange is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act?? I have refused to pay their bill as I have had the card for five months and it ceased to work two months ago. After numerous complaints to Orange, they have continued to send letters demanding payment and enlisted dlc debt recovery to chase me.

 

I recall that I purchased the card and contract over the internet and don't remember signing a credit agreement. If there's no credit agreement can they still register a default if I continue to dispute the payment?

 

Any comments welcome.

[dayglo]

Hello.

 

In my thread here I am investigating whether or not a default notice has any legitimacy when issued by a company claiming that their products are not covered by the CCA, in this case Vodafone.

 

In a nutshell, mobile phone companies are all claiming that their contracts are not 'regulated products' as defined in the Consumer Credit Act and therefore they have no obligation to comply with requests made under the CCA.

[buzby]

I've now reviewed 4 mobile contracts, all are not CCA compliant as no credit agreement is completed. However the 'defaults' for non payment of a bill has about the same potency when reported to a CRA.

[TJHooker1]

Alexifa did you get anywhere with this.

 

Can they register a default with no CCA, I thought I needed to agree for them to report my data to the CRA with a signature.

 

look at my issue if you get chance

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/222691-reply-received-cca-request.html#post2464960

[fredbassett]

Its not a form of credit therefore the CCA is not relevant to a mobile phone contract. You will have agreed to them sending your payment information to the credit reference agencies when you agreed to the contract. They are not obliged to send you our a Default Notice, however most will send a warning letter advising that a default will be recorded for non-payment.

[maroondevo52]

Alexifa asked that question 3 years ago

 

Though just checked and they were on-line on the 22nd of sept this year, so you could well get a reply

[TJHooker1]

fredbasset quote "You will have agreed to them sending your payment information to the credit reference agencies when you agreed to the contract."

 

When did i agree to the contract? where is the proof?

I never agreed so by law they cannot do it, would a letter to the ico help me

[buzby]

When did i agree to the contract? where is the proof?

I never agreed so by law they cannot do it, would a letter to the ico help me

 

Yes you did.

 

Sorry, but this is well trodden ground, and trying to return to erroneous simplistics will not assist others in resolving issues that do not exist.

 

You agreed to the terms of service by entering into a service contract for mobile phone service. Where is the proof? Firstly, proof that the contract exists is based on your payment for the services provided, this is all a court needs to confirm that the agreement exists (otherwise why woud you be paying for a service you never requested?)

 

Their terms and conditions govern the agreement between you, and since 1998 all mobile contracts have clauses that specifically relate to financial reporting of consumers accounts. So 'by law' they are fully within their rights to do so and no law has been broken. If you did not wish this condition imposed upon you, then it was within your power - at the time - to reject it by declining the relevant clause at the time of inception. If this was not done, then it forms the basis of the agreement. Of course, if you removed all the caluses you didn't like, the firm can decline to have you as a customere, and this is a risk that you have to take - play it their way or not at all.

[TJHooker1]

If I agreed to the terms of the service CONTRACT, a written agreement of material evidence (the written contract itself) is needed to prove the actual terms at the time the agreement was struck.

 

There is no written contract, so there is no evidence, so no right to report my data.

 

Time will tell, I wont rollover, I never lose.

[buzby]

C'mon now - now you're just being silly. Where on earth does it say an airtime agreement (a contract for service) has to be in writing? If you've never heard of verbal contracts, you've led a very sheltered existence.

 

There's no requirement for any contract to be 'written', but it can help when it is when one or other party decides to break it as it makes it easier to apportion blame when it comes to court. I've already explained where the evidence of existence comes from and the reasons behind it. However, no skin off my nose if you want to wring yourself out to dry and destroy your credit file - something that happens with little or no stress, not even court action.

 

As for never losing - you've not defined what you believe is 'success'. If it is that there's no 'contract' because one wasn't 'written' you've already lost. However, I'm more concerned about others who think you might have a legitimate complaint (when you don't) as it would be unfair on them to walk unknowingly into a trap.

Edited October 1, 2009 by buzby

[TJHooker1]

I will define success as when I post on here that I have the default (oct 2005) removed from my file.

 

I'm also concerned about others who think they have a legitimate reason to suppress legitimate comments in a forum.

 

p.s I hate BT, should be bankrupt anyday.

[buzby]

1) That success isn't the issue (of declating a non-written contract as somehow unenforceable).

 

2) You've lost me there. I don't believe anyone has 'suppressed' your point of view.

 

3) No argument from me, but who's going bankrupt, you or them?

 

PS BT don't report defaults to credit reference agencies, so I've not got a clue what you are on abour, unless it is a snide remark on my Avatar? In which case you're still wrong... Buzby was a product of Post Office Telephones, not BT.

Edited October 1, 2009 by buzby

[Belaflat]

Sorry to jump in and Hijack this old thread...well it was started a while ago anyway...Busby, re the contract issue, if a written contract did in fact exist at some point and the provider of the service was to send a subsequent letter stating they no longer held any details of an agreement of contract, what would the position be re enforcement options.

I am asking this for someone who has had a Stat Demand served for such a debt and has received notification as outlined above.

[buzby]

There is no such thing as a Stat Demand for a mobile contract, as there's no credit involved. If you mean a letter stating that the contract has ended in default and you now have to pay XXX, this is a simplw demand for payment of a contract to cover its closure... not an SD.

 

As for the network not holding any details of the contract (as originally agreed) they can show the current contract and its T&C's (which eill usually state that you agree to subsequent revisions). Then with a list of payments from you, will prove that the contract must have existed (otherwise why would you have been making those payments, if you hadn't?). I dislike this sloppy approach, but as the CCA provisions are not required, the courts have been happy to uphold this way of working - that said, the chances of being taken to court are slim, the business model is usually to sell off the debt.

[Belaflat]

Sorry Busby, should have elaborated, the account in question had been passed to a DCA who subsequently issued a stat demand for the outstanding amount. The original poster had sent off for information from the service provider and got back the letter stating no contract was available.

Its over in the debt collection forums, NCI stat demand for Orange account.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/219623-urgent-help-required-sd.html

[buzby]

Fine - got it.

[robnfc]

throught id bump this thread and try to get some more opinions as ive just had a very interesting conversation with the ICO about this subject.

 

Basically while mobile phone contracts state they are not covered under CCA regs , large wads of terms and conditions will fall under the remit of a credit agreeement and "like it or not they do fall within CCA regs" his words!!

 

He explained that “line rental” as well as inclusive minutes, texts and so on are considered credit if the consumer cannot terminate the contract early without paying the balance off. For example, if your contract costs you £20 per month, and you have 10 months to run, and your operator tells you it will cost you £200 to terminate early, you have then taken out a loan without knowing it and therefore this will fall under the remit of a loan agreement.

 

AND........

 

The provision of the handset and SIM may be considered to be regulated hire or hire purchase agreement under the CCA depending on if they remain the property of the mobile phone provider or whether they transfer to the hirer (consumer).

Edited January 29, 2010 by robnfc

[buzby]

Sorry, but he's expressing an opinion, and a pretty flawed on at that. Large 'wads' of words are the same in a service contract that also appear in a credit agreement, but that doesn't make them the same. To be of relevance, they HAVE to extend you some for of credit. Since your bill MUST be paid at the month end, none is provided, and not have to be regulated, people selling phone contracts do not have to be 'licenced credit brokers' - which they would be.

 

In the situation you point out £20/10 months and £200 to terminate early, this is the cost of exiting your agreement, it is not credit - as you have to pay if off immediately

 

The last sentence is impenetrable. It 'may' also be considered free (or not). If you care to give me this guys name and contact number, I'd really like to have a word with him.... but he may not be in his job for very long. (When you think about it, it isn't for the ICO to deal with FSA matters - but heck, they pretty awful at looking after data protection, why not REALLY mess it up for everyone else too!

 

:)

[robnfc]

sorry never took name , to honest i was a bit bemused at what he was actually saying , although the way he explained it was alot better then what i have done.

 

I think what he was saying was , forget the phone and the other bits that come with with , if a company provide you with service that you dont use , you would cancel the contract , but if you cancel the contract and there is money owing there must have been money owing as soon as you opened the account , therefore they have offered advanced payment to cover the line rental if they didnt offer this then there would be nothing owing when you cancel. head hurting

[buzby]

It's a circular argument that doesn;t go anywhere. The bottom line, is 'Do they offer credit'. This means an agreement that allows the customer to pay off a larger amount in equal instalments, with interest being added on the diminishing amount owed.

 

As mobile contracts do not do this, the CCA is not applicable.

[robnfc]

yeah i know what your saying, i might ring them back see what the hell he was talking about because he said as for data protection we would need to see more information , but its look to be a breach of CCA , thats when i questioned what he was talking about and the above "advise" came out.

[robnfc]

well that was a waste of time , off to trading stardards , lets see what they have to say , bare with me.

[robnfc]

right im not sitting on hold for the rest of time ....to be continued