Pinnacle/First National, GE Money

[ajs444]

Took out £3455 loan for timeshare in 1991 which included add on of £359 for payment protection, which only ran for 5 years.

Understand that company changed to GE Money October 2005 and collected payments on this account, which we finally cleared in July2007.

As we never claimed on the PPI and we were not informed of alternative cover at point of sale I wrote to GE Money claiming back the PPI who have now responded with a flat refusal and teling us to contact the sales people direct.

They also say they have no connection with GE Capital Bank who were fined for mis-selling, and also state that they were not under the jurisdiction of the FSA at the time of sale.

They say that if I have any complaints that I should contact the sellers and ultimately the Finance and Leasing Association as the agreement was prior to January 2005.

Surely if GE Money were still collecting payments on the account and the PPI accounted for approx. 10% of the payments then they have an obligation to us to deal with the stuation???

[ajs444]

Anybody help???????

[hellhasnofury]

Took out £3455 loan for timeshare in 1991 which included add on of £359 for payment protection, which only ran for 5 years.

Understand that company changed to GE Money October 2005 and collected payments on this account, which we finally cleared in July2007.

As we never claimed on the PPI and we were not informed of alternative cover at point of sale I wrote to GE Money claiming back the PPI who have now responded with a flat refusal and teling us to contact the sales people direct.

They also say they have no connection with GE Capital Bank who were fined for mis-selling, and also state that they were not under the jurisdiction of the FSA at the time of sale.

They say that if I have any complaints that I should contact the sellers and ultimately the Finance and Leasing Association as the agreement was prior to January 2005.

Surely if GE Money were still collecting payments on the account and the PPI accounted for approx. 10% of the payments then they have an obligation to us to deal with the stuation???

 

Hello and welcome to the forum,

 

Who was the original lender and are they still in business??? You go after the one who sold you the ppi.

 

Now as regarding ge money, they have obviously bought the account or may have been in the background all along, you need to do some homework on them and what part they play:rolleyes:

 

If they bought the account they have taken on the responsibilies of the original creditor, but ge money are not known for being helpful:mad:

 

Personally I would be sending them a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and a request under section 77/78 for a copy of the original credit agreement. If the account closed in 2007 they must by law still have it. So it would be interesting to see what they come up with.

 

I am having a bit of a ding dong with ge at present, regarding buying up accounts and not having the credit agreement, which is not good business practice to say the least.

 

Full S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) for ppi cost £10

 

for the credit agreement you need letter N cost £1

 

Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner

 

If you do send these, send everything recorded delivery, and check on the royal mail website when the got them and start counting the days, there are statutory timescales for both.

 

If you need further assistance shout

Edited September 24, 2008 by hellhasnofury

[ajs444]

Cheers HHNF, already have copy of agreement, company that sold timeshare cleared out of Tenerife and are now based in Cyprus.

The only way I can see me claiming is that not advised of alternate PPI schemes, also my wife was named first on account as I was not in full time employment and had been retired on ill health.

The agreement looks pretty water tight to me.

[hellhasnofury]

Cheers HHNF, already have copy of agreement, company that sold timeshare cleared out of Tenerife and are now based in Cyprus.

The only way I can see me claiming is that not advised of alternate PPI schemes, also my wife was named first on account as I was not in full time employment and had been retired on ill health.

The agreement looks pretty water tight to me.

 

Hello ajs,

 

Who was the original loan company???????

[ajs444]

Original Loan Company was First National

Vendor was Paradise Timeshare LTD

Now Paradise Resorts (Cyprus) Ltd.

[ajs444]

Hellhasnofury, any advice?

[Paintball]

Hi ajs

 

I believe First National are in business and as the lender, you should be sending the SAR to them. Provide them with as much information as possible as to date and type of loan.

 

HTH

[ajs444]

First National were taken over on 4th October 2005.

I do not need a SAR as I have been given all the paperwork by GE Money and have been advised by them to pursue Paradise Club directly as they sold the policy, even though First national collected contributions.

[alanalana]

Hello ajs,

 

Took out £3455 loan for timeshare in 1991 which included add on of £359 for payment protection, which only ran for 5 years.

Understand that company changed to GE Money October 2005 and collected payments on this account, which we finally cleared in July2007.

 

The payment protection would probably have only run for 5 years but you can be pretty sure the interest on it would run for the life of the loan. If GE were collecting that insurance after taking over First National then I believe you should chase GE for the refund. You will have a fight on your hands but it is worth a shot.

 

this is the FSA register. It allows you to search for company information held on the register it may be of use. I believe if you chase a company in Cyprus you are going to get nowhere.

 

FSA Register

 

in the firm name type the name and hit submit.

 

I did First National and it points to GE. If they have taken over First National then IMO GE should be dealing with your claim even though it was years ago the fact they took payments from you I would suggest means they have responsibility to deal with any complaint about mis-selling.

 

Hope this helps a bit:)

 

aa

[Paintball]

Hello ajs,

 

 

 

The payment protection would probably have only run for 5 years but you can be pretty sure the interest on it would run for the life of the loan. If GE were collecting that insurance after taking over First National then I believe you should chase GE for the refund. You will have a fight on your hands but it is worth a shot.

 

this is the FSA register. It allows you to search for company information held on the register it may be of use. I believe if you chase a company in Cyprus you are going to get nowhere.

 

FSA Register

 

in the firm name type the name and hit submit.

 

I did First National and it points to GE. If they have taken over First National then IMO GE should be dealing with your claim even though it was years ago the fact they took payments from you I would suggest means they have responsibility to deal with any complaint about mis-selling.

 

Hope this helps a bit:)

 

aa

 

aa, that's a good point you make about the collection of interest and worth checking out. I think it would give GE some form of liability, but they will most certainly put up a fight!!

 

I've given this a lot of thought today, and came to the conclusion that it will be worth giving it a go in chasing GE ... I had even thought of contacting a Financial Adviser friend to 'pick his brains' on the liability aspect.

[alanalana]

Hello painty and ajs,

 

aa, that's a good point you make about the collection of interest and worth checking out. I think it would give GE some form of liability, but they will most certainly put up a fight!!

 

I've given this a lot of thought today, and came to the conclusion that it will be worth giving it a go in chasing GE ... I had even thought of contacting a Financial Adviser friend to 'pick his brains' on the liability aspect.

 

two agree it is worth pursuing GE and give them a fight. If they have some of your money even if it is only interest on the PPI then it is worth a shout to reclaim. Not just the interest but the PPI as well IMO:)

 

If you need more assistance just post and I am sure help will be forthcoming from the forum.

 

aa

[Paintball]

aa, point of financial law here (thinking/pondering) ... if GE are collecting the interest payments on the debt, then I wonder whether they're totally liable for the whole debt and therefore, any potential mis-selling. They must surely realise that in puchasing a debt that they accept any liability or complaint circa the original sale.

 

Hmmmm?

[alanalana]

Hey painty,

 

aa, point of financial law here (thinking/pondering) ... if GE are collecting the interest payments on the debt, then I wonder whether they're totally liable for the whole debt and therefore, any potential mis-selling. They must surely realise that in puchasing a debt that they accept any liability or complaint circa the original sale.

 

Not fully certain on this point:confused: (Legal advice sought at this point) But I would suggest that if there is a transfer of business then everything is transferred as in my case where Direct Line Financial Services was transferred to RBS and RBS Staff were not aware of it or hiding the fact.

 

Eventually RBS started dealing with all my claims:eek:

 

Now all with the FOS:-D

 

aa

[Paintball]

Transfer of debt = profit - good! Complaint on the part of the customer for mis-selling = bad ...

 

... result, denial of liability on the part of the 'debt purchaser' .... hmmmm

 

They want to have their cake and eat it, n'est-ce-pas?

[ajs444]

Thanks for advice AA and Paintball,

Policy ran for 5 years though cost was "lumped on at start" and interest was paid from that date till it was paid off early in July 2007, premiums being about 10% of the loan.

Basically they say that their internal complaints procedure have been exhausted and I should contact the Finance and Leasing Association as the agreement was before 2005 and not under jurisdiction of Financial Ombudsman..

[alanalana]

Hello ajs,

 

A couple of points which may carry some weight with your argument.

 

Basically they say that their internal complaints procedure have been exhausted and I should contact the Finance and Leasing Association as the agreement was before 2005 and not under jurisdiction of Financial Ombudsman..

 

Yes original may have been before 14 Jan 2005 when the FSA took charge as the regulator of financial institutions. But.....

 

First National were taken over on 4th October 2005.

So GE took over First National after the FSA took control so IMO they are required to be compliant with the FSA rules as they took on First National when the FSA rules were in place.

Just a thought. I am sure painty will probably have some idea on this.

aa

 

 

[Paintball]

Hello ajs,

 

A couple of points which may carry some weight with your argument.

 

 

 

Yes original may have been before 14 Jan 2005 when the FSA took charge as the regulator of financial institutions. But.....

 

First National were taken over on 4th October 2005.

 

So GE took over First National after the FSA took control so IMO they are required to be compliant with the FSA rules as they took on First National when the FSA rules were in place.

 

Just a thought. I am sure painty will probably have some idea on this.

 

aa

 

 

Ha! Got 'em ...

[lilal]

sorry aa i think you will find it was oct 2004:(

[alanalana]

hello lilal,

 

can you please point me to a link or where this information came from.

 

 

aa

[alanalana]

just to add to the above post.

 

 

Friday, 10th October, 2008

Managing your account

The First National brand is part of GE Money, which was launched in the UK on 4th October 2005.GE Money has been designed to offer you a greater choice of financial services products than ever before.

from this link...........

http://www.firstnat.co.uk/customer/home/index.htm

 

aa

[lilal]

sorry aa i was going on my agreement which was first national /ge oct 04:oops:. however first national were taken over in 2003 by ge, but as i read it didn,t become part of ge ,trading under ge until 2005.

https://www.gemhl.co.uk/fnol/unsecure/AboutFirstnational.aspx .and you beat me to it:)

[ajs444]

Well tried again with the points raised, and they have come back saying PPI was a problem that had to be raised with the vendor (Paradise Group) They say they have exhausted their procedures and if I want to proceed I have to go through the Finance & Leasing Association, due to the historical nature of my complaint it would not fall under the FSA.

[alanalana]

Hello ajs,

 

question have you tried contacting the Financial Ombudsman Service about this problem?

 

aa

[ajs444]

Hi alanalana, looks might that might be the only option, as I seem to be hitting my head off a brick wall with this lot!