Can Newlyns Levy & Charge to Remove on same day? (1st Visit) Business rates.

[Jameswoods]

Hi,

 

New to the forum, hope all is well!

 

I've paid my outstanding business rates direct to the council after a visit from Newlyns. They are trying to charge me for a levy and removal of goods £335, but this was on a first visit, the levy is £68 and the removal fee makes up the rest. They got inside so I dont have a problem paying the levy but I read that they can't charge for both on the first visit with no prior warning.

 

I've read this forum and written to the CEO of the council and asked for a breakdown etc. They are quoting Section 1 C of the non domestic rating, regulation 14. No breakdown has been provided and the CEO/Council have not responded. Lastest letter was sent to me on the 4th.

 

What should be my next step?

 

Thanks so much

 

James

[tomtubby]

What was "levied" upon?

 

How much was the Liability Order ( according to the council)

[sgtbush]

Close Possession

We will give just a brief description of this process as it is very rare indeed and would normally only apply if the goods seized are in business premises or the seized items are very valuable. Close Possession simply means that the bailiff will be left on the premises to guard the goods as a “possession man” to ensure that the goods are kept safe and are not removed.

Immediate Removal

In this case the bailiff does not enter into any agreement with you but immediately removes the goods from the premises for sale by auction at the end of the first visit. Again, this is very rare and happens in less than 1 case in every 100. Legally, the bailiff’s role is to enforce a warrant or liability…..but if he did this he would not receive much money. The bailiff would much prefer to have the debt paid, with removal of the goods being a last resort. Very often, the mere threat of removal is enough to ensure that payment is made, either by borrowing money or using funds that are desperately needed for utility bills and other essential items.

To remove items from inside your home or business, the bailiff would first have to gain “peaceful entry”

[Jameswoods]

What was "levied" upon?

 

How much was the Liability Order ( according to the council)

 

Hi Tom, thanks for replying,

 

It was for £1600, I made a payment of £1000 and then £600 immediately after the bailiff visit, direct to the council. The bailiff levied on an old TV and a compressor unit (which is the landlords as part of fixtures and fittings)

[Jameswoods]

Close Possession

We will give just a brief description of this process as it is very rare indeed and would normally only apply if the goods seized are in business premises or the seized items are very valuable. Close Possession simply means that the bailiff will be left on the premises to guard the goods as a “possession man” to ensure that the goods are kept safe and are not removed.

Immediate Removal

In this case the bailiff does not enter into any agreement with you but immediately removes the goods from the premises for sale by auction at the end of the first visit. Again, this is very rare and happens in less than 1 case in every 100. Legally, the bailiff’s role is to enforce a warrant or liability…..but if he did this he would not receive much money. The bailiff would much prefer to have the debt paid, with removal of the goods being a last resort. Very often, the mere threat of removal is enough to ensure that payment is made, either by borrowing money or using funds that are desperately needed for utility bills and other essential items.

To remove items from inside your home or business, the bailiff would first have to gain “peaceful entry”

 

Thanks for the reply but not really sure how this relates? In any case since the bailiff has already been inside the premises he would be able to gain access by default now wouldn't he?

[sgtbush]

just pointing out that goods can be levies upon and removed on the same day under a closed possesion if the levy is valid

[ploddertom]

 

The bailiff levied on an old TV and a compressor unit (which is the landlords as part of fixtures and fittings)

 

Was the compressor unit free standing? What sort of size is it?

[tomtubby]

Firstly, you MUST email the company to advise that the compressor unit is not owned by you and needs to be removed from the levy. You should also pay the small levy fee.

 

As many people on here are aware, I have a commercial business providing assistance to members of the public regarding bailiff issues. One serious area of concern has been the staggering abuse of the statutory fee scale since the recession but of equal importance........is the way in which people post complaints on various forums such as these but fail to make a FORMAL COMPLAINT in writing to the relevant local authorities.

 

It has to be remembered that the LA are "wholly responsible for the levy and fees charged by their agents" and furthermore, they have a duty to ENSURE that the fees charged are legal.

 

As I have said above, bailiff companies are ABUSING the statutory fee scale and the way in which this is being done is to charge an "attending to remove" fee at the SAME TIME as an initial visit. This is WRONG !!!

 

The regulations state that the purpose of the visit IS TO LEVY UPON GOODS. Interestingly, a Director of a bailiff company reminded me that strictly speaking, the regulations do not even provide for the bailiff to collect money and once again.....the purpose of the visit is to LEVY UPON GOODS to secure the debt.

 

What is so damned obvious is that the bailiff would need to first gain access INTO the premises to ascertain the following:

 

Whether the goods are exempt

Whether the goods are owned by a third party

Whether the goods are of little value

 

It would not be UNTIL entry is made that a bailiff would know whether the goods fall under the above.

 

If the goods are of sufficient value to levy....a Walking Possession is signed and payment arrangement made.

 

The NEXT PART IS IMPORTANT......

 

If a payment is made late under the Agreement, the bailiff may THEN legally be able to return back to the property and may then charge an "attending to remove fee". As the bailiff had PREVIOUSLY LEVIED he would know what type and size of removal vehicle he would need and accordingly, he would visit "equipped to carry out the REMOVAL!!!

 

For any of you "regulars" it may be worth saving this post.

 

PS: The same situation applies when a levy is made upon a vehicle as once again, the bailiff would need to visit FIRST before knowing whether the car is subject to finance, owned by someone else or....... whether it was a rusting heap that has bricks where once there were wheels!!!

[Jameswoods]

Firstly, you MUST email the company to advise that the compressor unit is not owned by you and needs to be removed from the levy. You should also pay the small levy fee.

 

As many people on here are aware, I have a commercial business providing assistance to members of the public regarding bailiff issues. One serious area of concern has been the staggering abuse of the statutory fee scale since the recession but of equal importance........is the way in which people post complaints on various forums such as these but fail to make a FORMAL COMPLAINT in writing to the relevant local authorities.

 

It has to be remembered that the LA are "wholly responsible for the levy and fees charged by their agents" and furthermore, they have a duty to ENSURE that the fees charged are legal.

 

As I have said above, bailiff companies are ABUSING the statutory fee scale and the way in which this is being done is to charge an "attending to remove" fee at the SAME TIME as an initial visit. This is WRONG !!!

 

The regulations state that the purpose of the visit IS TO LEVY UPON GOODS. Interestingly, a Director of a bailiff company reminded me that strictly speaking, the regulations do not even provide for the bailiff to collect money and once again.....the purpose of the visit is to LEVY UPON GOODS to secure the debt.

 

What is so damned obvious is that the bailiff would need to first gain access INTO the premises to ascertain the following:

 

Whether the goods are exempt

Whether the goods are owned by a third party

Whether the goods are of little value

 

It would not be UNTIL entry is made that a bailiff would know whether the goods fall under the above.

 

If the goods are of sufficient value to levy....a Walking Possession is signed and payment arrangement made.

 

The NEXT PART IS IMPORTANT......

 

If a payment is made late under the Agreement, the bailiff may THEN legally be able to return back to the property and may then charge an "attending to remove fee". As the bailiff had PREVIOUSLY LEVIED he would know what type and size of removal vehicle he would need and accordingly, he would visit "equipped to carry out the REMOVAL!!!

 

For any of you "regulars" it may be worth saving this post.

 

PS: The same situation applies when a levy is made upon a vehicle as once again, the bailiff would need to visit FIRST before knowing whether the car is subject to finance, owned by someone else or....... whether it was a rusting heap that has bricks where once there were wheels!!!

 

Thank you Tom, this confirms what I suspected, I did make a formal complaint to the CEO of the Council, I also mentioned to Newlyns that the goods they levied on were not mine in my first letter.

 

I'm happy to pay the £68 levy fee since well, we are a commercial business so hard to keep these guys out. I'm going to make the payment as full and final settlement and copy in both Newlyns and the council into my letters, I always send letters rather than emails, always recorded delivery.

 

I'll let you know how it goes.

 

Thanks again!

[hallowitch]

The bailiff levied on an old TV and a compressor unit (which is the landlords as part of fixtures and fittings)

 

 

im a bit lost here why would the op have to pay the levy fee if the goods levied belong to the landlord

[tomtubby]

HW..You are correct and my thinking behind the advise is that as the "levy fee" is quite small etc etc.

 

On reflection, I would advise sending a note to the bailiff to advise that the levy is not in any way in accordance with the National Standards for Enforcement Agents which states that local authorities should ensure that a levy is proportional to the debt and charges owed. You could instead insist that the only fee that should have been added is £24.50 for "attending to levy" (where no levy was made).

[sgtbush]

tomtubby

 

i read your answer with intrest, please could you clarifi what a CLOSE POSSESION is for me please

 

i am confused by your answer

Edited October 11, 2012 by ims21

[tomtubby]

Close Possession is something that is so very rare that I have NEVER even come across it.

Edited October 11, 2012 by ims21

[lamma]

I doubt you ever will (think of the logistics and costs ratios). Walking possession is to avoid all that.

[ploddertom]

Close possession is a throwback to Victorian times and even prior to that, where the Bailiff would leave a person to "guard" the seized goods. As the money for such a thing has not been increased then in the day of the Minimum Wage very few could afford to do it. As Lamma says above it is mostly now superseded.

[Jameswoods]

Hello Tom,

 

In answer to your old question the compressor unit is rather large and bolted down.

 

The council wrote back and say they don't have a problem with the bailiffs fees.

 

I'm going to reply now and say they have levied incorrectly and will offer them attending to levy fees. I will post up what the council said to me later on.

 

Thanks again.

[lamma]

This could be interesting. Please quote the council completely and verbatim - minus personal details of course.

[brassnecked]

Third party levy, if fixed installation is landlords property, this council are digging a very deep hole imho

[Jameswoods]

This could be interesting. Please quote the council completely and verbatim - minus personal details of course.

 

Sure thing....here is the response...

[Jameswoods]

Lets hope so...I will advise them in my next letter.

[lamma]

What exactly did you put in your last letter. We need to put their response in its proper context.

[Jameswoods]

What exactly did you put in your last letter. We need to put their response in its proper context.

 

Just the basic formal complaint to kick things off and included letters to Newlyns also, saying they have provided no breakdown etc.

 

"I hope this letter finds you well, I am writing to bring your attention to your instructed bailiffs, Newlyns; who are causing me much distress.

This is an official complaint and I would like to go on record to say that this company you are instructing are constantly caught trying to force and bully small business owners into paying fraudulent charges. I had no prior knowledge of this visit and fully aware of the regulations set in place to keep companies like Newlyns in line.

I have paid my business rates in full and not prepared to be threatened into paying charges I see as fraudulent. I would like to hear your response on this matter, in times like these bailiffs should be instructed to have some respect for small business owners. Had Newlyns attempted to charge me for a first visit or a levy that would have been fine, however they are adding on charges, which are unacceptable and extortionate, since you cannot charge levy and attendance to remove on the same visit."

 

Thoughts on my next response?