lowells bankruptcy pertition *** dismissed ***

[steve221977]

Lowells are trying to extort £850 out of my wife for an old vodafone bill

 

the actual amount she owes is £350 and its been in dispute since 2008.

 

She out of the blue got papers through the post saying a date had been fixed for her hearing at the county court for wed 10th october 2012.

 

we contacted them saying it was in dispute and that they had not served a statutory demand

 

after much going back and forth they said they would adjurn the court date while they investigate

 

I asked that they put that in writing or email which they said they would do.

 

having not received anything

 

I contacted them on friday to find that the court date was still going ahead.

 

I contacted the court who told me I was now out of time to do anything and my wife must attend court

I know realise lowells were just stalling.

 

I have been in contact with national debt helpline they have advised that I get the debt below £750.

and that way they cant make her bankrupt

 

they said that buys time to then fight it via oft and offcom.

 

With court fee's the current balance is about £1250.

 

so I have got together about £600.

 

to get it below the £750.

 

threshold and today tried to pay it and they refused saying it had gon to litigation and the litigation dept was closed.

 

so my question is if I phone up 8am monday morning to make a payment of £600 can they again refuse it forcing a court appearance?

[Bandit127]

This thread was started on MSE. OP is defending a SD/(petition?) on his wife and is trying to pay sufficient to reduce the amount owing to less than £750. OC has locked the account so is frustrating his efforts.

 

Hearing is on Wednesday.

 

Ideally OP can make payments and submit evidence of the same for the hearing Wednesday and avoid penalty.

 

Please advise.

 

Original thread on MSE:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4217717

[Bandit127]

Steve.

 

Please post up the particulars of claim from the court papers. Word for word. This will help the experts advise.

 

Thanks.

[citizenB]

So was a Stat demand not actually served on Steve ?

 

How the hell can he make an attempt to set aside, if no documents were received ?

[steve221977]

the papers are headed "Creditors bankruptcy petition on failure to comply with a statutory demand for a liquidated sum payable immediately"

 

It then goes on to quote name address etc

 

and says as follows "[the debtors centre of main interest is in england and wales. The debtor is resident in england and wales. I am presenting this petition to this county court because (g) rule 6.9A applies [and within 6 months immediately preceding its presentation (g) the debtor has not carried on business in england and wales but has resided in england and wales and for the longest of the period during which the debtor was resident in england and wales within that 6 month period, the debtor resided in the district of this county court]]

 

3 The debtor is truly indebted to us in the aggregate sum of £846.75

 

4 The above mentioned debt is for a liquidated sum payable immediately and the debtor appears to be unable to pay it

 

5 on 15th june 2012 a statutory demand was served upon the debtor by substituted service in respect of the above mentioned debt. to the best of my knowledge and belief the demand has neither been complied with nor set aside in accordance with the rules and no application to set it aside is outstanding.

 

6 we do not nor does any person on our behalf hold any security on the debtors estate or any part thereof for the payment of the above mentioned sum.

 

it then goes on to list the date and time of hearing.

[steve221977]

exactly;(

[citizenB]

Ah, so they are claiming a Stat Demand WAS served - do they say how.. post - or by process server ?

 

If you did indeed receive one of these, it would have been at that time that you needed to have set it aside.

 

If you didnt receive it, then I am not quite sure what you need to do in order to prevent the hearing going ahead. Your thread has been flagged for site team.

[Bandit127]

Steve. I don't want to tread on the toes of the experts here (and I am well out of my depth on Bankruptcy rules).

 

But I am going to offer you my thoughts on what I would do as a Plan B just in case the site team can't help you in time for Wednesday.

 

You should phone the litigation team in the morning and offer to make a lump sum payment and also offer a sum in monthly payment that will pay the debt off. You will do this in return for them discontinuing (hopefully) or "staying" if not discontinuing. If they insist that costs are included in the sum now, I think you have no choice but to agree.

 

I am pretty sure they will not accept anything that does not include a proposal to pay the full amount.

 

Time is very tight here and I think you have run out of time to submit a defence (I think 7 days is required for bankruptcy proceedings).

 

You have to somehow get "litigation" to stop the hearing on Wednesday.

 

I truly hope the guys here can give you a Plan A - or improve on my Plan B. But if not, I think the above is at least a plan.

[steve221977]

Steve. I don't want to tread on the toes of the experts here (and I am well out of my depth on Bankruptcy rules).

 

But I am going to offer you my thoughts on what I would do as a Plan B just in case the site team can't help you in time for Wednesday.

 

You should phone the litigation team in the morning and offer to make a lump sum payment and also offer a sum in monthly payment that will pay the debt off. You will do this in return for them discontinuing (hopefully) or "staying" if not discontinuing. If they insist that costs are included in the sum now, I think you have no choice but to agree.

 

I am pretty sure they will not accept anything that does not include a proposal to pay the full amount.

 

Time is very tight here and I think you have run out of time to submit a defence (I think 7 days is required for bankruptcy proceedings).

 

You have to somehow get "litigation" to stop the hearing on Wednesday.

 

I truly hope the guys here can give you a Plan A - or improve on my Plan B. But if not, I think the above is at least a plan.

 

Cheers Mate if they accept £550. tomorrow its not a problem as it will then be below the £750, threshold for bankruptcy.

 

If they dont if I have read the petition right we can fight on a few fronts firstly they should never of gone down this road as the amount is in dispute and they have never complied with our request for a copy of the letter of assignment for the debt or sent any other proof that we owed them. Second we could never set aside the statutory demand as we were never aware of it and the first we knew of the hearing was when we received the paperwork. Thirdly when we got the paperwork we contacted them to say if they billed us for the true amount owed we would pay without further delay, they led us to believe the hearing would be adjurned while they investigated and would confirm in writing we waited for that confirmation and when this didnt come through we phoned them on friday this is when we found out the hearing was still going ahead meaning it was to late to raise a defence. I believe they stalled things knowing what they were doing as they now need to go for bankruptcy to guarantee their costs. I'm hoping if the hearing does go ahead the judge allows my wife to put forward her side of the story and throws it out as they have at best acted shabbily at worst criminally. Also in the paperwork it says they have taken the action as they believe my wife is unable to pay this is clearly not true as we tried paying yesterday and will be trying again tomorrow.

[steve221977]

Could really do with others thoughts on my last post as I'm probably barking totally up the wrong tree so come on people get reading and thinking pleeeeeaaaassssssse;(

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

Getting the debt below £750 won't necessarily stop a bankruptcy order being made. The £750 limit applies at the date the petition was issued, not the date it is heard. It is perfectly possible to be bankrupted for less than £750, so I wouldn't go with that as a plan.

[steve221977]

Getting the debt below £750 won't necessarily stop a bankruptcy order being made. The £750 limit applies at the date the petition was issued, not the date it is heard. It is perfectly possible to be bankrupted for less than £750, so I wouldn't go with that as a plan.

 

Cheers Mate;( I'm at my wits end with this now I had enough to get it below £750.00 dont know what were going to do now

[steve221977]

Getting the debt below £750 won't necessarily stop a bankruptcy order being made. The £750 limit applies at the date the petition was issued, not the date it is heard. It is perfectly possible to be bankrupted for less than £750, so I wouldn't go with that as a plan.

 

Cheers Mate;( I'm at my wits end with this now I had enough to get it below £750.00 dont know what were going to do now

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

If you pay the £550 you will certainly get an adjournment to to give you time to raise the remainder of the petition debt. How long would you need to raise the other £300? You only have to be concerned about the £850 petition debt at the moment, not the costs. You cannot be bankrupted if you have paid the petition debt off in full; it is likely a costs order would also be made against you but that would not form part of the petition debt.

[steve221977]

If you pay the £550 you will certainly get an adjournment to to give you time to raise the remainder of the petition debt. How long would you need to raise the other £300? You only have to be concerned about the £850 petition debt at the moment, not the costs. You cannot be bankrupted if you have paid the petition debt off in full; it is likely a costs order would also be made against you but that would not form part of the petition debt.

 

you have now made me happy;) I could have the other £300 by the end of the month

[steve221977]

If you pay the £550 you will certainly get an adjournment to to give you time to raise the remainder of the petition debt. How long would you need to raise the other £300? You only have to be concerned about the £850 petition debt at the moment, not the costs. You cannot be bankrupted if you have paid the petition debt off in full; it is likely a costs order would also be made against you but that would not form part of the petition debt.

 

you have now made me happy;) I could have the other £300 by the end of the month

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

Absolutely no problem then. You should even be able to get Lowell to agree to, say, a 2 month adjournment on payment of the £550. Even if you don't, you will have no trouble persuading the judge to do just that. Good luck!

[steve221977]

Absolutely no problem then. You should even be able to get Lowell to agree to, say, a 2 month adjournment on payment of the £550. Even if you don't, you will have no trouble persuading the judge to do just that. Good luck!

 

In your experience mate can Lowells refuse to accept our payment of £550 tomorrow? as I think they are going to try and get us to pay the costs they have shelled out.

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

They cannot insist on you paying the costs in order to avoid a bankruptcy order being made. The only relevant amount when it comes to deciding whether a bankruptcy order should be made or not is the petition debt, i.e. £850. I can't believe they would refuse to take a payment of £550 with a promise of the remaining £300 being paid within a month; if they do, just make sure you turn up at the hearing and explain that to the judge, they will get absolutely slaughtered.

[42man]

If it was me in your position, then I would seek an adjournment, ready to prepare for a dismissal of the petition....you say that the account has been in dispute since 2008. And I can imagine that the dispute would probably take the debt below the £750 threshold. The payment to reduce the amount may not stop the bankruptcy and you may be hit with a big costs bill. The Office Of Fair Trading will be very interested to hear of your story so it is imperative that you do tell them. It seems that they haven't served the demand (it should say on an affadavit from the process server how they had attempted service)....Have you had any problems with the postal service around the time they state the demand was served ? Are any of the houses next to you empty or were at the time of the demand being 'served'....Do you have a communial entrance / postbox ?

[42man]

And Lowells will not be reasonable at this stage. You will need from 6.19 with an accompanying affadavit (where you can state that the stat demand has not been served and fine details of the dispute from 2008). The affadavit will need to be 'sworn in' either at the court where your hearing is (or at a local solicitor which costs usually about £5 - Central London courts charge £12 I believe). Unfortunately you are running short of time. When they said they would adjourn did they put that in writing ? (probably not) Your wife must attend and request an adjournment to give you a little more time to get your 6.19 together.

If you have evidence that your dispute from 2008 is valid (excessive charges would probably take it below £750 perhaps ?, or do you have any recourse against Vodafone such as a refund ?). DOn't rely on Ofcom or the OFT actually physically fighting it for you....but you should make them aware.

[42man]

Have you been to see/talk to a solicitor ? You may find some that will give you a free consultation period....

[steve221977]

Thanx guys it looks like all is sorted I have today made a payment and told them the rest will be paid by the end of the month, they have said they will seek an adjurnment on wednesday where we are going to seek a dismissal as the case should never have got to there in the first place. I left them this morning telling them I would not be paying theyre costs and I'm only paying the £850 as at this stage I see very little option and that if I dont hear by email that they intend to dismiss the case I will be making the court aware of their tactics to date.

 

I will give you an update when I know more;)

[42man]

You should also make them aware of your dispute......they are using stat demands as a debt collection tool (it worked on you). You must also make the OFT know about this also

[42man]

You should ring the court to check whether the adjournment has been actioned ? Otherwise do you have it in writing from Lowells that they will adjourn ?