The sinister subtext behind the 'hard working family'

[abc123def]

An excellent blog post, thought it was worth a share here.

[fightingback99]

Listening to Cameron and Osbourne yesterday one of many points ranfg an alarm bell When they talked of the 'hard working people' the examples they gave were of a shopkeeper or someone who gets up at 5.30 to go to work for 6.00 , then works till 10pm. Or the office person who goes to work all day, nips home to see the family, tuck the kids into bed , then goes back to work to finish off the important things that couldn't wait till next day. Is this is the Tory definition of new acceptable working hours for everyone?.

 

Enjoyed the blog by the way.

[estellyn]

Listening to Cameron and Osbourne yesterday one of many points ranfg an alarm bell When they talked of the 'hard working people' the examples they gave were of a shopkeeper or someone who gets up at 5.30 to go to work for 6.00 , then works till 10pm. Or the office person who goes to work all day, nips home to see the family, tuck the kids into bed , then goes back to work to finish off the important things that couldn't wait till next day. Is this is the Tory definition of new acceptable working hours for everyone?.

 

Enjoyed the blog by the way.

 

hmmm, who's looking after the kids with mum and dad both working these types of hours?

[Dilizjo]

hmmm, who's looking after the kids with mum and dad both working these types of hours?

 

Exactly Estellyn, with child care costs high I suspect there are a lot of Latch key children out there, with youngsters (teenagers) having to pick their siblings up from school after they have finished their day, taking them home, feeding them etc...... is it any wonder there are a lot of youth issues in this country...

[LaughingGirl]

Exactly Estellyn, with child care costs high I suspect there are a lot of Latch key children out there, with youngsters (teenagers) having to pick their siblings up from school after they have finished their day, taking them home, feeding them etc...... is it any wonder there are a lot of youth issues in this country...

 

I completely agree. People want pre-war behaviour from kids, but without taking into account that the majority have a post-war home life. The area I live in has a very high amount of manufacturing, and the majority of the jobs are on shift patterns. With both parents on 6am-2pm then 2pm-10pm rotating shifts, a lot of parents don't have much choice but to rely on older siblings to get their younger children up and ready for school one week, and then fed and ready for bed the next. There is no childcare available for those hours, so they don't have much choice if both parents need to work. Historically, this area has a very high level of school absenteeism and anti-social behaviour and I don't think it's a co-incidence, somehow.

[count orlok]

Listening to Cameron and Osbourne yesterday one of many points ranfg an alarm bell When they talked of the 'hard working people' the examples they gave were of a shopkeeper or someone who gets up at 5.30 to go to work for 6.00 , then works till 10pm. Or the office person who goes to work all day, nips home to see the family, tuck the kids into bed , then goes back to work to finish off the important things that couldn't wait till next day. Is this is the Tory definition of new acceptable working hours for everyone?.

 

Enjoyed the blog by the way.

 

If all these hard working families weren't so greedy working so many hours, perhaps there'd be enough jobs to go around. Perhaps instead of vilifying those out of work they introduced compulsory job sharing so only those unable to work would be out of work. Win win, no unemployed but they'd still have the sick and disabled to blame for all the countries ills

 

Or even better, support those unable to work and share the work out amongst those able to and not blame the world's problems on the vulnerable.

[Nystagmite]

The government constantly go on about the "hard working family". But they always ignore the hard working carer on carers allowance and the single man earning minimum wage and not receiving much (or anything) in benefits. But the "hard working family" might be bringing home quite a bit in benefits.

[LaughingGirl]

If all these hard working families weren't so greedy working so many hours, perhaps there'd be enough jobs to go around. Perhaps instead of vilifying those out of work they introduced compulsory job sharing so only those unable to work would be out of work. Win win, no unemployed but they'd still have the sick and disabled to blame for all the countries ills

 

Or even better, support those unable to work and share the work out amongst those able to and not blame the world's problems on the vulnerable.

 

Oh dear God - keep your voice down...they might hear you!

[worried33]

if only pay did scale with hard work.

 

my highest paid job was most defenitly not my hardest job.

 

they a party for the rich but hiding it behind the term hard work so the public fall for it.

 

I like the points made that people who work that get child benefit, child tax credit etc. when they dont need it but simply because they can claim it are not seen as scroungers.

 

To make a point, when I used to work at a crisp factory, There was one particular guy who was to be blunt lazy. But he was a senior staff member so most people turned a blind eye, even the normal manager did. He was one of the most highest paid but for the majority of the time he was nowhere to be seen. Then one day the normal manager was off sick and a different manager took temporary charge, she had a different view point to the other manager and she didnt care for pay scales and what the job title was. That shift we was short staffed on manual workers and so she moved a bunch of machine techs (hgiher paid staff) to the manual jobs (other manager would never do this) and this guy was asked to cover my break by the manager. I took a 20 minute break and when I came back he looked like he was about to drop dead, completely covered in sweat, body shaking, and was very stressed asking me why I was gone so long. Normally someone would have to do what he did for a 12 hour shift and his pay was probably 4x what they would get paid. His higher pay was for his knowledge not for his hardworking capability. I was also a tech (covering the short staff) but I had previous experience doing the work as thats how I started out at the factory.

 

Normally higher pay comes with higher responsibility and higher skill set needed for a job, but in my view it has no relation to how hard a job is. But in my opinion when a job has more responsiblity it generally is also less physically demanding and because you constantly thinking about things the job is easier, because doing things like packing at a crisp factory needs a lot of willpower to sustain it out as not only is it physically harder but its also boring.

 

Also yes I am not surprised their examples of hard workers are people working slavery hours 12+ hours a day, in countries like france they would have riots if they had our working conditions.

Edited October 10, 2012 by worried33

[Nystagmite]

I like the points made that people who work that get child benefit, child tax credit etc. when they dont need it but simply because they can claim it are not seen as scroungers.

 

I used to know some people who claimed these weren't benefits; but were a tax rebate. They also claimed that they needed these "tax rebates" to put into their childs trust fund.

[worried33]

I used to know some people who claimed these weren't benefits; but were a tax rebate. They also claimed that they needed these "tax rebates" to put into their childs trust fund.

 

I wonder exactly how the public would support welfare cuts if child benefit was scrapped, pensioners no longer excluded and child tax credit capped at 17k income.

[Kitten1]

At the risk of being shot down in flames, my husband & I work bl00dy hard - long hours & both of our jobs are mentally & physically demanding. We get family allowance only. Nothing else. Nada. Zip. So the comments about how 'hardworking families must bring home a lot in benefits' is offensive to me.

 

We have 2 children, one of which is in full time school. Due to the long hours my husband works during the week, I work at weekends. We chose to have kids & so work hard to support our family. We break even on a good month.

 

Yes, the government need to make cuts somewhere. I'm not saying I agree with how they are doing it. But what is starting to get under my skin is the assumption that everyone who works gets a load of cash that we don't 'need' from benefits!

 

Wherever the government makes cuts somebody is goin to suffer somewhere.

[count orlok]

Lots of poor people work (or worked) very hard. Lots of rich people work hard. Some poor people don't work and some rich people don't work.

 

Only the poor seem to be suffering both the hard working and not so. You don't see any Hard working or not rich suffering, sorry.

 

Seems to me those suffering most are the poor whether they be hard working, not or unable. Even the cuts to tax credits hurt those on the lowest wages/hours.

Edited October 10, 2012 by count orlok

[worried33]

At the risk of being shot down in flames, my husband & I work bl00dy hard - long hours & both of our jobs are mentally & physically demanding. We get family allowance only. Nothing else. Nada. Zip. So the comments about how 'hardworking families must bring home a lot in benefits' is offensive to me.

 

We have 2 children, one of which is in full time school. Due to the long hours my husband works during the week, I work at weekends. We chose to have kids & so work hard to support our family. We break even on a good month.

 

Yes, the government need to make cuts somewhere. I'm not saying I agree with how they are doing it. But what is starting to get under my skin is the assumption that everyone who works gets a load of cash that we don't 'need' from benefits!

 

Wherever the government makes cuts somebody is goin to suffer somewhere.

 

no such assumption. I am well aware many people struggle whilst working.

 

by family allowance I assume you mean child tax allowance. please respect that you say it as if its very little, but for others that one single benefit is a lifeline, they have no job income to fall back on.

 

What I said was there is some people who claim benefits who dont need the money at all and is evidence by them putting into trust finds. I didnt mean to implicate everyone does that.

[Nystagmite]

What I said was there is some people who claim benefits who dont need the money at all and is evidence by them putting into trust finds. I didnt mean to implicate everyone does that.

 

Same. I know people who can't afford to do that at all.

[Kitten1]

I'm not sure what its proper name is now - it shows on my bank statement as chb so assume its child benefit. It was called family allowance when I was a kid. We aren't entitled to any form of tax credit whatsoever.

[debt4get]

the whole system is wrong, there are plenty of hard working families up and down the country, when i first moved to my area everyone 100% apart from the sick, ill and disabled worked...and worked hard, manual jobs, mining, now there are no jobs except 'service industry' work, low paid, which makes people reliant on 'extra benefits' ie WTC, CTC, HB, CT, and the list goes on...what is needed for everyone is jobs.. end of, with a wage that is high enough not to have to claim all these extra 'benefits' in order to survive..i do not believe my community became inherently lazy over time it is the lack of opportunities plus low wages that are root of the problem.

I also hear the argument that if there are a lack of jobs then move!! get on your bike...unfortunately there is only so much room in the SE of England and they are already put up the 'full to capacity' sign...we need a govt that is going to have to do some really hard thinking and planning, and the bunch of incompetents we have now, and the bunch 'in waiting' have little to no idea of how to overcome these problems....personally i am going to start digging my garden and grow my own food, because if this goes on much longer than starvation for a lot of people will i fear become the norm

[osdset]

What a load of cobblers spouted from the mouths of people that have no concept of what hard work really means, doing some longish hours shaking hands and kissing babies isn't my idea of graft, having long lunches at expensive restaurants isn't graft, jetting off around the world on 'fact finding' missions isn't graft. None of them know what work is because none of them have actually had to do some. Patronising rubbish.

Edited October 14, 2012 by osdset

[antone]

i do not believe my community became inherently lazy over time it is the lack of opportunities plus low wages that are root of the problem.

 

Quite. Plus, if people on, say, JSA are claiming because they're lazy, then isn't it strange that the number of lazy people in the country appears to be cyclical, and tracks pretty closely to the cycles of the economy?

 

Have to be a bit careful pointing that out, though. Sooner or later some politician is going to argue that the 2008 crash was actually caused by a sudden epidemic of laziness amongst the working class.

[worried33]

I'm not sure what its proper name is now - it shows on my bank statement as chb so assume its child benefit. It was called family allowance when I was a kid. We aren't entitled to any form of tax credit whatsoever.

 

earnings too high?

 

child tax credit has quite a generous earning threshold.

 

I hope I am not been rude but the 2 posts on here stating I work and struggle not entitled to this and that have no story behind them.

[Mother's Little Helper]

At the risk of being shot down in flames, my husband & I work bl00dy hard - long hours & both of our jobs are mentally & physically demanding. We get family allowance only. Nothing else. Nada. Zip. So the comments about how 'hardworking families must bring home a lot in benefits' is offensive to me.

 

We have 2 children, one of which is in full time school. Due to the long hours my husband works during the week, I work at weekends. We chose to have kids & so work hard to support our family. We break even on a good month.

 

Yes, the government need to make cuts somewhere. I'm not saying I agree with how they are doing it. But what is starting to get under my skin is the assumption that everyone who works gets a load of cash that we don't 'need' from benefits!

 

Wherever the government makes cuts somebody is goin to suffer somewhere.

 

 

I think quite a few of the comments on this thread pander to exactly what the government wants; to set one part of the polutation against another part. If you can identify yourself with the "strivers" or "hard working family" and are constantly told it is those who do not fall into this catagory who are the reason why the country is failing, gradually more and more people will be influence by this - it has happened before. I too think we needed to make cuts and we almost certainly, after 60+ years needed to overhaul the benefits system. However, it is our benefits system and, other than saying it would be sorted out we have been given no say in what the priorities for the changes are - government knows best.

 

When the Conservatives where going on and on about people whose blinds where drawn when others go to work I felt very undermined - and I'm retired! How about really showing who these shirkers are - of course they couldn't have been working a late shift, have cared for an elderly or infirm parent all night or be genuinely incapacitated could they -no, we should point them out for all to see. How about going round, early in the morning and marking their houses ... perhaps a yellow star would do the trick.

 

What we really need our government to remember is today's striver could be made redundant, become too ill to work or, yes it could happen, become rich. We really should not let any party make us see one group of people as good and one as - well those who were to become the receptacle for blame in the 1940s were seen as vermin eventually and the path to that sort of thinking started with a man who seemed to be offering a reasonable way out of their problems to a sinking economy.

[Bang!]

The entire 'hard worker' role model is a con from the contemporary establishments who benefit. Starting as far back as it was more difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than a camel to pass through the eye of a needle - you just had to work hard to book your seat looking down on your employers burning in the basement.

 

Communism happily adopted the old religious con with the concept of 'Udarnik'.

 

http://Http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udarnik

 

And now the tories roll out the same tripe.

 

But all non central establishments need their scapegoats, no better example than Orwell's Goldstein - but written in 1948 that national nemesis had to have been prompted by hitler's jews.

 

The commies had their gulags to house their unwanted lumpen proletariat as enemies of the state.

 

So now the UK has its unemployed & disabled to blame, an easy finger to point as they are mutually exclusive with the hard workers needed for the UKs next great five year plan.

 

Anyway, disableds can't put up much of a fight, & although hitler gassed many for disabilities as mild as deafness - no one really pushes this as hard as the jewish attrocity as disableds have a lower profile and by the very nature of disabilty are often less able to defend themselves.

 

So if cuts need to be made, why did tax fall from 50% to 45% for top line UK?

 

Why are G4S getting loadsa government contracts after screwing up on the Olympics (and did they still get their full fee?). Might a cynic say it was an obviously entirely unrelated G4S £1.5m donation to a political party? So when looking after you mates, it's handy to have 'all in it together' lines as well as scapegoats.

 

Returning to the 'hard workers', there are three types.

 

1. Self employed (including those mainly commission earning

2. Those who love their job, & do it without even feeling they work hard.

3 Suckers (who if really hard working can easily make the transition to 1.)

 

There are also the pseudo hard workers who use it as an excuse to pontificate - which is so easy for even someone thick as $hit, given the present govenment/tabloid back up material. In the past the same types would be identifying witches, pointing out gypsies & jews, or fingering those clearly responsible for 'thought crime'.

 

Anyway, I'm disgusted with the current situation in the UK.

 

I cant see why in a slump its the unemployed's fault for having no jobs.

 

I cant see why foodbanks are expanding in a developed country.

 

I cant see why disabled folk whose doctors may have taken months to diagnose problems before issuing a sick line - can be deemed fit in 30 mins by a nurse.

 

I can't see why pressganging people to work for free during high unemployment serves any purpose other than masking true unemployment figures and perhaps even to be the sweetener to prompt a political donation from the companies who benefit. It's amazing how those who rant on about immigrants 'taking jobs' don't seem as bothered by these jobs lost to de facto unpaid labour.

[Bang!]

The UK is now a nation run for the benefit of potentially political funding companies & not people.

 

Sadly even many of the slow of thinking poorly paid/unwaged have signed up for the suckerline propaganda.

[Nystagmite]

So if cuts need to be made, why did tax fall from 50% to 45% for top line UK?

 

I think they also said it's going to fall to 40%? This is what I don't get - why can the government afford to do this when they claim the welfare bill is too high?

[estellyn]

I think they also said it's going to fall to 40%? This is what I don't get - why can the government afford to do this when they claim the welfare bill is too high?

 

Well its 'cause if the 'clever rich people' have to pay too much tax, they'll move away to a different country and we'll be bereft.

 

Personally I say good riddance, let them leave - there are plenty of smart people around who haven't had the benefit of family and school connections to get ahead in their careers who could as good, most probably a better job than those currently in the job - and would be happy to pay the tax.