Possible Barclays PPI Issues

[DevonHillBilly]

Hi all,

 

let me try to explain everything in as much detail as I can and in chronological order.

 

When my wife and I met we both had individual Barclays accounts and then when we married we, as most people do combined to a sole Barclays joint account.

 

We no longer hold a Barclays account as we closed it in June 2004.

 

Now skip forward a number of years where we decided to make a PPI claim with Barclays.

 

Not really thinking it would be a problem, we sent a joint SAR request enclosing the standard £10 cheque.

 

About a week later Barclays sent back a letter stating that they could not find any information on their system for us and that we would need to furnish them with account number etc for them to be able to go any further, they also said that all PPI claims need to be made individually and that this requires a payment of £10 per applicant, and they also returned our £10 cheque.

 

This letter seemed a little stupid to me becuase the reason for asking for the SAR was to be able to find the account numbers etc, if we had them in the first place then why would we ask for an SAR.

The £10 charge per applicant also seemed a little funny because surely being a joint account means that my wife's & my information would overlap on each SAR anyway.

 

Okay, maybe a little more info is needed.

 

In 2007 both myself and my wife changed our surnames by Deed Poll and have the relevant legal paperwork to show this.

 

Since having the joint account with Barclays, we of course have moved address.

 

When we sent our SAR request to Barclays we stated our current name for contact purposes but also laid out in bold type our previous name and addresses which we had when holding the account.

 

Anyway, we decided to make two individual PPI claims last week and again sent them the SAR request form, again stating in bold type our old surname on the request letter. Enclosed with each claim we sent:

 

 

• A covering letter again containing previous addresses that we had when holding the account.
  
• A copy of our Deed Poll Certificate.
  
• A copy of our Marriage Certificate.
  
• A copy of our current Council Tax Bill, that shows our current address.
  
• A £10 cheque for the fee.
  

Like I said, we made to seperate claims, one in my name and one in my wife's name.

They were sent recorded as standard practice.

-------

Today both myself and my wife have received identical letters back from Baclays and although they did indeed send these letters to our current address, Barclays have used our old names as the addressee.

 

The letters basically say that they have received our requests and the information will be collated.

 

There is however an added part on the letters asking us to fill in a seperate form that is attached, to give the Barclays branch address that we would like to collect the package from and that we would need to provide ID suah as UK Passport or full driving licence.

 

Having already made a successful PPI claim with Sainsburys bank where they sent the SAR direct to my home address, we find it rather strange that Barclays will not do this, that we have to collect it.

 

The problem we both have is the producing ID part, would the branch that we collect the SAR from except our full driving licences in our current name as it seems that Barclays are corresponding to us in our previous name. Would showing our driving licence along with our Deed Polls suffice?

 

Also having had a problem in the past making a Sainsburys Bank PPI claim where Sainsburys did honour the claim but sent out cheques in our old names, which took ages to resolve and a call to the FOS or ICO, can't remember which one I called, to shake them up a bit before they eventually issued the cheques in out current name, we are worried that the same is going to happen here.

 

I tried calling Barclays on the number stated on the letter 08457555555 but they cannot put me through to the Privacy & Data Protection Dept, they said that that department is only contactable via a letter.

 

All I am trying to ask them is that they have the correct information on their system regarding our surname change, that they should correspond to us using our current and correct surname and that why they cannot just send the SAR to our home address.

 

Is it the FOS or the ICO that I should call to complain, like I have said, it was one of these organisations I called when I was getting no joy myself talking to Sainsburys Bank in the past and the women that I spoke to at either the FOS or the ICO just took my details and she had called me back within a couple of hours with a result. This caused Sainsburys Bank to reissue a cheque to us within a week.

 

 

Any help would be appreciated..

 

 

Kind regards..,

[slick132]

Hi DHB,

 

Barclays often send SAR responses to the branch for collection. Reasons for this may be :-

 

1. To ensure you provide ID at the branch to satisfy the bank you are the person entitled to the data.

 

2. To save on postage when sending out heavy parcels of data sheets.

 

I suggest, when the info is ready for collection, that you take with you :-

 

* Whatever old proof you have to show your old name and address that would appear on the Barclays data (if you have this).

 

* Copies of the Deed Poll doc'ts confirming the old and new names.

 

* Proof of your current name and address with photo ID, recent services utility bills and anything else you think may be useful.

 

Barclays may not be as co-operative as Sainsbury's but, once you've done what the bank require, you should be able to progress your PPI claims.

 

Don't bother speaking to them by phone - keep everything in writing only, so you have a good papertrail.

 

If you have difficulty getting data from Barclays, the ICO is where you'd complain.

 

If you have trouble getting the bank to refund in the new name(s), then the FOS would be the body to complain to.

 

Using either of these may involve considerable delays, depending on what stage you're at with the bank.

 

[DevonHillBilly]

Hi All

 

Wrote seperate letters from each of us requesting our details and records. Sent each with its own £10 cheque which to date still haven't been cashed. The letters were posted 16th Oct by recorded signed for. I have checked RM and they have been signed for at there end.

 

I am lost now as to why they aren't cashing the cheques and also why they haven't even responded to say they can't access or have not got any of our records/info.

 

please advise the next best course of action as i know this will drag on if left any longer!

 

Kind regards

DHB

 

I have heard about a letter that you send when it comes close to 40days but locating it on here is like finding a needle in a haystack Ta!

[slick132]

Hi DHB,

 

Remember they have 40 days to respond.

 

If they don't, see here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?593-Data-Protection-Act-Non-Compliance-Template-Letters

 

[DevonHillBilly]

Hi,

 

finally both myself and my husband have got our respective SARs from Barclays and now we are trawling through the mass of paperwork trying to collate things as we both originally had individual accounts with them when we first met and then amalgamated into one joint account.

 

So far we have a couple of issues with my husbands paperwork.

 

In amongst it, as with mine, there is a section headed Pre-Qual - PPI which lists all accounts, loans and credit cards etc...

 

Now, on my husband's sheet it states:

 

BARCLAYLOAN PROTECTED - 01/07/1997 to 19/11/2002 but a PPI Flag of U for unconfirmed.

 

Now a few things about this. Looking through the statements that they have sent for this loan the earliest entry is 24/12/1997, so we do not have any information from the start of the loan i.e. 01/07/1997 and thus cannot see the initial loan amount or insurance amount.

 

Barclays have stated in a covering letter that they could not find the original agreement for this loan because of it's age, which in all honesty I am not bothered about but how can they express the loan's start date on the Pre-Qual but then don't include the statement for this loans from this start date?

 

I know, as I stated that the loan shows a PPI status of unconfirmed but it does say PROTECTED on the print out and looking at the initial earliest amount balance on the statement dated 24/12/1997, I do not think that Barclays would have lent it without some form of insurance as we had no form of security at that time.

 

My next issue is again on my husbands Pre-Qual print out and that is the Credt Card Details section.

 

It shows all the information i.e. Card Number, Account Open Date, Account PPI Flag as Y Premium Present.

 

It also shows PPI Start Date, which is clear but under the heading of PPI End Date the last two characters are missing from the year figure because of the way that the sheet has been printed.

 

I guess we could get them to resend this information in a clearer form?

 

Should there also be a set of statements showing transactions for the Credit Card?

 

How do we proceed with a Credit Card PPI claim?

 

Regards..,

[slick132]

Hi DHB,

 

Remember, the SAR is a request for data, not specific doc'ts. So you are entitled to the transaction history for a credit card (for instance) but it doesn't HAVE to be supplied in the form of copy statements.

 

If you think the PPI end date is relevant, go back to them and request a clearer copy. However, couldn't you just assume the PPI lasted through the life of the card or do you think you cancelled the PPI at some stage.

 

[DevonHillBilly]

Hi DHB,

 

Remember, the SAR is a request for data, not specific doc'ts. So you are entitled to the transaction history for a credit card (for instance) but it doesn't HAVE to be supplied in the form of copy statements.

 

If you think the PPI end date is relevant, go back to them and request a clearer copy. However, couldn't you just assume the PPI lasted through the life of the card or do you think you cancelled the PPI at some stage.

 

 

Hi Slick,

 

thanks for replying.

 

So I need to contact them again and request the transaction history of the credit card?

 

Should they also be able to supply me with the missing first 5 months of the loan statements given that they have stated the loan stated in the July but only sent me statements starting the December following this?

 

Yes, the PPI would have lasted the life of the card but because the last 2 digits of the ending year are missing on the printout, I cannot see the ending year and given that it was a number of years ago, I cannot remember.

 

Regards..,

[slick132]

Hi Slick,

 

thanks for replying.

 

So I need to contact them again and request the transaction history of the credit card? Yes, you need this to check for PPI and for penalty charges.

 

Should they also be able to supply me with the missing first 5 months of the loan statements given that they have stated the loan stated in the July but only sent me statements starting the December following this? Depends on the dates. They'll say they have nothing older than 6 years although we have found they DO have the data if you take court action to obtain it.

 

Yes, the PPI would have lasted the life of the card but because the last 2 digits of the ending year are missing on the printout, I cannot see the ending year and given that it was a number of years ago, I cannot remember. If you can get transaction data, it won't matter what year the PPI finished.

 

Regards..,

 

Use the SAR Non-Compliance letter from the library and adapt it for your own case - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?593-Data-Protection-Act-Non-Compliance-Template-Letters

 

[DevonHillBilly]

Use the SAR Non-Compliance letter from the library and adapt it for your own case - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?593-Data-Protection-Act-Non-Compliance-Template-Letters

 

 

Thanks again slick, I will be sending them the Template 2 letter, this should cover me to get all the remaining information.

 

Regards..,

[DevonHillBilly]

As a side note, my husband has held an account with Barclays from 1985 up until he closed it in 2004 and during that time he had various loans.

 

Are Barclays required to send all the remaining statements of his account prior to January 1998, which is only what they have sent so far?

 

If they are required to send all the remaining information I can add this to the non-compliance letter at the same time as requesting the other stuff.

 

Kind regards..,

[slick132]

The reality is that they'll usually provide data going back only 6 years unless you force the issue using court action.

 

It may be worth doing this for PPI on loans, credit cards etc.

 

But if you're just looking to reclaim penalty charges older than 6 years, this may not be worth doing as you also have to get past the problem of the Limitation Act 1980 which limits you to reclaiming charges for 6 years (5 in Scotland).

 

[DevonHillBilly]

The reality is that they'll usually provide data going back only 6 years unless you force the issue using court action.

 

It may be worth doing this for PPI on loans, credit cards etc.

 

But if you're just looking to reclaim penalty charges older than 6 years, this may not be worth doing as you also have to get past the problem of the Limitation Act 1980 which limits you to reclaiming charges for 6 years (5 in Scotland).

 

 

Well we got a letter back from Barclays after sending the Letter Before Action, this is what it says:

 

--------------------

 

Dear Mr *****

 

Subject Access Request

 

We write in reference to your recent letter dated 3rd December 2012.

 

Regrettably, we are unable to provide you with Barclaycard statements as requested. We cannot locate you on the Barclaycard system as the account is too old (over 6 years).

 

With regards to your barclayloan, we have provided you with all the information we can locate.

The right of access under the Data Protection Act covers information held electronically and in certain highly structured manual files (known as a 'relevant filing system'). Information that is not held electronically or in a relevant filing system will not be covered by this request.

Unfortunately, the first few months of your loan are not held within a relevant filing system.

 

I am sorry we could not be of more assistance on this occasion.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Barclays Subject Access Team

 

--------------------

 

I really need to know now what our next step should be?

 

We cannot fathom how Barclays can say they have no further information regarding the missing loan statements from 01/07/1997 to 24/12/1997 because how else would they be able to show that the loan was taken out on 01/07/1997.

Without this initial statement there is no way for us to work out the insurance payment and then put our claim into the excel spreadsheet.

It just seems like Barclays know that this first statement is needed and are with-holding it.

Like I have said, how can they put the loan start date as 01/07/1997 on the info with my SAR paperwork but then turn around and say that they have no other information because of the 'non-relevant filing system', surely the loan start date would also have been on the same 'non-relevant filing system'?

 

Again, a similar issue with the Barclaycard transaction request we sent, they again have basically said that my husband is not on the system, well how can this be so if with the SAR paperwork we have got from Barclays, it shows, account number, start date, PPI flag etc...?

 

What would be our next step in order to make a claim with Barclays?

 

Is it possible to make a claim without the excel interest spreadsheet?

 

Do we call the ICO?

 

Kind regards..,

 

DHB

[slick132]

Hi DHB,

 

Barclays have said to many customers that info is not available or the data required is not held in a relevant system, for the purposes of a SAR.

 

The ICO will often take too long to deal with your complaint and may well come back saying there's nothing you can do to get older data.

 

So the realistic option is to pursue through the court seeking nominal damages and an order for disclosure of the required data. Barclays will normally then supply the data.

 

Have a look at this thread - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?361907-Barclaycard-SAR-for-Charges

 

It may be worth writing one last time to Barclays saying what data you still require for which a/c's. Head the letter Letter Before Action so they have adequate warning of your intentions.

 

[DevonHillBilly]

Hi DHB,

 

Barclays have said to many customers that info is not available or the data required is not held in a relevant system, for the purposes of a SAR.

 

The ICO will often take too long to deal with your complaint and may well come back saying there's nothing you can do to get older data.

 

So the realistic option is to pursue through the court seeking nominal damages and an order for disclosure of the required data. Barclays will normally then supply the data.

 

Have a look at this thread - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?361907-Barclaycard-SAR-for-Charges

 

It may be worth writing one last time to Barclays saying what data you still require for which a/c's. Head the letter Letter Before Action so they have adequate warning of your intentions.

 

 

Hi Slick,

 

thanks for responding, we have already sent an LBA to Barclays, my post above shows their reply to it.

 

We have another issue that we could do with some help on though.

 

When working out the monthly PPI amount that is part of the monthly repayment of a loan we have always used in the past, this equation:

 

(PPI / (AMOUNT BORROWED + PPI)) * 100 = PERCENTAGE OF MONTHLY REPAYMENT

 

so for example:

 

Amount borrowed = £500

Insurance amount = £73.92

Monthly repayment = £23.78

this works out to be:

 

(73.92 / 573.92) * 100 = 12.88%

 

In the case of this loan £3.06 of the monthly repayment of £23.78 is the PPI amount.

 

With this example loan we paid a total of 25 repayments at £23.78 and 1 final payment of £31.43

 

So here the actual cost of the PPI premium that we paid over the course of the loan is:

 

25 * £3.06 = £76.50

1 * £4.05 = £4.05

 

making a grand total of £80.55, which is nerly £7 higher than the premium staed on the loan statement.

 

Now this is just one example, we have two other Barclayloans where the exact same thing occurs, i.e. it calculates that we have paid back more for the insurance than is on the initial outline of the loan.

 

Obviously when we then transfer the figures into the StatIntSheet.xls file, it is noticeable straight away.

 

We have used this same system in the past on other PPI claims with other lenders and never had this problem.

 

What the heck could be going wrong?

 

There is another thing in relation to our Barclayloans, the interest charged each months fluctuates up as well as down and we would have thought that as repayments are made so the outstanding balance is coming down, therefore the interest should also fall.

 

I mean, there is a downward trend in the interest charged but every now and again there appears to be a small increase before it settles down again.

 

Please help.

 

Kind regards..,

[ims21]

What the heck could be going wrong?

 

Interest on the PPI part of the loan.

 

There is another thing in relation to our Barclayloans, the interest charged each months fluctuates up as well as down and we would have thought that as repayments are made so the outstanding balance is coming down, therefore the interest should also fall.

 

I mean, there is a downward trend in the interest charged but every now and again there appears to be a small increase before it settles down again.

 

The interest fluctuations are probably due to the calculations being made daily but applied monthly and accounting for different numbers of days in the months etc,

[DevonHillBilly]

Interest on the PPI part of the loan.

 

 

 

The interest fluctuations are probably due to the calculations being made daily but applied monthly and accounting for different numbers of days in the months etc,

 

Hi ims,

 

should we be at all concerned by the variation in the figures?

 

why have we only noticed this with Barclayloans and never on other lenders?

 

Kind regards..,

[ims21]

If the loan ran its natural course and you didn't end up paying more than was on the agreement then there is no cause for concern.