HELP NEEDED - parking ticket fine - Baliffs reject my vunerable household plea

[pipwri]

Hi Guys,

I hope someone can help.

 

I will be as clear as I can

 

- the long and short of it is that I appealed a parking ticket as I was unaware that I had one until the baliffs came calling.

 

All paperwork was sent to my old address so I did not get the opportunity to sort it out.

 

The council dont want to know and I had a hearing at my local court to which they threw my appeal out.

 

The baliffs are demanding £497 (for a £25 ticket)

- I have written a letter to the baliff company as advised on one of the forums and stated that guidelines state that where the baliffs are dealing with a vunerable household (ie me)

- they should refer it back to the council.

 

I am currently not working as I have been made redundant (and having worked the last 20 years of my life solidly)

- and am claiming income support for the first time in my life.

 

I have now received a letter back from the baliff company stating that 'simply benig unemployed and in receipt of income support does not necessarily mean that you are a vunerable person in respect of enforcement action.'

 

The letter goes on that the NSEA is not a legal binding instrument but guidance only.

 

They are therefore going to continue enforcement action.

 

I honestly cannot afford to pay them

- the only real asset I have is my car and since we live 11 miles from school and essentially in the middle of nowhere I need trasnsport.

there are no buses or trains here and I have three children.

I am really worried now and would appreciate anyones help.

 

Thanks so much.

[unclebulgaria67]

The CAG site team don't like links to be provided, but there are some very good sites on your rights in regard to bailifss. Google, bailiff parking fine and you will find many sites.

 

The fees seem very high, so challenge them, by asking for a breakdown and proof of any actions for which they are trying to charge.

 

Keep your car away from the house or locked in a garage. Never let them into your home. See if you can contact the court to explain your situation and ask for their help. Can they help you negotiate an affordable repayment level.

 

Unless you are ill or are looking after someone vulverable in your home, simply being unemployed is not vulnerable in all circumstances. The bailiff has to take this into account, when they deal with you. i.e you may not be able to pay the amount, so would need to be able to pay in instalments.

 

Can you explain how you appealed the parking ticket previously.

Edited October 13, 2012 by MARTIN3030

[pipwri]

Thanks Unclebulgaria,

yes i first became aware of the parking ticket when the baliff knocked on the door

- I was shocked as I had not been aware of a ticket whatsoever

(Iknow lots of people fabricate this but in my case it is the truth).

 

I phoned the council but they said that I could appeal to TEC and they would consult with the council

but as a rule the council man said they almost routinely reject all appeals, which they did mine!

 

I then asked for a hearing at my local court (£80) and the judge dismissed my case saying that I should have had my post redirected

and then I would have received the documentation etc.

 

I thought this was very lame and I said I didnt agree but that was that.

 

I was under the impression that the council had an obligation to reissue a NTO at the present and correct address but this did not seem the case.

[i hate bailiffs]

you will need to protect your car if you have a garage use it but if your garage is detached they can force entry into it to levy/remove car

 

bailiffs will be after two things money or the car hide the car from them!!!

[pipwri]

I forgot to add - I have asked for a creakdown of fees - basically three visits have been made. They have charged two separate removal fees on top of the visit fee (even though he came in a small vehicle with no tow bar so couldnt possibly have moved my car) and I dont beleive they had a tow vehicle booked or anything like that. They are just loading up on the debt.

[unclebulgaria67]

Did you appeal to the TEC ?

 

What were the grounds for the appeal ?

 

Have you got a copy of the parking ticket ? If not. have you asked the council to provide a copy? ( suggest that you do)

 

Can you post up the details of what the bailiff is charging. Not the total amount, but there should be more information about the fees.

 

Did you not advise DVLA of your change of address for your driving licence and V5 registration document ? I suspect this is the reason for not being successful with appeal, as you had a legal requirement to advise DVLA, as soon as you changed address or within 28 days I think.

[pipwri]

I didnt think there was a legal requirement to change the address at the dvla within 28 adys - I have tried googling this but nothing comes up.

Exact Fees are:

11/4/12 Letter Charge £13.44

15/5/12 Attendance to Remove £114.00

15/5/12 First Attendance or LEvy £33.60

12/6/12 Third Attendance or Levy £72.08

16/7/12 Second Attendance or Levy £68.33

01/8/12 Fourth Attendance or Levy £114.00

 

I have taken this info word for word and in the order they have written it down on the printout they sent me. I have to add that I have not spoken to the baliff or agreed anything regarding this suffice to say that the baliff came by just before my hearing and I explained the situation to him - I went away without charging again on that occasion - but these fees seem over the top to me. What do you think

[pipwri]

Sorry I made a typo on that last post - meant to say - he went away on that occasion.....

[pipwri]

I did appeal to TEC but it was rejectred - grounds were that I didnt get the NTO or other docs due to house move.

[hallowitch]

well they cant charge an attendance to remove fee and a visit fee on the same day

 

they cant charge the attendance to remove fee without a prior levy

 

they cant charge 4 visit fees legislation only allows for 3 visit fees

 

what council and bailiff firm are you dealing with

[pipwri]

Pembrokeshire County Council and Excel Civil Enforcement. I have offered to pay the council for the ticket but they wont have any of it now - they say its out of their hands.

[pipwri]

How do I know if they have levied the car? The times they came they never took the car so how can they charge the remove fee?

[pipwri]

Oh, and notice the dates - they have got the second and third attendance round the wrong way

[unclebulgaria67]

Not being critical here, as we all have points of principle. But you obviously did not want to pay the original parking ticket, so appealed TEC which was rejected and then spent £80 on magistrates fees to appeal for a £25 ticket.

 

You are now faced with paying for the £25 ticket, plus the letter and first three visits i.e a total of £212.45. Not sure why the visits are charged at different rates and I am sure you can dispute these as being unreasonable.

 

Next move is to challenge the fees and ask for a copy of the warrant of execution. You would need to send the bailiffs a subject access request (s.7) which is pursuant to section 7 of the Data Protection 1998.

[pipwri]

Hi again, I will challenge the fees a ask for the warrant. What happens if they come in the meantime - trouble is there are very few places (if any) that i can hide my car, so if i dont answer the door i am worried that they will take it. Incidently, I didnt ever recall getting the ticket in the first place and subsequently offered to pay the council for the ticket but they said it had gone to the baliff already

[i hate bailiffs]

if you don't get the car tucked away neighbors garage family members place somewhere at least

the bailiffs will be after two things money or your car once they get the car they tend to get the money as people will find a way to pay

 

you will have to sort the car otherwise they will take it

[old bill]

The fees bailiffs are permitted to legitimately charge are regulated by the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) Regulations 1993-2003. I have to agree with others that the fees Excel are charging are not only excessive, but not in accordance with legislation either. As for the local authority involved, they need to be reminded that they are 100% vicariously-liable for Excel's actions and it is they who would be taken to court for allowing their contracted enforcement agent to flout the law. The local authority really does not have any excuse or defence in this respect.

 

I am attaching copies of the legislation referred to in the preceding paragraph as well as a document that takes you through the process of making a formal complaint to OFT Credit Fitness Team against Excel. You will need to quote the following details in your complaint -

 

Company Name: Excel Civil Enforcement Group Limited

CCA Licence No.: 629635

 

Also, I am attaching the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines which you should quote in your complaint. Read through them, note which guidelines have been breached and list them in your complaint.

 

Lastly, the MoJ National Standards for Enforcement Agents are attached. The local authority has signed up to these, along with Excel. They have no excuse for not complying with them.

OFT Debt Collection Guidelines (2011).pdf

Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) Regs 1993.pdf

Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) Regs 2003.pdf

national-standards-enforcement-agents.pdf

[lookinforinfo]

I am surprised that the TEC did reject your appeal. After all, you did not get any letters about the PCN because of your change of address. It does seem

unfair that other who have appealed on that same reason are allowed to restart the whole process. Do you know on what grounds your appeal was turned

down.

Wonder what anyone thinks of re appealing or asking the TEC to reconsider since, whatever the reason you did not receive the statutory notifications the

correspondence going to an old address is surely proof that you did not receive them.

[brassnecked]

I wonder if it was the LA that rejected the submission, rather than the TEC?

[Surfer01]

Was the summons for the current address or previous address? Has a new summons been done for current address?

[smokejumper]

How much is your car worth, I believe there is a minimum value that they are not allowed to levy on.

 

I'm no where near as experienced as any of the other members, but perhaps they will add to this.

 

I'm also surprised at your appeal being turned down, as I read a couple of years ago, that most appeals are granted, I had an appeal upheld.

 

I think they should at least just be looking for the original parking fine ( the reduced amount, that you pay in 14 days).

 

Also ask them what proof they have, most attendants now take a picture at the scene.

 

Just to add, you learn something every day, by your mistakes. I parked in a free parking bay, behind a disabled vehicle, that had a sign asking to keep 3 feet behind. I did as the notice asked and was probably 10" over the bay white line. I got a ticket for this, common sense does not prevail ;-) rather than stree myself any further I paid the fine, although my curteousy is now more guarded.

[hallowitch]

goods levied must cover all bailiff fees including removal fees storage fees auction fees and a portion of the debt

 

if the value of the goods wont cover this then they should not be levied

[pipwri]

The Local Authority rejected my appeal - their defence was they followed all relevant proceedures and when I took it to my local court the judge said it was my fault that I didnt get the correspondence as I should have placed a redirect on my mail. I have read other posts where the LA has reissued the NTO to the correct address and to be honest I was expecting the same and was shocked when it didnt go my way. I genuinely didnt get any correspondence and no mail was forwarded on or returned to the council quite simply because no one is living in my old house. The baliff fees are extortionate but when I spoke to the council representative after the hearing he said it was definately out of their hands - but when I pressed him further it appears that they just wont take it back to council administration. I have complained to the baliff company but they are still going ahead with enforcement despite the fact that I am on income support and a struggling single mother of three.

[Surfer01]

There is no law that states that you must have your mail re-directed. If you think you have notified every one, why would you need you mail re-directed especially if you ar eon low income and cannot afford the redirection costs. I think magistrate/judge has over stepped their authority and needs to be reported.

[pipwri]

I totally agree with you Surfer01 - I didnt get a redirection because of the costs and the fact I was only there 6 months. I telephoned/wrote/emailed the important institutions - ie school, bank, insurance so indeed why would I fork out money for redirection. I told the judge on the day that there was no law to get a redirection but he just said to me - 'well what if people want to write to you?' - I reinterated that I had contacted everyone that might want to. He just didnt like that fact that I stood up to him. The bottom line being that he said that the council had followed their guidelines and done everything they should. I said that they should review their proceedures as if they had carried out a dvla address check just before ihaving the warrant issued they would have found my new address but Im afraid everything I said to defend myself fell on deaf ears. I was in a room with two 'important' men and they couldnt be proved wrong by a woman could they?!! Other people posting on here were given the opportunity to have the council reissue an NTO - I wasnt - surely the law applies to all? I now need to sort the baliffs - thanks to you guys I can prepare another letter. My car is worth probably £1000 - an oldish landrover freelander - its going to be hard to hide it - I live in the middle of nowhere and only one neighbour next door (who I wouldnt necessarily want knowing my business) and apart from that I am surrounded by loads of fields.

I'm afraid I agree with smokejumper - commonsense just does not seem to apply anymore - what a world. The amount of times I could say that..........